Opinion Criticize your own party/side

[Jack V Savage]

I saw you get called that word in another thread, so that's why I suggested it. Maybe I don't have a good grasp of what insults occur in what contexts. I've never felt compelled to call someone autistic as an insult, meaning I probably don't understand the impulse behind it. What can I do but decry my incapacity in this regard? Woe, oh woe.

It's probably healthier not to keep up with these kinds of things (trends in insults by edgy teenagers).

 

[brothir]

It's probably healthier not to keep up with these kinds of things (trends in insults by edgy teenagers).

I suspect the real horror of it is that it's actually trends amongst edgy man-children. Though teenagers would have an excuse, at least.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The real irony here is that ObamaCare is a conservative idea. It's a watered down version of RomneyCare.

ObamaCare isn't great but it's better than nothing, and it shouldn't be removed, it should be improved. If you surgically quote politicians over the past century you'd get a pretty clear majority of bipartisan support for it. You'd have a really hard time surgically putting together a similar consensus against.

The ACA included a big expansion of Medicaid, plus the exchanges, plus subsidies to help people purchase insurance on the exchanges, with the subsidies (more than) paid for by a tax increase on high earners. Not the kind of thing that conservatives would ever support. Remember the context for conservatives providing some support for something similar. Bill Clinton was pushing a single-payer plan developed by Hillary, and there was a widespread expectation that it would be successful. Some conservative think tankers came up with an alternative that they could push as a theoretical alternative that had some similarities. But Republicans have really never had a plan that they could actually unite behind because fundamentally, the idea of raising taxes to subsidize health insurance for people who can't afford it is anathema to them. They also boxed themselves into a corner opposing the ACA from the left rhetorically, leaving them no real possibility of coming up with a plan that wouldn't just reduce coverage. We all remember Trump continually promising a plan that was going to come out at ever-moving but always close dates, but even before Trump, Republicans were pulling that same thing ("we're working on a plan, and it will come out any day now").

The plan Trump settled on (that barely failed) was just "cut taxes for rich people and remove millions from their insurance."

 

[blaseblase]

Why do you keep saying that? I have never disagreed with making it permanent. I've called for it for years. And I don't disagree with most Democrats about it. I disagree with Manchin. I've also corrected you on this position before so there's no way it's an honest mistake.

Your posting history speaks for itself. You were outraged when I criticized it for not being permanent. You're attempting to save face and change your opinion after being called out.

"Finally some answers" = me reposting something I've posted before. And the question isn't whether you agree with me; it's where I disagree with Democrats. Also, most Democrats do care a lot about money in politics, and it was part of the platform in 2020 (where I was getting their positions). And you're making up a position about "the poor who got scammed by said (???) corruption." Why do insist on lying about my views? I think I give you a lot to disagree with with what I actually say.

Direct me to the policy Dems have ever attempted to pass to get money out of politics. Some progressives have sworn off corporate money but the apparatus as a whole does not support it .

 

[Mr Holmes]

The real irony here is that ObamaCare is a conservative idea. It's a watered down version of RomneyCare.

ObamaCare isn't great but it's better than nothing, and it shouldn't be removed, it should be improved. If you surgically quote politicians over the past century you'd get a pretty clear majority of bipartisan support for it. You'd have a really hard time surgically putting together a similar consensus against.

We finally found some common ground.

 

[blaseblase]

What do you disagree with left-wing nutters on?

Prioritizing identity politics over economic left wing policy

Cancel culture

Censoring misinformation

Trans women competing in women's sports.

And your disagreement was getting money out of politics <45>

 

[brothir]

Direct me to the policy Dems have ever attempted to pass to get money out of politics

I took a look at the Citizen's United case, which led me to BCRA, where I found:

In 1992, President George H. W. Bush vetoed a bill passed by the Democratic Congress that would have, among other things, restricted the use of soft money.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Your posting history speaks for itself.

Exactly. On many, many occasions, going back years, I have advocated for that view. I have never argued against it. You have on multiple occasions misrepresented my position, and I've corrected you many times. What is the point of that?

Here's one relevant thread: https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...uded-in-omnibus-will-expire-for-2022.4161733/

You were outraged when I criticized it for not being permanent. You're attempting to save face and change your opinion after being called out.

No, you're lying about this too.

Direct me to the policy Dems have ever attempted to pass to get money out of politics. Some progressives have sworn off corporate money but the apparatus as a whole does not support it .

Obvious example is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text. But there are many others. At any rate, it's in the platform, it's talked about a lot, etc. I think it's a dumb waste of time. You agree with Democrats on it. Fine. It doesn't surprise me, as I don't think highly of your reasoning skills (and you don't seem that interested in policy anyway--also not surprising that you were unaware any of the many instances of this). Not relevant to the point.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Abortion is the best and cheapest way to stop the spread of the dregs. Using it as a subject to rile up your religious base is one thing, actually trying to outlaw it is silly.

 

[blaseblase]

I took a look at the Citizen's United case, which led me to BCRA, where I found:

That was before the neoliberal takeover. I would have been a Democrat back then before the Clinton era.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Prioritizing identity politics over economic left wing policy

Cancel culture

Censoring misinformation

Trans women competing in women's sports.

And your disagreement was getting money out of politics

"Cancel culture" is a meaningless term, and who is censoring misinformation? I'm pointing to the fact that there's this dynamic with the nutter left, where if they criticize mainstream liberals, it's because they are brave truthtellers going against their own side, while if mainstream liberals criticize them, it's because they are hacks. There's an inconsistent grouping going on. So my question was, like, about the Bernie nuts.

Also, I listed many disagreements in addition to the obsession with money in politics.

 

[brothir]

That was before the neoliberal takeover. I would have been a Democrat back then before the Clinton era.

What changed then?

 

[brothir]

Abortion is the best and cheapest way to stop the spread of the dregs.

Are you a Nazi?

 

[Mr Holmes]

I am not a Democrat, but I am left wing. What annoys me the most about the Democratic party is that they will go all in on virtue signaling about how socially progressive they are to avoid doing anything economically progressive. It's like the complete opposite of FDR.

Its this weird blend of neo-lib corporatism and woke virtue signaling. We have run away inflation but you can take comfort in knowing we have the 1st female sec of treasury.

 

[Jack V Savage]

What changed then?

Nothing really. Democrats actually won a presidential election (remember that in America, it is almost impossible to have an ideological extremist president), and the portion of the left that opposes any actual action got mad about it.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Are you a Nazi?

Nein

 

[blaseblase]

"Cancel culture" is a meaningless term

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancel_culture

and who is censoring misinformation?

It's a stated goal of most social media platforms and the current administration

I'm pointing to the fact that there's this dynamic with the nutter left, where if they criticize mainstream liberals, it's because they are brave truthtellers going against their own side

"Mainstream liberals" = neoliberals hired by mainstream media I presume

"Nutter left" = ? Not even sure what you mean by this. The people who aren't "mainstream"?
Are the antiwar journalists that MSNBC fired after 9/11 what you consider the "nutter left"?
Maybe the fact you don't think of them as mainstream explains the dynamic you are trying to communicate.

while if mainstream liberals criticize them, it's because they are hacks. There's an inconsistent grouping going on. So my question was, like, about the Bernie nuts.

It's because of the arguments you are making and the consistent shilling. Note, I don't shill for Bernie the way you do for Biden. I liked some of his ideas and I voted for him. I don't defend him tooth and nail on everything he does.

"
Also, I listed many disagreements in addition to the obsession with money in politics.

No, you havent. Your biggest critique of the Democratic party is that they occasionally virtue signal about corruption in politics. Oh, and getting our "future" out of financial ruin. Your exact ideology is why the Democrats lose every other election. They need to ignore people like you and do things that everyday average Americans would agree with. There's no excuse for polling 50/50 against Trump.

 

[Mr Holmes]

It's probably healthier not to keep up with these kinds of things (trends in insults by edgy teenagers).

I must of hit the nail on the head to elicit so many comments on it. Maybe you should cry in the lounge about me.

 

[Sinister]

This thread is kind of funny.

"My criticism of Republicans is that they dont use power enough or play dirty enough."

Top Republican Presidential nominee is under indictment on 91 Charges for refusing to relinquish power, being a gigantic fraud, and keeping State secrets for personal use...current House Speaker voted not to certify the last election, Republicans all over the US attempting to further gerrymander maps so egregiously the very conservative Supreme Court told a State to knock it off and now another State is also ignoring Court mandates for less unfair redistricting.

Just say you want totalitarianism already.

 

[brothir]

Nein

So what's the deal with saying that people having children causes a spread of "dregs"?