Couture vs Nogueira

[ryun253]

It was an incredible fight. For a long time UFC fans thought Randy would beat the guys from Pride. It was amazing seeing the CTE fossil of Big Nog out class him everywhere.

Rip Jewish Lightning

 

[don't ask]

Wahhh PrIME FeDOR. Go lose your virginity.

At moments like this I realize that I'm not on a forum to discuss a common interest with other adults, I'm hanging out on a forum with loser high school kids.

 

[Reffson]

Wahhh PrIME FeDOR. Go lose your virginity.

Funny. Facts make you lash out like little baby.

 

[Ibm]

I was going to make a thread about this same thing, that Nogeura vs Couture is one of the most overlooked fights in MMA and no one ever talks about it. This matchup was so epic, I was pulling for Randy but Nogeira did amazing in that fight.

 

[StrikerKing]

Fedor and Nog only left their prime when they started losing according to the retarded fans.

This is stupid. The proof is in the pudding, comparing Nog is this fight and subsequent fights, it was clear as day he had slowed down tremendously. Where he once was light on his feet, reasonably fast, and very quick in his scrambles; he had become slow, plodding, no longer bouncing on the balls of his feet. It's not just the losing part as an indicator he was no longer in his prime, you could literally see he had slowed tremendously, as well as being half blind.

 

[Fedor Fan]

Top 10 ufc HW fight...not overall.

2 absolute legends both passed it but giving their all.

Lovely ground exchanges and some good striking exchanges as well.

I was so into it watching it live and just hoping for a good fight where both guys showed their skills! Fight delivered!

There was an amazing highlight of the fight set to piano music but i haven't been able to find it since. If anyone has a link it would be appreciated.

2 old lions doing their thing...I'd have loved to see a rematch.

 

[Sweater of AV]

I was asking for your list incase I missed or can't remember some rn.

Idk if I even have in my top 10, it might be 12th or 9th idk, I really haven't given THAT much thought about it. Just wanted your lists.

No worries. Nog-Couture was a great fight but both were so far past their best years. The skill and technique were still there but they were so slow. It was more just good to see they could still put on a fight like that. Of course, that's just my opinion though. I have no problem with anyone that puts it in their top 10.

As for a top 10 list, it's easier for me to just give a list of 10 fights that are better. These are some of just Nog's fights I would put above it:

Herring 1
Barnett 1
Sapp
Mirko
Hendo 1
Sergei
Fedor 1,3

For a list of 10, I would add:

Fedor-Mirko
Rizzo-Couture 1

I could honestly add quite a few more like Sergei-Aleks, Frye-Shamrock etc.

 

[markg171]

What's funny is people like you can't see the difference in talent between prime Fedor and Nog as compared to prime Couture and Sylvia. Dana quit sending his fighters to Pride tournaments because his prize horse, Chuck Liddell, got smoked by the third best LHW in a Pride tournament. You're just stupid. I laugh at you.

How exactly was Chuck Dana's "prize horse" when Randy had beaten him like an ugly step child only 2 months before for the interim belt meanwhile Tito was the reigning 5x LHW champ?

Chuck was sent precisely because he WASN'T the UFC's best fighter. He likewise was the UFC's "third best LHW" at the time and was expendable.

 

[SuperNerd]

I loved that fight, it exceed expectations for sure.

Was just a little too late in their careers.

 

[ticho123]

That is a silly, reductionist way to think about an MMA fighters Prime.

A male's physical prime occurs generally between age's 25-30 and you are starting to come off that after.

But that does not mean that is their MMA prime. You MMA prime is where your physical abilities and MMA fight game meet at their highest point of performance.

So Anderson Silva started in the UFC at age 30 and his MMA game (particularly his ability to defend the ground game) was getting better and better. HIs MMA Prime came later.

If a new Randy Couture type enters MMA today at age 35 having never trained but having a great wrestling resume, his MMA prime will come after some training and knowledge even if his physical condition is slightly less. He will be more in his fight Prime at ages 36, 37 and so on as his MMA knowledge and fight game improve.

Up to a point, yes. But not above 45...

 

[Mark McMichael]

Up to a point, yes. But not above 45...

That is just wrong.

I know a guy personally who had never trained fighting of any kind. He was a super fit athlete and competitive cyclists and he fell in love with mixed martial arts.

By age 45 he was a very competitive fighter winning in his age category events all across the country.

In terms of his fighting prime, he was a much better fighter at 45 then he was at 20 or 25 or 35.

Again a fight prime is a function of your mental game and knowledge reaching its peak COMBINED with your physicals skills that make you the best version of you.

So while Randy Couture would have been in his physical prime a age 24 when he first made the Olympic team, that would not have been his MMA Prime and the 44 year old Randy who beat Tim Syvia would have beat the physical prime Randy at age 24 in an MMA fight.

So it is simply wrong to just use a guys age and physical prime years to suggest that would be his MMA prime.

 

[GoshiShun17]

Randy had significantly less fights and took much less damage. It's amazing how this needs to be explained.

Still pushing 50. You're being biased

 

[ticho123]

That is just wrong.

I know a guy personally who had never trained fighting of any kind. He was a super fit athlete and competitive cyclists and he fell in love with mixed martial arts.

By age 45 he was a very competitive fighter winning in his age category events all across the country.

In terms of his fighting prime, he was a much better fighter at 45 then he was at 20 or 25 or 35.

Again a fight prime is a function of your mental game and knowledge reaching its peak COMBINED with your physicals skills that make you the best version of you.

So while Randy Couture would have been in his physical prime a age 24 when he first made the Olympic team, that would not have been his MMA Prime and the 44 year old Randy who beat Tim Syvia would have beat the physical prime Randy at age 24 in an MMA fight.

So it is simply wrong to just use a guys age and physical prime years to suggest that would be his MMA prime.

Of course a guy who was a massive couch potato in his twenties and started training MMA full time at 35 would be better at 45 than he was at 25, but that doesn't mean biological realities doesn't apply to him or that he's stopped aging. It's more complex than that. A 45 y/o guy is still 45 y/o even if he was a crappy fighter at 25 (not saying Couture was but as an exemple). At the time Nog vs Couture happened I don't remember anyone claiming either fighter was close to their primes.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Of course a guy who was a massive couch potato in his twenties and started training MMA full time at 35 would be better at 45 than he was at 25, but that doesn't mean biological realities doesn't apply to him or that he's stopped aging. It's more complex than that. A 45 y/o guy is still 45 y/o even if he was a crappy fighter at 25 (not saying Couture was but as an exemple). At the time Nog vs Couture happened I don't remember anyone claiming either fighter was close to their primes.

Biological realities apply to ones biological prime.

You are making the same mistake others are here as that does not always correlate with a persons sporting prime which requires knowledge and skill in the sport. In an ideal situation those align and you get the most 'peak' version of the person ever but that does not always happen.

If for instance you have never ridden a bicycle and you only learn in your 40's and then become a competitive cyclist your cycling competitive prime will be AFTER age 40. No amount of pointing at the fact the person had a physical prime that was younger, makes them a better cyclist in the sport.

When it comes to a sporting prime the equation is when the person's physical abilities AND their sporting skill and knowledge meet to make them the best version of themselves in that sport.

It may or not may NOT, correlate with a person being in their physical prime.

 

[Natural Order]

Top 10 HW fight all time? Nah.

Great fight though, maybe #3-4 in Nog's catalogue.

 

[djacobox372]

Randy's MMA debut was at 34yo tho. He doesn't have the same age curve of the avg fighter he's an outlier like Yoel, DC etc

So by that logic someone who starts fighting at 40, could compete at the top level into their mid 50s?

You're right that chronological age isn't the only factor, but it is a HUGE factor, especially when you get deep into your 40s. I'm 46 myself, I can attest.

 

[ticho123]

Biological realities apply to ones biological prime.

You are making the same mistake others are here as that does not always correlate with a persons sporting prime which requires knowledge and skill in the sport. In an ideal situation those align and you get the most 'peak' version of the person ever but that does not always happen.

If for instance you have never ridden a bicycle and you only learn in your 40's and then become a competitive cyclist your cycling competitive prime will be AFTER age 40. No amount of pointing at the fact the person had a physical prime that was younger, makes them a better cyclist in the sport.

When it comes to a sporting prime the equation is when the person's physical abilities AND their sporting skill and knowledge meet to make them the best version of themselves in that sport.

It may or not may NOT, correlate with a person being in their physical prime.

What I'm saying is that even though Couture's MMA prime didn't coincide with his physical prime I don't think his overall prime was as late as 2009. In general just because a fighter hits their prime later in life it doesn't make them immune to decline due to age.

 

[Red_Negan]

Funny. Facts make you lash out like little baby.

Wahhhhh

 

[Red_Negan]

This is stupid. The proof is in the pudding, comparing Nog is this fight and subsequent fights, it was clear as day he had slowed down tremendously. Where he once was light on his feet, reasonably fast, and very quick in his scrambles; he had become slow, plodding, no longer bouncing on the balls of his feet. It's not just the losing part as an indicator he was no longer in his prime, you could literally see he had slowed tremendously, as well as being half blind.

Lol sure, sure.

 

[Mark McMichael]

What I'm saying is that even though Couture's MMA prime didn't coincide with his physical prime I don't think his overall prime was as late as 2009. In general just because a fighter hits their prime later in life it doesn't make them immune to decline due to age.

I don't know what you mean by 'overall Prime' as I already said I am talking about a person's 'MMA fight Prime' only.

Like with Anderson Silva whose fight prime came much later in life than a person's typical physicals athletic prime.

This whole thing started when I replied to someone mocking the idea that any fighter could be in their MMA prime after a certain age, saying that men's physical prime was in their 20's.

Again the point is MMA and physical prime do not always align perfectly.