Comparing DJ and Silva's 10 title defenses

I love when the UFC was pushing that A. Silva was the GOAT everyone shit on the MW division and Anderson's competition, but now that MM is about to beat the record all of a sudden Anderson's record is tbe. I've been here awhile and I don't think I'll ever understand Sherdog.
 
Nobody wanted to miss a Silva fight.
Nobody cares if they miss a Mouse fight.
 
Lost me there. That is absolutely false. Here, allow me to educate you on the subject:




Cheers, playboy.
Quick Google search and you can find an mmaweekly article done where he actually admits to it. Dono how to add links from my cell. And fucking weird you keep calling me playboy but all good bud. Just pointing out your facts are not facts at all
 
Mr. Titty Dance and it's not even close...

TxZ5Fh6.gif
 
Quality post. But we can't be sure MM has never used PED's. Everyone is and should be suspect.

Being suspect is one thing. Being found guilty is another. Everyone who has not failed gets the benefit of doubt. Falsely accusing fighters of roiding used to be considered fighter bashing here.
 
People say stuff like this all time, but rarely do they expand on or truly clarify what they mean.
Just because haters will hate on everything, you don't have to turn a blind eye to things. I know it's been overstated, but there is truth to some of it.

Floyd is a smart, if he can get any advantages, he will take it. He's not the kind of guy to go into a fight he thinks he can't win. Granted he was better than anyone else for a long time so he could pretty much win any fight at a certain point in time. Still, it's about low risk, high reward. As the A side, Floyd could pick exactly who and when he would fight, under which circumstances, and stipulations.

The biggest wins on his resume are what Dela Hoya, Mosley, Castillo, Pac and Canello?

Dela Hoya was past his prime, no doubt about that. Mosley was too. Castillo was legit. Canelo was just before his prime and agreed to cut too much weight. Pac was past his prime. When it comes to the middle tier fighters later in his career Floyd had completely control, but then again, that is how boxing is. It is not just a knock on Floyd. Very rarely does the champ fight the #1 contender, so much politics and bullshit in boxing.

When it comes to the "circumstances" Floyd picks the weight, he picks the gloves (the thing with Maidana was ridiculous), he picks the ref, he picks the venue, he picks the judges (at least he has a big influence), he picks all the stipulations. He is the money fight so he has all the power. The commissions also basicly just bend to his will.

Fighting Berto and Conor in his last two fights again show how smart he is. He is not like a lot of other guys that doesn't know when to wind down and call it quits.

Floyd is certainly one of greatest boxers of this era, and the way he has managed his career is probably the greatest ever, but that is exactly because he was smart about what, when and how he fought.
 
Just because haters will hate on everything, you don't have to turn a blind eye to things. I know it's been overstated, but there is truth to some of it.

Floyd is a smart, if he can get any advantages, he will take it. He's not the kind of guy to go into a fight he thinks he can't win. Granted he was better than anyone else for a long time so he could pretty much win any fight at a certain point in time. Still, it's about low risk, high reward. As the A side, Floyd could pick exactly who and when he would fight, under which circumstances, and stipulations.

The biggest wins on his resume are what Dela Hoya, Mosley, Castillo, Pac and Canello?

Dela Hoya was past his prime, no doubt about that. Mosley was too. Castillo was legit. Canelo was just before his prime and agreed to cut too much weight. Pac was past his prime. Usually, you can't help in which point in time you fight certain fighters, but Floyd could. Again, he is smart. When you can pick when you want to fight someone, it changes thing. When it comes to the middle tier fighters later in his career Floyd had completely control, but then again, that is how boxing is. It is not just a knock on Floyd. Very rarely does the champ fight the #1 contender, so much politics and bullshit in boxing.

When it comes to the "circumstances" Floyd picks the weight, he picks the gloves (the thing with Maidana was ridiculous), he picks all the stipulations. He is the money fight so he has all the power. The commissions also basicly just bend to his will.

Fighting Berto and Conor in his last two fights again show how smart he is. He is not like a lot of other guys that doesn't know when to wind down and call it quits.

Floyd is certainly one of greatest boxers of this era, and the way he has managed his career is probably the greatest ever, but that is exactly because he is smart about what, when and how he fought.

You have to ask yourself if he could have fought any of these men in their primes, and if so, was it his fault these fights didn't happen? Floyd started calling both Mosley and Oscar out all the way back when he was a SFW. Both men were much bigger stars than he was for the majority of Mayweather's early career. It was Mosley, not Mayweather, who wasn't interesting in fighting when he was younger. Floyd wasn't a big enough name or heavy enough to justify fighting Oscar until 2007 (and Floyd would have taken that fight at any time earlier as Oscar was always going to be a massive payday).

You can argue that he picked Canelo just at the right time (let's remember Floyd was 36 for that fight), but they were both the clear top JMWs in the world at the time and the fight was for the lineal JMW championship of the world (the fight created a new and very much legitimate lineage). Did you want Mayweather to wait until he's 40 and outweighed by more than 20 pounds to take that fight?

This entire line that people love to throw out hinges completely on the Pacquiao saga and without getting into that tired old conversation for the thousandth time, there is all kinds of blame to lump on each side. Mayweather has been "smart" with his career since his move to WW, but he has also consistently fought elite fighters. There isn't any criticism to make of Mayweather for when he fought Oscar, Mosley, or Canelo. He fought them when it logically made sense to fight them (when Mosley had shown himself to have a claim to being the best WW post Margarito and was actually willing to get in the ring with Mayweather, and when Oscar was willing to get in the ring with Mayweather - note, everything for that fight was on Oscar's terms), and when he wanted to fight Oscar and Mosley at an earlier date, they weren't willing (reasonable on Oscar's part, less reasonable for Mosley).
 
You have to ask yourself if he could have fought any of these men in their primes, and if so, was it his fault these fights didn't happen? Floyd started calling both Mosley and Oscar out all the way back when he was a SFW. Both men were much bigger stars than he was for the majority of Mayweather's early career. It was Mosley, not Mayweather, who wasn't interesting in fighting when he was younger. Floyd wasn't a big enough name or heavy enough to justify fighting Oscar until 2007 (and Floyd would have taken that fight at any time earlier as Oscar was always going to be a massive payday).

You can argue that he picked Canelo just at the right time (let's remember Floyd was 36 for that fight), but they were both the clear top JMWs in the world at the time and the fight was for the lineal JMW championship of the world (the fight created a new and very much legitimate lineage). Did you want Mayweather to wait until he's 40 and outweighed by more than 20 pounds to take that fight?

This entire line that people love to throw out hinges completely on the Pacquiao saga and without getting into that tired old conversation for the thousandth time, there is all kinds of blame to lump on each side. Mayweather has been "smart" with his career since his move to WW, but he has also consistently fought elite fighters. There isn't any criticism to make of Mayweather for when he fought Oscar, Mosley, or Canelo. He fought them when it logically made sense to fight them (when Mosley had shown himself to have a claim to being the best WW post Margarito and was actually willing to get in the ring with Mayweather, and when Oscar was willing to get in the ring with Mayweather - note, everything for that fight was on Oscar's terms), and when he wanted to fight Oscar and Mosley at an earlier date, they weren't willing (reasonable on Oscar's part, less reasonable for Mosley).
Yeah I agree with a lot of what you are saying. As you can see I edited out the part of my post you highlighted because I thought it wasn't a fair representation. Unfortunately you had already qouted it.

Earlier in his career Floyd couldn't help who he fought really. He took chances and chances were he fought a few elite fighters on the decline.

I see your point about Canelo, but Floyd wasn't an ordinary 36 year old. There is no denying that Floyd picked a time when Canelo had not quite matured into the fighter he is today and that he picked a weight that Canelo could barely make, and visibly effected him on fight night. I don't think Canelo would necessarily win under different circumstances, even today, but they did not favour him.

From the second half of his career forward, Floyd called all the shots. You don't have a career like Floyd without carefully managing it. That's not a knock on him again, he is smart. You didn't address the gloves, commission, judges, refs, venues, weight, opponents so on. Can we agree that Floyd controlled all the details surrounding his fights, besides who he wanted to fight, after a certain point in his career?
 
Anderson Silva = Number 2 p4p of all time

http://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/

Below (way below) you will see Mighty Mouse at 16th of all time. That's a hell of a difference for there to even be comparisons.

125lbs is a weak division, he will need take the 135lbs title if he wants to be taken seriously as a contender for GOAT.
 
Yeah I agree with a lot of what you are saying. As you can see I edited out the part of my post you highlighted because I thought it wasn't a fair representation. Unfortunately you had already qouted it.

Earlier in his career Floyd couldn't help who he fought really. He took chances and chances were he fought a few elite fighters on the decline.

I see your point about Canelo, but Floyd wasn't an ordinary 36 year old. There is no denying that Floyd picked a time when Canelo had not quite matured into the fighter he is today and that he picked a weight that Canelo could barely make, and visibly effected him on fight night. I don't think Canelo would necessarily win under different circumstances, even today, but they did not favour him.

From the second half of his career forward, Floyd called all the shots. You don't have a career like Floyd without carefully managing it. That's not a knock on him again, he is smart. You didn't address the gloves, commission, judges, refs, venues, weight, opponents so on. Can we agree that Floyd controlled all the details surrounding his fights, besides who he wanted to fight, after a certain point in his career?

Being the biggest star in the sport you're going to have power in negotiation. This is to be expected. In terms of being able to pick gloves, I will agree that the Maidana situation was somewhat ridiculous (not that I think it made much difference, but it was ridiculous). Having said that, outside of one claim by Chop Chop, I've never seen any evidence of Mayweather picking any of his opponents gloves outside of the Maidana situation. Essentially every big puncher he has ever faced, minus Maidana, got to use the gloves they wanted to. Mayweather was famously unable to convince the commission to use 8 oz gloves for a JMW fight when he fought Cotto (yet they did it for some reason for the Mayweather/McGregor farce).

In terms of judging, outside of the Castillo fight which happened well before he became a star (even if he was the money fighter in that matchup), there hasn't been a fight that you can reasonably argue Floyd lost, and if anything it's been more typical to see poor scoring against Floyd than for him (the 114-114 card in the Canelo fight being a major example). You can argue that he is able to exert pressure to choose certain referees, but it's not like most referees that people complain about (Cortez against Hatton and Bayless against Maidana the second time) have reffed out of character for those fights.

Cortez wasn't going to allow Hatton to flagrantly foul (which the British refs who Hatton got his whole career did allow), but his reaction to Hatton's plan wasn't something that I liked (they didn't always need to be broken immediately). When Hatton stopped tying up Mayweather and then going to work (which isn't legal) and instead attempted to infight legally, Cortez let them go and Mayweather actually got the better of the infighting (something Hatton has acknowledged on several occasions). All in all, I didn't like the way Cortez reffed the fight, but that is the way Cortez always refs infighting, and Mayweather was always going to beat Hatton.

As for Bayless, I've never liked the way he refs (he never allows much to happen on the inside, especially when fighters try and engage on the inside by first tying their opponent up), but he reffed the second Maidana fight the way he typically refs any fight. I think Floyd deserved a warning and perhaps even a deduction for frequently holding on the inside (initiating a clinch isn't actually illegal, but frequently holding on and not letting go once you get there is), but that's par for the course for Bayless. It's more a symptom of the way fights are refereed these days than anything else (and very few fighters can fight on the inside in this era, although, Floyd is actually one of them who can). At the same time, Maidana got away with a ridiculous amount in the first Mayweather fight without being penalized (not that I fault Maidana, that's how he had to fight, and that style is part of the reason I've always liked him). Even in the recent McGregor fight, the reffing was fairly poor in the sense that he didn't meaingfully warn McGregor for just about any of the flagrant fouling he engaged in (which, I'll say, included more holding on the inside than you'll see in essentially any Floyd fight).

All in all, bringing the kind of money to the table that Floyd does is going to give you leverage in negotiation and thus many small (and often trivial, but not always) advantages. Many other fighters have had similar privileges over a longer period of time than Floyd (Ray Robinson, for example, was even more controlling in negotiation than Mayweather), it's just the way boxing works. There isn't anyone else in the sport's history who has gone unbeaten fighting the type of opposition Floyd has (not saying he's the greatest of all time, or that it isn't easier in this era to control more things while fighting less frequently, just that it's still a remarkable achievement). t's hard to really point to any situation where any of these advantages were close to being decisive. For that reason, I think the fact that many people like to talk about all these things as if they really overshadow his achievements in any meaningful way to be a little ridiculous.
 
Being the biggest star in the sport you're going to have power in negotiation. This is to be expected. In terms of being able to pick gloves, I will agree that the Maidana situation was somewhat ridiculous (not that I think it made much difference, but it was ridiculous). Having said that, outside of one claim by Chop Chop, I've never seen any evidence of Mayweather picking any of his opponents gloves outside of the Maidana situation. Essentially every big puncher he has ever faced, minus Maidana, got to use the gloves they wanted to. Mayweather was famously unable to convince the commission to use 8 oz gloves for a JMW fight when he fought Cotto (yet they did it for some reason for the Mayweather/McGregor farce).

In terms of judging, outside of the Castillo fight which happened well before he became a star (even if he was the money fighter in that matchup), there hasn't been a fight that you can reasonably argue Floyd lost, and if anything it's been more typical to see poor scoring against Floyd than for him (the 114-114 card in the Canelo fight being a major example). You can argue that he is able to exert pressure to choose certain referees, but it's not like most referees that people complain about (Cortez against Hatton and Bayless against Maidana the second time) have reffed out of character for those fights.

Cortez wasn't going to allow Hatton to flagrantly foul (which the British refs who Hatton got his whole career did allow), but his reaction to Hatton's plan wasn't something that I liked (they didn't always need to be broken immediately). When Hatton stopped tying up Mayweather and then going to work (which isn't legal) and instead attempted to infight legally, Cortez let them go and Mayweather actually got the better of the infighting (something Hatton has acknowledged on several occasions). All in all, I didn't like the way Cortez reffed the fight, but that is the way Cortez always refs infighting, and Mayweather was always going to beat Hatton.

As for Bayless, I've never liked the way he refs (he never allows much to happen on the inside, especially when fighters try and engage on the inside by first tying their opponent up), but he reffed the second Maidana fight the way he typically refs any fight. I think Floyd deserved a warning and perhaps even a deduction for frequently holding on the inside (initiating a clinch isn't actually illegal, but frequently holding on and not letting go once you get there is), but that's par for the course for Bayless. It's more a symptom of the way fights are refereed these days than anything else (and very few fighters can fight on the inside in this era, although, Floyd is actually one of them who can). At the same time, Maidana got away with a ridiculous amount in the first Mayweather fight without being penalized (not that I fault Maidana, that's how he had to fight, and that style is part of the reason I've always liked him). Even in the recent McGregor fight, the reffing was fairly poor in the sense that he didn't meaingfully warn McGregor for just about any of the flagrant fouling he engaged in (which, I'll say, included more holding on the inside than you'll see in essentially any Floyd fight).

All in all, bringing the kind of money to the table that Floyd does is going to give you leverage in negotiation and thus many small (and often trivial, but not always) advantages. Many other fighters have had similar privileges over a longer period of time than Floyd (Ray Robinson, for example, was even more controlling in negotiation than Mayweather), it's just the way boxing works. There isn't anyone else in the sport's history who has gone unbeaten fighting the type of opposition Floyd has (not saying he's the greatest of all time, or that it isn't easier in this era to control more things while fighting less frequently, just that it's still a remarkable achievement). t's hard to really point to any situation where any of these advantages were close to being decisive. For that reason, I think the fact that many people like to talk about all these things as if they really overshadow his achievements in any meaningful way to be a little ridiculous.
I knew you'd have good arguments and you do. I was perhaps a little too hasty in some of my assertions, and as I said in the beginning I agree that especially the whole "ducking" thing is completely overstated.

I still think it would be wrong not to acknowledge how particular meticulous Floyd has been during his career, added by the enormous power he has had. It's the sum of the small (and in a few cases big) parts. Contrary to a lot of people, I actually think it's a positive. From the way he's fought, to the power he's had, he has gotten the most out of boxing that he could have. I don't think there is a career smarter managed than Floyds. Dare I say I'd be hard pressed to find fighters smarter than Floyd? Sounds a little surreal.

Surely Floyd isn't the only one who has had a position of power and used it. I'm sure Ray Robinson had too, but I didn't live it so it's always something that falls further back in the mind. I will trust your view on that as I know you have your boxing history down.
 
Quick Google search and you can find an mmaweekly article done where he actually admits to it. Dono how to add links from my cell. And fucking weird you keep calling me playboy but all good bud. Just pointing out your facts are not facts at all

Stop being in denial.

I just gave you a direct quote from Vitor himself saying he started TRT right after the fight with Silva and this was confirmed by the NSAC director and pre-fight questionnaire. Here, in case you missed it:

Q: When did you start with the (TRT) treatment exactly?
Vitor: It was after the fight with Anderson (february 2011)


http://sportv.globo.com/site/combate/noticia/2013/07/belfort-espera-de-spider-x-weidman-tentaram-tudo-para-me-tirar-e-liquidei.HTML

Bet you didn't see that one coming, playboy.

<JonesDXSuckIt>

If you have a direct quote, I repeat, a direct quote, not from a journalist but from Vitor himself saying he was already on TRT, please post them. And please don't forget to refute the words of the NSAC director, pre-fight questionnaire and post fight drug test results :)

Cheers playboy.
 
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Who fought the better competition?

DJ:
Dodson x2, Benavidez, Horiguchi, cejudo, bagautinov, moraga, Elliot, reis, cariaso

Or

Silva:
Belford, Henderson, sonnen x2, Maia, marquardt, okami, Leithes, cote, franklin
Silva's resume is much better. Some of those guys are killers. DJ has fought no one except maybe Dodson and a washed up Joe B
 
What if MM and his opponents were 185 and Anderson and his opponents were 125?
 
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