Combating PEDs

[true_fan]

Instant ban for life if not then it defeats the purpose of competition or change it to competition with drugs

 

[Prologue]

I'm in the "let the juice" camp. Mainly because I feel bigger stars likely get way more priviledge when it comes to drugs/cheating. It would be better to eliminating the "cheating" element to PEDs if you just allow them, so that big names don't get unfair advantages.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

This is all correct. Theyre juicing anyways.
Humans will always cheat. It's just what we do.
So let them cheat I say bc it produces a better product

I never understood this kind of thinking it's very like anarchy based we also used to rape and pillage people and can murder a huge groups of people and that was like the norm should we also do that because that's just what everybody does or did..

A clean sport is fair....theres nothing fair about performance enchancers as it often comes down to money ans connections things that arent available to everyone or not what everyone wants to do

 

[Blank7]

Honestly, anything PED related with the Tour De France or the Olympics should be required reading and watching for most people, people should at least watch "Icarus" or "The Armstrong Lie". You come to appreciate the other aspects that go into sports outside of the numbers that the athletes throw up, but the approach to training, sports science, etc. It's why I love F1, because the driver is largely irrelevant at that level, the true beauty lies in the competition of the developers, skirting the lines within and sometimes outside of regulations to produce the fastest car. It's also why I love the Olympics, when approached from a similar angle. It's just to bad that you can hardly cover stuff like that due to the taboo and of course the laws associated with drugs and other grey areas, China's approach to producin.

That's why you got put Jon on a different level. Has access to the best cooks, labs and advice and still keeps popping. I honestly believe if Jon wasn't a fighter the only way he'd make a successful career out of anything was by snitching on people and kissing ass.

I don't know if it's still accessible but some fighters were being testing significantly more under USADA than others, they went about in a manner that if you looked juicy they would attempt to catch you throughout the most random periods in your competitive season. They make it much harder for some fighters.

Edit: Here it is: https://www.usada.org/news/athlete-test-history/ ( Year: 2021 Quarter: All Sport: MMA > Search)

There you can see some fighters within this year being tested a lot in comparison to others.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Could do all kinds of things. I think currently the ufc is trying to “slow it down”, but doesn’t want to stop it entirely.

For example, if you wanted you could test every single fighter at a gym immediately if anyone from that gym tests positive. But they don’t.

They could increase testing volume, set required intermittent testing every week once a fighter sounds a bout agreement.

But they don’t.

They just want the image of a clean sport, or that they are doing their best so they can maintain high profile partners like ESPN.

I agree more can get done and most likely it's just a PR move and that's why I mentioned in my post that if they wanted to they could do something like what I'm suggesting they could do a lot of things absolutely but I'd really like to see a clean sport I'd really like to see what that's like because we know peds come down to money and they come down the connections and not everybody has that and not everybody wants to use them like me personally I'm a martial artist and I would never use any kind of performance enhancer.

 

[Kryptt]

I gave up on the PED game after reading and watching a bit bout steroids in sports. Well that plus guys in HS were already juicing.

 

[Fioretti]

That's why you got put Jon on a different level. Has access to the best cooks, labs and advice and still keeps popping. I honestly believe if Jon wasn't a fighter the only way he'd make a successful career out of anything was by snitching on people and kissing ass.

That's a bold assumption against a very capable man, but ultimately I agree with your initial thought on how him popping (especially more than once) is likely pretty fucking dumb.

 

[Blank7]

It's not that it would push the cost of testing which really isn't that much to the coaches or anything that it causes them to get to be more involved than what their Fighters are doing so for instance the fighter wants to join their gym who had a ped history then maybe they don't get to join the gym because there's a chance that they bring that element to their gym which would cost them a penalty or if like you know there's Fighters that are using inside their gym the coaches have to make a decision now to whether or not they're going to allow it or not because it also affects them versus how the current setup is where everyone just hopes nobody gets caught and you know even if they do get caught whatever the gym survives and the fighter gets dinkef but the gym was involved in it the gym knew what was going on or allowed what they allowed

You really have to pinpoint the metrics, it's incredibly important in this discussion. Last I checked, testing is far from cheap, and testing to prevent any one of your fighters from flagging to prevent a meaningful fine from befalling a camp is even more expensive. Understand, when most sports approach testing, they don't even approach the blood, they usually do piss tests, which is a joke for anyone in the know. So now camps have to be responsible for blood testing? Which camps can even afford that? And for the camps that can afford it, will the fine be meaningful enough in comparison to the funds they generate from their pro athletes, the attention they get from producing champions and top fighters, which draw revenue from other fighters and even casuals to sign up? It's hard for me to take this approach seriously, because it's not like every top fighter is even locked down to a camp these days, the best, especially in boxing, jump from camp to camp depending on what they are looking for heading into a fight. Hell, some fighters pull trainers to them, which you could imagine would create a nightmare scenario for holding anyone accountable besides the fighter. That makes the idea of holding camps responsible even worse to manage at that level.

We could get a bit more serious about your specific approach if you want, because there are a lot of glaring holes to cover, I see the point of what you are going for, it's understandable, but I think you are falling for the delusion of a clean sport, and your proposal really only leads to throwing more money down the drain to further that delusion. I say USADA is enough if you want to uphold that delusion, that money could go elsewhere and we would likely be provided a greater spectacle for doing so, but I know people love the idea of holding cheaters accountable. lol It's nothing that concerns me at all, I welcome the aspect, it's interesting. What is "fair" is an irrelevancy in sporting to anyone reasonable individual, how can "fair" be applied to a Jon Jones, Usian Bolt, Michael Phelps, or Kipchoge? Of course we have rules within our sports, which I definitely welcome, but the idea of fairness outside of that is silly, imo. Although I take a very deterministic approach to life so I'm familiar with how off-putting that can be to most.

 

[Blank7]

Well that plus guys in HS were already juicing.

LOL I have to emphasize this part of your post, there were times where you could easily come across oral "juice" at stores like GNC without even realizing that's what it was. That's become much harder, but there are probably a lot of HS athletes that have doped without even realizing it.

edit: And when you consider the benefits of putting your kid in an environment to reach a multi-million contract with the NFL, NBA, etc. I'm not surprised that parents are juicing their kids, they certainty spare no expenses with off-season camps.

 

[TheChance]

morons who still think their favorite athlete is drug free. l

Unfortunately those morons are very vocal so now we have USADA

 

[Blank7]

Unfortunately those morons are very vocal so now we have USADA

Unfortunately, yeah.

 

[dogsdonutsdragons]

Could do all kinds of things. I think currently the ufc is trying to “slow it down”, but doesn’t want to stop it entirely.

For example, if you wanted you could test every single fighter at a gym immediately if anyone from that gym tests positive. But they don’t.

They could increase testing volume, set required intermittent testing every week once a fighter sounds a bout agreement.

But they don’t.

They just want the image of a clean sport, or that they are doing their best so they can maintain high profile partners like ESPN.

the reality is for most participants they are necessary. this has always been the case through out time. what they put their bodies through is unnatural and unsustainable. the ufc knows this. even small niche sports are flooded these days with high income earning individuals loaded on peds. you have a lot of kids coming out of high school foot ball and wrestling programs who are prescribed trt in their early 20s. its just the reality of the world today. its not just in sports. people are all medicated out or abusing meds to get an edge. nothing is balanced. they can't ban or detect everything that will give someone an edge. I think there will be open doping in future sports there is to much money on the line these days in the sports world for it to be anything other than roided out entertainment.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Okay so I have a new theory about how the UFC could combat PEDs if they were serious about getting rid of it and that would be to start getting the gyms involved in the penalties associated with PEDs so for instance if a fighter from AKA is caught with PEDs then the gym will also receive a fine against them just like the fighter will and this will put the onus on the gyms to know what is going on with their guys and to nip this at the butt at the problem which is pre-fight not post fight right now you get introuble for post fight what u should be really get in trouble for what you do pre-fight as well the the gyms need to be more involved in stopping PEDs cuz that's where the PEDs start in training...

You're suggesting going with some North Korean level punishment for a ingesting something that helps them train harder?

Here's my question. Why do we give a fuck about things guys are taken to help them train harder and perform better but we openly accept that fighters temporarily dehydrate themselves severely in order to gain a size advantage on their opponents? Weight classes are defined as divisions of competition used to match competitors against others of their own size yet we are allowing them to circumvent this by dehydration which is dangerous. So why the fuck are we on a mission to violate the privacy rights of fighters with a witch hunt of PEDs but it comes to weight cutting no one cares.

 

[Arrrrgh]

I just wish they would clone every fighter so they have spare parts to replace when they get injured, and then let them all juice to the gills and fight to the death.

I'm pretty sure we can do a brain transplant into the clone as long as the CTE isn't too bad.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

the reality is for most participants they are necessary. this has always been the case through out time. what they put their bodies through is unnatural and unsustainable. the ufc knows this. even small niche sports are flooded these days with high income earning individuals loaded on peds. you have a lot of kids coming out of high school foot ball and wrestling programs who are prescribed trt in their early 20s. its just the reality of the world today. its not just in sports. people are all medicated out or abusing meds to get an edge. nothing is balanced. they can't ban or detect everything that will give someone an edge. I think there will be open doping in future sports there is to much money on the line these days in the sports world for it to be anything other than roided out entertainment.

That's if we are to allow greed to win greed is the biggest problem facing the world right now but it doesn't mean it has to be that way just because the majority is greedy currently doesn't mean it has to remain that way we have the power to change whatever we want in any direction so why does it have to be peds allowed only or nothing else why can't it be clean sport and nothing else

 

[ifindgifsforjackslack]

Clean league, roid league. If you pop even once you are no longer allowed to compete in the clean competition.
Basically puts the onus on the fighter, fight clean or destroy your heart and body with rampant use, to try to compete in the monsters division.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

You're suggesting going with some North Korean level punishment for a ingesting something that helps them train harder?

Here's my question. Why do we give a fuck about things guys are taken to help them train harder and perform better but we openly accept that fighters temporarily dehydrate themselves severely in order to gain a size advantage on their opponents? Weight classes are defined as divisions of competition used to match competitors against others of their own size yet we are allowing them to circumvent this by dehydration which is dangerous. So why the fuck are we on a mission to violate the privacy rights of fighters with a witch hunt of PEDs but it comes to weight cutting no one cares.

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Because it's out of the realm of what's humanly possible the sport is supposed to be about humans competing against each other supposed to be what is who is the better fighter not who can take the better drugs and change their bodies to unhuman like levels and then be the winner it's about humans competing against humans on a physical and mental and skill level base not who can get the best stuff and win with it


All I'm suggesting is that Fighters and their gyms be accountable for what takes place when it comes to performance enhancing drugs that's all I'm asking I'm not asking for some North Korean nothing all I'm saying is the responsibility falls deeper than just a fighter if the gym is also allowing

 

[ShtickandMove]

There's no such thing. Don't bother.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Clean league, roid league. If you pop even once you are no longer allowed to compete in the clean competition.
Basically puts the onus on the fighter, fight clean or destroy your heart and body with rampant use, to try to compete in the monsters division.

I guess this would be like the Mr Olympia route versus natural bodybuilding you could do it this way but I don't know if the logistics of that makes sense for the number of Fighters

 

[Kryptt]

That's if we are to allow greed to win greed is the biggest problem facing the world right now but it doesn't mean it has to be that way just because the majority is greedy currently doesn't mean it has to remain that way we have the power to change whatever we want in any direction so why does it have to be peds allowed only or nothing else why can't it be clean sport and nothing else

Idealistic but whose going to step up and lead this?

No One - The Dynamic is set and not changing (well imo anyhow).