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Colts player killed by drunk "immigrant" wanted for deportation
- Thread starter ProBoxingInsidr
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yea. you shouldnt allow singular stories to impact your opinion on national policies. you need national trends for that. if you can show that illegals commit crime at higher rates than natives, then it may sway my opinion on immigration.
ok. how is this related to the OP?
meh. i think immigration can be made into an engine, or a weight around your neck. depends on the situation your country is in, and how immigration is used, or ignored.
well, the cold war spurred some of this, and we were HUGELY benefitting from WW2 still. several other countries like china had not developed. they have now. the 50's and 60's will never come back. that was a uniquely beneficial time for america.
lol. we see this even in school districts with virtually no immigration. people no longer want taxes raised to fund education. theyd rather blame the problems on the teachers. its easier that way. no one, especially politicians, will have to do a thing except point fingers.
stop being silly. some of these trailer classrooms are filled with smartboards and students who all have federally granted laptops. youre oversimplifying this issue.
ah lol. and in history class, you should have learned that we've seen this story before, all over the world, for centuries. "ohhh....if only these new people were gone...utopia would once again return to us."
and without it, there arent? the largest market for illegal drugs on earth is going to stop having gangs if you dont allow immigration?
yes its alllllll the immigrants fault. not that we simply have other priorities with regard to spending? we spend 6 times 2nd place on the military. im sort of OK with that....but lets not blame this all on immigrants.
and besides, im sort of the opinion that we should find immigrants so that they can be thoroughly taxed. will this solve your problem? id guess not.
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I'm not so sure.
Seems the law failed us on this one if there was a deportation order and he was driving the streets. Was he a first time offender? Had he caused trouble other times? I am not aware, but the order was there.
I am sure this thread is full of layers upon layers of rationalizations to protect a certain way of doing things, a certain collective group, but that is kind of a rhetorical distraction, often a response to the wave upon wave of posts that will want to tie collective guilt to all immigrants.
As is, if someone breaks the law for their success, you have to think breaking more laws or the idea of law in the host country might not be as strong.
As is, if an immigrant is a bad guy, it does not mean the vast majority are bad guys.
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It's not their fault . Some cultures are smarter and harder workers then others.
Some are simple live off the land type.
It's not a good idea to import people who who come from cultures and governments that failed.
And they bring that ideology with them.
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He had been deported twice.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-jackson-indianapolis-colts-country-illegally
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...-jackson-indianapolis-colts-country-illegally
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Source
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By definition every single illegal has committed a crime. That's a 100% rate compared to the American population.
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Yeah that’s obvious. All races have sketchy people. The problem is that certain ethnic groups are much more likely to be sketchy. That’s just a fact proven by numbers. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignorant
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See, this sorta shit is when I start to get pissed.
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That doesn't make .08 any less arbitrary. You act like I support drunk driving... In my system this guy would get death... but yeah, pretend I'm so soft handed lol
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— Antonio Villaraigosa on Monday, July 31st, 2017 in an interview on MSNBC
Undocumented immigrants less likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens
By Chris Nichols on Thursday, August 3rd, 2017 at 4:04 p.m.
Iker Velasquez, 4, who came from Honduras with his parents, holds a U.S. flag as he listens while Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., speaks to the media with children and families from Central America. AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin
Candidate for California governorAntonio Villaraigosa jumped into the nation’s heated debate on immigration reform during a recent interview on MSNBC.
The Democrat and former Los Angeles mayor rejected the idea that deporting undocumented immigrants was a sound strategy for reducing crime.
His statement followed President Trump’s speech about combatting MS-13 gang members. The gang started in poor Los Angeles neighborhoods where many refugees from civil wars in El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua lived in the 1980s. It’s grown into an international criminal organization with more than 30,000.
Trump campaigned on the promise to deport millions of undocumented residents, often describing them as threats to public safety.
Here’s what Villaraigosa said on July 31, 2017 on MSNBC.
"I think we all agree that people that commit violent crimes ought to be deported. But going after the undocumented is not a crime strategy, when you look at the fact that the National Academy of Sciences in, I think it was November of 2015, the undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born. That’s just a fact."
Watch the interview here.
We decided to examine this last point as part of our Tracking The Truth series, which fact-checks claims in the 2018 California governor's race.
We interpreted Villaraigosa’s statement to mean undocumented people commit crimes at a lower rate than the native born.
But we wondered whether this was really a settled matter.
We set out on a fact check.
Our research
We started by checking out the 2015 National Academy of Sciences studyVillaraigosa cited. It found: "Immigrants are in fact much less likely to commit crime than natives, and the presence of large numbers of immigrants seems to lower crime rates." The study added that "This disparity also holds for young men most likely to be undocumented immigrants: Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men."
It continued: "Today, the belief that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes is perpetuated by ‘issue entrepreneurs’ who promote the immigrant-crime connection in order to drive restrictionist immigration policy."
The academy is a nonprofit research organization charged with providing independent advice to the nation. It is funded largely by the federal government.
Findings in a March 2017 study by the libertarian Cato Institute also support Villaraigosa's statement:
"Illegal immigrants are 44 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal immigrants are 69 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal and illegal immigrants are underrepresented in the incarcerated population while natives are overrepresented."
The Cato study used information from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey for immigrants aged 18 to 54 who are incarcerated in the United States.
To examine Villaraigosa's claim, we also relied on research into similar claims by our partner national PolitiFact. In July 2016, it rated Mostly True a statement by Libertarian candidate for president Gary Johnson that Mexican immigrants "are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens and that is a statistic."
PolitiFact found several studies that back up this claim by citing incarceration rates. It also found groups that challenged those studies or said more research is needed.
PolitiFact’s findings
PolitiFact pointed to a July 2015 report by the American Immigration Council, a pro-immigrant nonprofit in Washington. The council analyzed data from the Census’ 2010 American Community Survey and found that about 1.6 percent of all immigrant males (Census does not specify legal status) between 18 and 39 years old were incarcerated, compared to 3.3 percent of the native-born population.
Looking at California prisons, immigrants are also underrepresented. U.S.-born men are incarcerated in the state at a rate of more than two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California.
The American Immigration Council also reported that 2010 Census data shows incarceration rates of young, less educated Mexican, Salvadoran and Guatemalan men — which comprise the bulk of the unauthorized population — are "significantly lower" than incarceration rates of native-born young men without a high-school diploma.
Specifically for Mexican men ages 18 to 39, the incarceration rate in 2010 was 2.8 percent, compared to 10.7 percent for native-born men in the same age group, the council’s report said.
Immigrants come to the United States to build better lives for themselves and their children, said Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council and one of the report’s authors.
"They are very motivated to not blow that opportunity by getting in trouble with the police," he told PolitiFact. "This is especially so for unauthorized immigrants, who can be deported at any time for unlawful presence."
Crime trends
PolitiFact also noted that as the immigrant population has increased, crime has gone down, citing Ewing’s report.
Between 1990 and 2013, the foreign-born share of the U.S. population increased from 7.9 percent to 13.1 percent, and the number of unauthorized immigrants went up from 3.5 million to 11.2 million. At the same time, the violent crime rate (murder, rape and aggravated assault) decreased 48 percent and property crime rate fell 41 percent, the report said, citing FBI data.
Bianca E. Bersani, an assistant professor and director of the Criminology and Criminal Justice Program at the University of Massachusetts in Boston, says her research also shows that crime involvement among foreign-born residents is lower than that of U.S.-born citizens.
"The rhetoric of the ‘criminal immigrant’ does not align with the bulk of empirical research," Bersani said.
According to Bersani’s research, while first-generation immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native-born population, the second generation (individuals born in the United States to at least one foreign-born parent) more closely resemble patterns of their native-born peers (three or more U.S.-born generations).
"This does not suggest that the second generation is uniquely crime prone, but instead that they are acting in ways that are no different from the rest of the U.S.-born population," Bersani said.
Datasets with information on both crime and immigrant status are rare, Bersani said, though more research and data are becoming available.
More research needed?
The Center for Immigration Studies, which supports stricter immigration policies, in a 2009 study said that overall understanding of immigrants and crime "remains confused" due to lack of data and contrary information.
Unless inmates are identified as immigrant or native-born, incarceration rates are a poor way to measure links between immigrants and crime, the study said.
As PolitiFact reported in 2015, there isn’t exact data on how many undocumented immigrants are currently incarcerated.
PolitiFact California spoke about this critique with Ewing of the American Immigration Council, whose research supports Villaraigosa’s claim. He said he’s confident in the work that’s been done and said critics have used anecdotes, rather than full-blown research, to try to make their points.
Ewing added that the studies backing up Villaraigosa’s statement are "from such a wide range of researchers using so many different methodologies and sources of data -- not everyone can be wrong."
Our ruling
Villaraigosa said "undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."
He cited a 2015 study by the National Academy of Sciences that backs up this claim.
In a fact check last year, PolitiFact rated a similar claim Mostly True. It cited additional studies by scholars and partisan groups that show that the foreign-born population is less likely to commit crimes than the native-born.
It also found that researchers agree more data is needed to get a better understanding of immigration and crime. It said this was a needed clarification.
PolitiFact California agrees with these findings.
We rated Villaraigosa’s claim Mostly True.
MOSTLY TRUE – The statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information.
Click here for more on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.
UPDATE: We have added information to the ‘Our research’ section of this fact check from a March 2017 study by the libertarian Cato Institute. The study’s findings provide additional evidence backing up Villaraigosa’s claim that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born.
Share The Facts
Antonio Villaraigosa
Candidate for California governor
"Undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."
Monday, July 31, 2017
PolitiFact California is fact-checking claims in the 2018 California governor's race through our Tracking The Truthseries.
Hear a claim you want fact-checked? Email us at [email protected], tweet us @CAPolitiFact or contact us on Facebook.
Eli Flesch, Chris Nichols
Edited by: Gregory Favre
Subjects: Corrections and Updates, Crime,Immigration, The 2018 California Governor's Race
Sources:
Antonio Villaraigosa, interview on MSNBC, July 31, 2017
Michelle Yeung, campaign spokeswoman for Antonio Villaraigosa, interview Aug. 2, 2017
Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council, interview, Aug. 3, 2017
Cato Institute, "Criminal Immigrants: Their Numbers, Demographics, and Countries of Origin," March 15, 2017
Center for Immigration Studies, "Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue," November 2009
The Pew Research Center: "Crime rises among second-generation immigrants as they assimilate," October 15, 2013
The New York Times, "Contrary to Trump’s Claims, Immigrants Are Less Likely to Commit Crimes," January 26, 2017
National Bureau of Economic Research, "Why are immigrants’ incarceration rates so low? Evidence on selective immigration, deterrence, and deportation," July 2007
The Hill, "DOJ releases data on incarceration rates of illegal immigrants," May 2, 2017
The Los Angeles Times, "Immigrants don't commit more crimes. Why does the myth persist?" September 6, 2016
PolitiFact, "Libertarian candidate says Mexican immigrants more law-abiding than U.S. citizens," July 14, 2016.
PolitiFact, "Trump immigration claim has no data to back it up," July 6, 2015
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, "The Integration of Immigrants into American Society," 2015
How to contact us
We want to hear your suggestions and comments. Email PolitiFact California with feedback and with claims you'd like to see checked. Or tweet us at@CAPolitiFact. To submit a fact-check suggestion, you can also fill out this form. If you send us a comment, we'll assume you don't mind us publishing it unless you tell us otherwise.
Browse The California Truth-O-Meter
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© 2018 • All Rights Reserved • Ta
Undocumented immigrants less likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens
By Chris Nichols on Thursday, August 3rd, 2017 at 4:04 p.m.
Iker Velasquez, 4, who came from Honduras with his parents, holds a U.S. flag as he listens while Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., speaks to the media with children and families from Central America. AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin
Candidate for California governorAntonio Villaraigosa jumped into the nation’s heated debate on immigration reform during a recent interview on MSNBC.
The Democrat and former Los Angeles mayor rejected the idea that deporting undocumented immigrants was a sound strategy for reducing crime.
His statement followed President Trump’s speech about combatting MS-13 gang members. The gang started in poor Los Angeles neighborhoods where many refugees from civil wars in El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua lived in the 1980s. It’s grown into an international criminal organization with more than 30,000.
Trump campaigned on the promise to deport millions of undocumented residents, often describing them as threats to public safety.
Here’s what Villaraigosa said on July 31, 2017 on MSNBC.
"I think we all agree that people that commit violent crimes ought to be deported. But going after the undocumented is not a crime strategy, when you look at the fact that the National Academy of Sciences in, I think it was November of 2015, the undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born. That’s just a fact."
We decided to examine this last point as part of our Tracking The Truth series, which fact-checks claims in the 2018 California governor's race.
We interpreted Villaraigosa’s statement to mean undocumented people commit crimes at a lower rate than the native born.
But we wondered whether this was really a settled matter.
We set out on a fact check.
Our research
We started by checking out the 2015 National Academy of Sciences studyVillaraigosa cited. It found: "Immigrants are in fact much less likely to commit crime than natives, and the presence of large numbers of immigrants seems to lower crime rates." The study added that "This disparity also holds for young men most likely to be undocumented immigrants: Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan men."
It continued: "Today, the belief that immigrants are more likely to commit crimes is perpetuated by ‘issue entrepreneurs’ who promote the immigrant-crime connection in order to drive restrictionist immigration policy."
The academy is a nonprofit research organization charged with providing independent advice to the nation. It is funded largely by the federal government.
Findings in a March 2017 study by the libertarian Cato Institute also support Villaraigosa's statement:
"Illegal immigrants are 44 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal immigrants are 69 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives. Legal and illegal immigrants are underrepresented in the incarcerated population while natives are overrepresented."
The Cato study used information from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey for immigrants aged 18 to 54 who are incarcerated in the United States.
To examine Villaraigosa's claim, we also relied on research into similar claims by our partner national PolitiFact. In July 2016, it rated Mostly True a statement by Libertarian candidate for president Gary Johnson that Mexican immigrants "are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens and that is a statistic."
PolitiFact found several studies that back up this claim by citing incarceration rates. It also found groups that challenged those studies or said more research is needed.
PolitiFact’s findings
PolitiFact pointed to a July 2015 report by the American Immigration Council, a pro-immigrant nonprofit in Washington. The council analyzed data from the Census’ 2010 American Community Survey and found that about 1.6 percent of all immigrant males (Census does not specify legal status) between 18 and 39 years old were incarcerated, compared to 3.3 percent of the native-born population.
Looking at California prisons, immigrants are also underrepresented. U.S.-born men are incarcerated in the state at a rate of more than two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California.
The American Immigration Council also reported that 2010 Census data shows incarceration rates of young, less educated Mexican, Salvadoran and Guatemalan men — which comprise the bulk of the unauthorized population — are "significantly lower" than incarceration rates of native-born young men without a high-school diploma.
Specifically for Mexican men ages 18 to 39, the incarceration rate in 2010 was 2.8 percent, compared to 10.7 percent for native-born men in the same age group, the council’s report said.
Immigrants come to the United States to build better lives for themselves and their children, said Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council and one of the report’s authors.
"They are very motivated to not blow that opportunity by getting in trouble with the police," he told PolitiFact. "This is especially so for unauthorized immigrants, who can be deported at any time for unlawful presence."
Crime trends
PolitiFact also noted that as the immigrant population has increased, crime has gone down, citing Ewing’s report.
Between 1990 and 2013, the foreign-born share of the U.S. population increased from 7.9 percent to 13.1 percent, and the number of unauthorized immigrants went up from 3.5 million to 11.2 million. At the same time, the violent crime rate (murder, rape and aggravated assault) decreased 48 percent and property crime rate fell 41 percent, the report said, citing FBI data.
Bianca E. Bersani, an assistant professor and director of the Criminology and Criminal Justice Program at the University of Massachusetts in Boston, says her research also shows that crime involvement among foreign-born residents is lower than that of U.S.-born citizens.
"The rhetoric of the ‘criminal immigrant’ does not align with the bulk of empirical research," Bersani said.
According to Bersani’s research, while first-generation immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native-born population, the second generation (individuals born in the United States to at least one foreign-born parent) more closely resemble patterns of their native-born peers (three or more U.S.-born generations).
"This does not suggest that the second generation is uniquely crime prone, but instead that they are acting in ways that are no different from the rest of the U.S.-born population," Bersani said.
Datasets with information on both crime and immigrant status are rare, Bersani said, though more research and data are becoming available.
More research needed?
The Center for Immigration Studies, which supports stricter immigration policies, in a 2009 study said that overall understanding of immigrants and crime "remains confused" due to lack of data and contrary information.
Unless inmates are identified as immigrant or native-born, incarceration rates are a poor way to measure links between immigrants and crime, the study said.
As PolitiFact reported in 2015, there isn’t exact data on how many undocumented immigrants are currently incarcerated.
PolitiFact California spoke about this critique with Ewing of the American Immigration Council, whose research supports Villaraigosa’s claim. He said he’s confident in the work that’s been done and said critics have used anecdotes, rather than full-blown research, to try to make their points.
Ewing added that the studies backing up Villaraigosa’s statement are "from such a wide range of researchers using so many different methodologies and sources of data -- not everyone can be wrong."
Our ruling
Villaraigosa said "undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."
He cited a 2015 study by the National Academy of Sciences that backs up this claim.
In a fact check last year, PolitiFact rated a similar claim Mostly True. It cited additional studies by scholars and partisan groups that show that the foreign-born population is less likely to commit crimes than the native-born.
It also found that researchers agree more data is needed to get a better understanding of immigration and crime. It said this was a needed clarification.
PolitiFact California agrees with these findings.
We rated Villaraigosa’s claim Mostly True.
MOSTLY TRUE – The statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information.
Click here for more on the six PolitiFact ratings and how we select facts to check.
UPDATE: We have added information to the ‘Our research’ section of this fact check from a March 2017 study by the libertarian Cato Institute. The study’s findings provide additional evidence backing up Villaraigosa’s claim that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born.
Share The Facts
Antonio Villaraigosa
Candidate for California governor
"Undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than the native born."
Monday, July 31, 2017
PolitiFact California is fact-checking claims in the 2018 California governor's race through our Tracking The Truthseries.
Hear a claim you want fact-checked? Email us at [email protected], tweet us @CAPolitiFact or contact us on Facebook.
Eli Flesch, Chris Nichols
Edited by: Gregory Favre
Subjects: Corrections and Updates, Crime,Immigration, The 2018 California Governor's Race
Sources:
Antonio Villaraigosa, interview on MSNBC, July 31, 2017
Michelle Yeung, campaign spokeswoman for Antonio Villaraigosa, interview Aug. 2, 2017
Walter A. Ewing, a senior researcher at the American Immigration Council, interview, Aug. 3, 2017
Cato Institute, "Criminal Immigrants: Their Numbers, Demographics, and Countries of Origin," March 15, 2017
Center for Immigration Studies, "Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue," November 2009
The Pew Research Center: "Crime rises among second-generation immigrants as they assimilate," October 15, 2013
The New York Times, "Contrary to Trump’s Claims, Immigrants Are Less Likely to Commit Crimes," January 26, 2017
National Bureau of Economic Research, "Why are immigrants’ incarceration rates so low? Evidence on selective immigration, deterrence, and deportation," July 2007
The Hill, "DOJ releases data on incarceration rates of illegal immigrants," May 2, 2017
The Los Angeles Times, "Immigrants don't commit more crimes. Why does the myth persist?" September 6, 2016
PolitiFact, "Libertarian candidate says Mexican immigrants more law-abiding than U.S. citizens," July 14, 2016.
PolitiFact, "Trump immigration claim has no data to back it up," July 6, 2015
National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, "The Integration of Immigrants into American Society," 2015
How to contact us
We want to hear your suggestions and comments. Email PolitiFact California with feedback and with claims you'd like to see checked. Or tweet us at@CAPolitiFact. To submit a fact-check suggestion, you can also fill out this form. If you send us a comment, we'll assume you don't mind us publishing it unless you tell us otherwise.
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So what ethic group is least sketchy? Can't wait to hear the ignorance that comes out of your mouth lol.
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Everyone ancestors than committed crime when invading different cultures and lands lol. You are no better then others lol. I welcome everyone who is trying to live a productive life.
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Upon conviction a hefty fine, conditional discharge, education program, mandatory installation of an ignition interlock device.
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Mental gymnastics 101.
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People who drive drunk are pathetic and should be punished to the full extent of the law if they kill or injure another person . . .
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Truth hurts but you must move on and accept that you are no better than others who don't look like you, act like you or share the same beliefs. You be surprised how much you have in common with them lol.
