Cold War between various MMA Organizations, who will come on top ? (2025-2030)

[Ara tech]

Officialy there is nothing going on behind the scene, but unofficialy it's another story.

An insider reporter that there is a huge dislike, hatred, greed and fear going on between these MMA organizations who appear to work similar as mafia.
The UFC is clearly the biggest octopus with the biggest audience and revenue and the roster with the most depth.

Will the UFC monopoly ends and the world of MMA will be shattered into an oligopoly ?

ACA has a better control of russian MMA than the UFC, and KSW eastern europe. One territory is south east Asia. PFL is the only rival that competes with the UFC in the US. Bellator is a future sunken boat. GFL will try emerge in 2025, they want to make a franchise they said, but with the way they are making move revealed more than they thave too much ambition that they can afford.

Money speak for itself after all the only way to thrive is to be able to sustain yourself in the long run. All these organizations have controversies, and some of them are tied to money laundering schemes.
But is that important to know ? Absolutely not. The source of money is irelevant, only money is not.

So, who do you think will come on top in the next five years ?

The UFC will still be number one of course, it would be foolish to think otherwise, but who will errupt as number two ?
Bellator will collapse eventually it can't just end good
PFL will remain the main rival of the UFC, signing talents all over the world
One will grasp more control over the asian market and keeping raising funds from shady investors
ACA will develop more of their roster in depth, very stable fundings
GFL will fail miserably

An insider reported that there is a hidden cold war between One and the UFC. The UFC aggressively is trying to establish itself in China, but there is clearly a lack of chinese fighters. One on the other hand is trying to schedule event in US soil. That insider also claimed that the UFC is the best, not because they are doing the best but because they were first before the others. He may be not wrong, as we saw, many of world class promising prospects were not signed in the UFC, and many drew conclusions : "They are too big to care about everyone" "They don't want the best anymore, only the cheapest".

In the end of the day, who will have the best most competitive roster ? The organization that signs the best prospects indeed. Quality over Quantity always. There are at least today as we speak five prospects per weightclass who had proved to be potential future elite worldclass fighters. But most of them are not even getting in touch with these big organizations.

Because the big organizations fighters main priority is not signing fighters, but market shares, audience, and raising funds from investors. But in the end, you need to have a product to sell, having a product and not being able to sustain it and sell it would be a disaster, but being able to have a product and not be able to sell it is worth the same, nothing. It will be about finding balance between the two.

GFL will fail, why ? 90% of the money they invested are on old retired washed up fighters who are in despair for an easy paycheck, post prime fighters who lost their appetite for greatness.
When you invest on the past generation, only the past belongs to you. It would be wiser to invest on the future, make it mandatory to sign half of your fighers below 27 years old, so they can last.

Bellator used to pay Gegard Mousasi 700K dollars per fight. And he complained about wanting more money. 700K dollars ? It's enough to bring a dozen of killers young prospects from all around the globe, make them fight each others two times. DId Mousasi draw any crowd ? Did Bellator made any money back with Mousasi ? No.

PFL gave millions to Ngannou. And now I'm sure they regret it. It was a disaster. With millions of dollars, you could easily sign forty fifty fighters, prospects, young, undefeated or a few losses record who still will be in the game in the next 7 10 years.

When I look at Bellator and PFL, the only thing I see is bad move. Yaroslav Amosov was 24-0 when he faced Logan Storley (11-0). Zero promotion, before the fight, zero promotion after the fight, even months after, even for the people who knew Yaroslav and Logan, they didn't even knew that they had fought. Shamil Musaev was (19-0) when he fought Magomed Umalatov (17-0), no-one even knew the fight happened in the first place. Shamil Musaev fighting for PFL is the best P4P welterweight in the world, clearly, but he is less known than any fighters of the top 10 of the welterweight division.

An insider reported that, the UFC still to this day cast a shadow on all others organizations.

So, what do you think ? Who will emerge on top in 2030 ? Will Bellator and PFL continue to make bad moves ? Right now the UFC is not feeling threatened by it's rivals, but soon it will. The world is a small place, and everyone is ruled by greed.











Four organizations are considred big worldwide :
#1 UFC
#2 PFL
#3 One
#4 ACA

KSW and Rizin and others are considered as medium. Rizin only want to develop japanese MMA and has not intention to compete as a dominant global power, Rizin CEO is in good terms with Dana?
Chatri and Davis are hostile to Dana as much Dana is hostile to them. Khasiev is more neutral to all. Who shall become the king of all ? Or will they all continue to rule over their kindgom ?
I hope PFL and ACA and One outgrow the UFC, to make the world an oligopoly and thus a better place. I will leave you to formulate your own opinion. Thank you for your time reading this.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Nobody is going to challenge the UFC. The thing to do for everyone else is to get big in a market they don't go to often enough and then stick to that market. That's what KSW and RIZIN did and it's what Oktagon seem to be doing.

 

[Ara tech]

Nobody is going to challenge the UFC. The thing to do for everyone else is to get big in a market they don't go to often enough and then stick to that market. That's what KSW and RIZIN did and it's what Oktagon seem to be doing.

KSW has more ambition than Rizin. Rizin only cares about nurturing japanese mma talents to help them develop to get to the UFC, that was the claim of RIzin CEO.

But let me tell you that KSW is more aggressive, and wants to conquer Europe instead of limiting itself to Poland and eastern europe. For instance, KSW did the right move with keeping Parnasse and use him as a pawn to promote events in Paris, France.

KSW has the aim to be big in Europe, and One and the UFC are desesperatly fighting for the chinese market which is huge.
China should make it's own MMA organization, the very least be would be a chinese ACA like organizations. Control your own market should be a must.

In the next twenty years, MMA market will grow per 3, and MMA will be the biggest combat sport far ahead of boxing who was there for centuries.

Glory to MMA ! Glory to the alternatives ! Death to UFC evil monopoly !

 

[Mick Dojang]

I would be interested to see how much Pride was making at its peak vs UFC at the time

Packing out the Tokyo dome must have brought in some serious cash. If Rizin can do the same (or better) consistently over the next 5-10 years it could be very successful in business terms even if it's mainly catered towards the Japan casual/international hardcore market, i.e. rival UFC on a cash basis without ever dethroning it for global cultural relevance.

At present the only MMA-first promotion that intends to have a global audience is PFL, and I really don't see it dominating UFC for now. But with UFC quickly gaining a reputation for slow, boring cards, all it would take is a few banger events to start changing that dynamic.

ONE is the only promotion with anything approaching global cultural relevance but if we're being honest, it's mainly a Muay Thai promotion made more exciting for MMA viewers (4oz gloves etc), its MMA is sadly an afterthought.

 

[TorontoTO]

KSW has more ambition than Rizin. Rizin only cares about nurturing japanese mma talents to help them develop to get to the UFC, that was the claim of RIzin CEO.

But let me tell you that KSW is more aggressive, and wants to conquer Europe instead of limiting itself to Poland and eastern europe. For instance, KSW did the right move with keeping Parnasse and use him as a pawn to promote events in Paris, France.

KSW has the aim to be big in Europe, and One and the UFC are desesperatly fighting for the chinese market which is huge.
China should make it's own MMA organization, the very least be would be a chinese ACA like organizations. Control your own market should be a must.

In the next twenty years, MMA market will grow per 3, and MMA will be the biggest combat sport far ahead of boxing who was there for centuries.

Glory to MMA ! Glory to the alternatives ! Death to UFC evil monopoly !

Rizin is holding an event in Korea in May. Rizin is the way better and more popular mma promotion if we are just talking strictly mma

 

[Hellowhosthat]

KSW has more ambition than Rizin. Rizin only cares about nurturing japanese mma talents to help them develop to get to the UFC, that was the claim of RIzin CEO.

But let me tell you that KSW is more aggressive, and wants to conquer Europe instead of limiting itself to Poland and eastern europe. For instance, KSW did the right move with keeping Parnasse and use him as a pawn to promote events in Paris, France.

KSW has the aim to be big in Europe, and One and the UFC are desesperatly fighting for the chinese market which is huge.
China should make it's own MMA organization, the very least be would be a chinese ACA like organizations. Control your own market should be a must.

In the next twenty years, MMA market will grow per 3, and MMA will be the biggest combat sport far ahead of boxing who was there for centuries.

Glory to MMA ! Glory to the alternatives ! Death to UFC evil monopoly !

KSW seems to be sticking with Poland and France. It seems to have ceded Czech Republic and Germany to Oktagon.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Piggybacking off of other posts, RIZIN expects 70k in the Tokyo Dome this summer.

 

[skylolow]

I would be interested to see how much Pride was making at its peak vs UFC at the time

Packing out the Tokyo dome must have brought in some serious cash. If Rizin can do the same (or better) consistently over the next 5-10 years it could be very successful in business terms even if it's mainly catered towards the Japan casual/international hardcore market, i.e. rival UFC on a cash basis without ever dethroning it for global cultural relevance.

At present the only MMA-first promotion that intends to have a global audience is PFL, and I really don't see it dominating UFC for now. But with UFC quickly gaining a reputation for slow, boring cards, all it would take is a few banger events to start changing that dynamic.

ONE is the only promotion with anything approaching global cultural relevance but if we're being honest, it's mainly a Muay Thai promotion made more exciting for MMA viewers (4oz gloves etc), its MMA is sadly an afterthought.

Pride's peak the biggest media deal they had was Fuji TV at a reported 20M a year and South Korea was second biggest at a reported 5M. Not much after that for media revenue. Yes, they packed arenas but the cost many times was still way cheaper than the UFC back in 2005. Back on the day on here some people were reporting you could get tickets for free for many events(not great seats or anything) or they did like one ticket get 3 free things. There PPV's sales were between 5K and 30K for most events and around 10K to 15K was very popular area, once again, rumored. Overall, I think a realistic yearly revenue at there peak might of been 50m to 60M in 2006ish. Problem is by 2007 UFC was 250M and 300M in 08 and up and up and up. Sak even mentioned Pride could no longer afford to compete for top fighters against the UFC if the UFC wanted the fighter.

 

[skylolow]

TS...........Cold war is over. The UFC won and no one will ever touch it or even come close. Landscape of the MMA will remain the way it is for decades and all that will change is the names of the orgs below the UFC. It doesn't even seem like these smaller orgs even seem to compete with each other. They all kind found there own littler regional niche outside of the PFL.

These other orgs literally fight for scraps. They find a small niche in there home markets and that is about it. PFL spreads around but not with much fan fare.

I don't think the UFC's desire to get in China market is as great as it was years ago. They surely don't try to hard to make sure they put shows there to often. UFC simply wants to go where they can make the most money, even with in the US at many times. Grass roots building in a certain country is long gone for them. Only time the UFC goes into a new country is if a new media deal was signed and that is the incentive for them to go there. Otherwise every where else is what will you give us to bring a UFC event to you.

With all that said, these small orgs can find success in small doses. Like KSW does. Fans on here hate when orgs try to be the UFC but then hate on them for doing anything different than the UFC or hate on them for every move they make. PFL signing Francis is a perfect example. Instead of being happy for Francis and an org willing to actually be a player for a top HW fighter, many fans just bitched that it was the worse thing ever. These orgs can't win with fans, it is a simple as that. The UFC gives 99% of fans more than enough MMA content that they don't care about what anyone else is doing.


P.S.: Fans now are bitching about PFL lowering tournament pay down to 500K. But the reality is PFL is pivoting and making smart business decision here. After absorbing Bellator they have many fighters that are above the tournament setting. Even some of there own homegrown fighters have grown sick of it. They want somewhere else to fight. Well, now you'll see PFL have more stand alone events with their best fighters fighting. Money for that has to come from somewhere. Seems like an easy choice to lower the tournament pay and have the tournaments be more for up and comers. PFL learned nobody is paying to watch nobodies fight in a tournament and paying them 1M hasn't attracted stars to join the PFL for that purpose.

 

[Mick Dojang]

Pride's peak the biggest media deal they had was Fuji TV at a reported 20M a year and South Korea was second biggest at a reported 5M. Not much after that for media revenue. Yes, they packed arenas but the cost many times was still way cheaper than the UFC back in 2005. Back on the day on here some people were reporting you could get tickets for free for many events(not great seats or anything) or they did like one ticket get 3 free things. There PPV's sales were between 5K and 30K for most events and around 10K to 15K was very popular area, once again, rumored. Overall, I think a realistic yearly revenue at there peak might of been 50m to 60M in 2006ish. Problem is by 2007 UFC was 250M and 300M in 08 and up and up and up. Sak even mentioned Pride could no longer afford to compete for top fighters against the UFC if the UFC wanted the fighter.

Now that you mention it, both Rizins PPVs and tickets (I think) are cheaper than UFC as well at present.

I actually think they price it at a point where it's worth paying for rather than pirating, but if Dana charges 3x the price he only needs 1/3 the (paying) audience, and he probably still gets a multiple of Rizin's buys

So by that metric Sakakibara would have to start price gouging to close the gap, which I can't imagine him doing at the moment. But with any luck they're making enough profit to keep expanding consistently - even that puts them ahead of loss leaders like PFL and ONE

 

[leto1776]

PFL will remain the main rival of the UFC, signing talents all over the world

PFL is not a rival to the UFC, at all. Maybe for signing fighters, but that’s about to end

One will grasp more control over the asian market and keeping raising funds from shady investors

Yeah, you haven’t been paying attention. ONE has almost no control over the Asian market, and if anything, is losing what they have.

ACA will develop more of their roster in depth, very stable fundings

Okay, but outside of a few hipster fans, who will care?

GFL will fail miserably

Maybe, maybe not. I find it weird people almost gleefully say this kind of thing, though.

Four organizations are considred big worldwide :
#1 UFC
#2 PFL
#3 One
#4 ACA

PFL is kind of a joke. Even with the Saudi’s, they have to reduce the grand prize, which is the only interesting thing they offer. Word is out on ONE, Chatri almost didn’t obtain funding this last time around, and everyone knows fighters signed to them are sitting on the sidelines collecting rust. ACA? Don’t make me laugh. It was a Oligarch’s plaything, turned dictator’s plaything, and while they are good at scouting local talent, only the dorkiest of mma dorks follow it.

 

[Lycandroid]

I think PFL and GFL will be gone by 2030. One will have not had any mma fights in years and UFC will have put together pro wrestling/mma crossover cards

 

[Tokoloko]

Officialy there is nothing going on behind the scene, but unofficialy it's another story.

An insider reporter that there is a huge dislike, hatred, greed and fear going on between these MMA organizations who appear to work similar as mafia.
The UFC is clearly the biggest octopus with the biggest audience and revenue and the roster with the most depth.

Will the UFC monopoly ends and the world of MMA will be shattered into an oligopoly ?

ACA has a better control of russian MMA than the UFC, and KSW eastern europe. One territory is south east Asia. PFL is the only rival that competes with the UFC in the US. Bellator is a future sunken boat. GFL will try emerge in 2025, they want to make a franchise they said, but with the way they are making move revealed more than they thave too much ambition that they can afford.

Money speak for itself after all the only way to thrive is to be able to sustain yourself in the long run. All these organizations have controversies, and some of them are tied to money laundering schemes.
But is that important to know ? Absolutely not. The source of money is irelevant, only money is not.

So, who do you think will come on top in the next five years ?

The UFC will still be number one of course, it would be foolish to think otherwise, but who will errupt as number two ?
Bellator will collapse eventually it can't just end good
PFL will remain the main rival of the UFC, signing talents all over the world
One will grasp more control over the asian market and keeping raising funds from shady investors
ACA will develop more of their roster in depth, very stable fundings
GFL will fail miserably

An insider reported that there is a hidden cold war between One and the UFC. The UFC aggressively is trying to establish itself in China, but there is clearly a lack of chinese fighters. One on the other hand is trying to schedule event in US soil. That insider also claimed that the UFC is the best, not because they are doing the best but because they were first before the others. He may be not wrong, as we saw, many of world class promising prospects were not signed in the UFC, and many drew conclusions : "They are too big to care about everyone" "They don't want the best anymore, only the cheapest".

In the end of the day, who will have the best most competitive roster ? The organization that signs the best prospects indeed. Quality over Quantity always. There are at least today as we speak five prospects per weightclass who had proved to be potential future elite worldclass fighters. But most of them are not even getting in touch with these big organizations.

Because the big organizations fighters main priority is not signing fighters, but market shares, audience, and raising funds from investors. But in the end, you need to have a product to sell, having a product and not being able to sustain it and sell it would be a disaster, but being able to have a product and not be able to sell it is worth the same, nothing. It will be about finding balance between the two.

GFL will fail, why ? 90% of the money they invested are on old retired washed up fighters who are in despair for an easy paycheck, post prime fighters who lost their appetite for greatness.
When you invest on the past generation, only the past belongs to you. It would be wiser to invest on the future, make it mandatory to sign half of your fighers below 27 years old, so they can last.

Bellator used to pay Gegard Mousasi 700K dollars per fight. And he complained about wanting more money. 700K dollars ? It's enough to bring a dozen of killers young prospects from all around the globe, make them fight each others two times. DId Mousasi draw any crowd ? Did Bellator made any money back with Mousasi ? No.

PFL gave millions to Ngannou. And now I'm sure they regret it. It was a disaster. With millions of dollars, you could easily sign forty fifty fighters, prospects, young, undefeated or a few losses record who still will be in the game in the next 7 10 years.

When I look at Bellator and PFL, the only thing I see is bad move. Yaroslav Amosov was 24-0 when he faced Logan Storley (11-0). Zero promotion, before the fight, zero promotion after the fight, even months after, even for the people who knew Yaroslav and Logan, they didn't even knew that they had fought. Shamil Musaev was (19-0) when he fought Magomed Umalatov (17-0), no-one even knew the fight happened in the first place. Shamil Musaev fighting for PFL is the best P4P welterweight in the world, clearly, but he is less known than any fighters of the top 10 of the welterweight division.

An insider reported that, the UFC still to this day cast a shadow on all others organizations.

So, what do you think ? Who will emerge on top in 2030 ? Will Bellator and PFL continue to make bad moves ? Right now the UFC is not feeling threatened by it's rivals, but soon it will. The world is a small place, and everyone is ruled by greed.

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Four organizations are considred big worldwide :
#1 UFC
#2 PFL
#3 One
#4 ACA

KSW and Rizin and others are considered as medium. Rizin only want to develop japanese MMA and has not intention to compete as a dominant global power, Rizin CEO is in good terms with Dana?
Chatri and Davis are hostile to Dana as much Dana is hostile to them. Khasiev is more neutral to all. Who shall become the king of all ? Or will they all continue to rule over their kindgom ?
I hope PFL and ACA and One outgrow the UFC, to make the world an oligopoly and thus a better place. I will leave you to formulate your own opinion. Thank you for your time reading this

After 15 sec of reading - No... ACA have no chance to compete with UFC - Mainly after majority of EU fighters left them. Also there is literally no one who could possible compete with UFC on their market - US...absolutely no one. Only "promotion war" iam seeing right now is KSW vs OKTAGON "fighting" over regions in Europe. - KSW better fighter service, OKTAGON better show... Only one promotion which could possibly endanger UFC is ONEfc but they have no reason to risk financial loss due to nonsense expansion to US..

 

[David R]

I expect TKO to buy ONE Championship it is not an MMA organization anymore... more of a Muay Thai promotion. And Dana says all combat sports will be under tko banner by end of year. Think Chartri will like this as never really competed with ufc but only respected them and no one else.

So think what your hearing is very false.

ONE championship has Karate Combat as their only real hater though RIZIN is not a fan of ONE either.

KSW has their own thing going on use of steroids and strong man guys keep their fans loyal. ACA is all Russian with only an occasional foreigner. Russia also use of steroids is common so most would not welcome the move to ufc. ACA also owned by crazy warlord guy so can never really get the world stage.

PFL is changing and adapting if they can keep the money coming in and keep it clean and better match making and focus on Europe they could really become a number 2 with respect.

 

[STAY GOLD]

Only one promotion which could possibly endanger UFC is ONEfc but they have no reason to risk financial loss due to nonsense expansion to US..

ONE isn’t and will never be competition to the UFC and they will never “endanger” the UFC even if they try to expand to the US.

I don’t want to dunk on ONE, but they are such a niche organization in a niche sport that folks still refer to them as ONE FC even though they changed their name to ONE Championship years ago.

 

[STAY GOLD]

only the dorkiest of mma dorks follow it.

Let’s be fair, that’s basically the sentiment to following any MMA organization outside of the UFC.

 

[leto1776]

Let’s be fair, that’s basically the sentiment to following any MMA organization outside of the UFC.

ACA invites a special kind of dork, an absolute hipster, if you will.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

ACA invites a special kind of dork, an absolute hipster, if you will.

They've got a lot of high level fighters. Why wouldn't a fan of MMA follow them?

 

[Bubzeh]

ACA invites a special kind of dork, an absolute hipster, if you will.

Strong disagree on the term hipster I think. Dork is kinda okay... Nerd perhaps... Weirdo, definately.

I'd say the hipsters in MMA would lean more towards these flashy orgs that throw wild press conferences and plan arena shows etc. KSW / OKTAGON??... PFL to an extent. They pump up the marketing to catch the small fish. "Oh we've got Francis here for a fight, TUNE IN". No thanks.

I do not and have never seen ACA as a trend. It's just a gritty, back alley bar. A classically British reference would be a working mens club. Some examples for reference below:

Working mens club (ACA):



Hipster style establishment (KSW/OKTAGON/PFL):



Edit:

This then leads me to wondering what the UFC is... Perhaps a Weatherspoon's. Maybe even leans towards a Bistro too... Hmm...

 

[Ara tech]

If that thread was caught by future investors, we would give a bad image to "rivals" of the UFC.

I think that if, One is capable of building national superstar to nationalist asian countries and marketing them to the world, like Manny Pacquiao was marketed to his country, a bit like they did with team Lakay. They made a bit of money with the filipinos in One. The only way to be profitable on the long run is by using nationalism to draw crowd by making event in nationalistic countries.

The example would be to build an indonesian superstar, give him two three main events per year in Indonesia, promote him well. Cash out your work.
And do that with every asian country. Attracting millions of views, sponsors, and more investors, and especially more money launderers.
The problem is that the talent pool is poor in these countries, even though that things are getting better over time.

Poland is very nationalistic, people support their Polish athletes like their own breath, no wonder why KSW is capable of selling crowds of thousands and a bit of PPV. KSW is making millions every years. It's a good thing for eastern european MMA.

My prediction with ACA, is that it in the next ten years, they are going to have one of the toughest competitive roster worldwide. ACA will be what the russian freestyle national freestyle wrestler is to the freestyle wrestling olympic gold medalist. The most scariest new generation of fighter that is coming is from Russia, mainly.

I really want One and PFL to succeed over the evil UFC. Monopoly give too much power, and power can only leads to abuse.

When I said a cold war between organizations, I meant it. Why ? An insider told me that MMA is going to grow x3 in the next 20/30 years. Not only they are fighting for the market of today, but also for the market shares that will be. Of Course the UFC is the leader number one and will remain, but others organizations will continue to develop their rosters.