Climate Change

[SandisLL]

Don't worry about holes in roof.
With good materials and workers you will be safe for next 10-25 years....

Different thing is about ROI and pros/ cons if you will connect this as micro generator to grid....
Then there will be " nice " contract "...

Also stuff isn't cheap....
Inverter....if hybrid...is expensive + if you will charge accumulators ....these are expensive...
Etc stuff...

Some ppl just are using solar panels as electricity source to heat water in boiler and are installing heat accumulator...buying add insulation for this stuff...

While IMHO for water heating solar collectors are better: no electricity....
Ofc anyway there will be expenses for installation and " boiler " ....if heat acc then even more....
Still electricity isn't cheap and natural gas too...even wood fuel looks that will not be cheap...
Hot water ppl usually more are using im hot summer...when water level in rivers isn't high and a lot of power plants does have maintenance period to prepare for winter...
Even a lot of dams does have up keep maintenance scheduled in hot, warm and dry summer periods...

 

[ShadowRun]

Don’t worry those fires are good for the environment

 

[Beechwood]

I've seen a few different write ups comparing the cause of death between cold and hot climate. The cold causes the death of far more people than a hot climate, but the ratio can differ on what is reported. One quick mention on this, with the possibility that up to 20 times as many people pass away from a cold environment according to one study ~


Will it be a long, cold, lonely winter for Europe?

https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._be_a_long_cold_lonely_winter_for_europe.html

excerpt:

.....Summer heat is annoying, but winter cold is deadly. A study published in The Lancet found, “Cold weather is 20 times as deadly as hot weather.” This report reinforced up a U.S. study from the National Center for Health Statistics, which found that, “cold kills more than twice as many Americans as heat.”

Do we have idiots in charge or is this part of a coordinated effort toward a “great reset”?

These two Newsweek headlines suggest idiocy. On August 25, “As California bans new gas car sales by 2035, which states could be next?” Six days later, on August 31, Newsweek, without a bit of irony, ran this headline, “Californians told not to charge electric cars days after gas car sales ban.”

California currently has 18 million registered automobiles, with 13 percent plug in electric. California can’t charge 2 million of its cars during hot or cold weather. How will this work when there are 18 or 20 million electric vehicles? Will the media ask? Will Democrats answer?

While Europe and other developed countries tilt at windmills, everyone should bundle up and collect firewood as they prepare for a long cold lonely winter.

 

[Fergelmince]

 

[ShadBo]

More extreme weather, you say?

I wonder what climate science has to say about increasing instances of extreme weather...

 

[Fergelmince]

More extreme weather, you say?

I wonder what climate science has to say about increasing instances of extreme weather...

 

[CatchnShoot]

Some of you dumb cunts won't accept the truth until we have fire tornados like they've already had in Oz.

Even then some of you shills will try to blame Wind turbines.

 

[no fat chicks]

Don’t worry those fires are good for the environment

Srsly how can you not make the connection that this isn't disproving climate change?

Also it's not like your constantly posting everytime an ICE generator or vehicle fails

 

[dirtypablo]

Did you even read the article you linked?

 

[ShadowRun]

Srsly how can you not make the connection that this isn't disproving climate change?

Also it's not like your constantly posting everytime an ICE generator or vehicle fails

For every fire and hot day I blame you for eating burgers and having a car. Eat bugs and walk

 

[lilelvis]

You've previously claimed that there was no warming as the you believe all the measurements were fraudulent. The quoted above suggests you now believe the warming is natural. Please clarify which view you have and if you now believe it is natural, where is the extra heat coming from.



Since I don't trust your claims since you didn't know there were wineries in Scandinavia I'm going to need a citation please.



Again, what are you talking about? The find was around Juneau and as you can see the Boreal forest has trees farther north.

These earlier results were updated with newer studies.

https://skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

https://www.earth.columbia.edu/articles/view/3266

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/04122015/medieval/



Greenland is in the North Atlantic, just like many European countries.


Citation please.





Again, let's see it so we can analyze it together.


This is really weird, I checked out your citation and it links certain regions. Why doesn't it cite the regions where there was warming or an overall globe measurement?


Again, why are you focused on the areas that may have not been impacted and not those areas that have, why have you not looked at the overall trend for the earth?


You're going to have to find a culprit for this "Natural Warming" as solar irradiance measurements show it's not the sun. Also again, have you changed your tune and now believe there has been warming but it's merely natural?


https://graminor.no/plant-breeding/cereals/wheat/?lang=en

1) I've never claimed there was no warming. Ever.. We've been warming since the little ice age. I haven't even denied the most recent warming trend. All I've ever believed is that its not a freak anomaly and not out of line with historic norms.

2) I've always been aware of vineyards that produce ice wine in cold regions. It is a specialized process wherein the grapes freeze on the vine, concentrating the low sugar content from an abbreviated growing season. I wasn't aware, in fact, that lower elevations could produce rightful vineyards. Thanks for that. I don't think it negates the evidence of MWP in crop record, though..
https://joannenova.com.au/2012/11/the-message-from-boreholes/

3) Tree line is more than a parallel, elevation is an even greater factor. There are treeless tundra areas in central California. See Mount Whitney, or San Francisco peak in Arizona. There are areas above the tree line in the boreal forest.

4) Those studies seem to be reaching pretty hard to try and prove a hypothesis. The first one is based on a model, which we know suck. (last one wants my info, so no!) I think the pre-politicization studies are far more honest, on both sides of it, which is unfortunate because we do have more tools now. Here's a study on Pacific Ocean temps that leans toward the MWP being evident in fossilized plankton.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/31/new-paper-shows-medieval-warm-period-was-global-in-scope/

5) Yep...

6) You are hear, so I know you have the internet. http://co2science.org/

7) Are you saying that all of Northern Europe is at the same latitude and elevation?

8) You may be more literate on this science (or at least the narrative side) than I. But I will do my best to help.

9) I'm not precisely sure, but I would guess (i didn't write the analysis, obviously) that, as stated, the cited data is taken from areas that have temperature data and not modeled estimates. Heller has a very telling talk on the erring toward warming when estimating temperature in areas of the globe where there are no certified climate stations and how it drives the "global" temperature averages. I know you won't listen to anything Heller unless its cherry-picked by potholer, so I won't link it.

10) See above..

11) I don't know, but I'm not going to alter historic or current temperature records to prove anything. (hello, 40's "blip")

12) Congratulations on those increased productions, we've come a long way with farming technology in the past 50 years, not that I agree with all of the methods. And again, I've never denied that there is warming, I just think it's impact has been greatly exaggerated by activists and politics.

Sorry, I should have multi-quoted from the beginning. My dog time is limited by work so I can't change it now.
Again, sorry for that.

 

[Fergelmince]

Did you even read the article you linked?

 

[no fat chicks]

For every fire and hot day I blame you for eating burgers and having a car. Eat bugs and walk

So you acknowledge climate change is real, but don't want to eat bugs?

Makes sense, most people agree.
What solutions do you have to offer?

 

[Siver!]

That is the worst argument I've seen in this thread.

I'm all for a bit of climate change denial whether it's about the severity OR even the reality, but post real stuff.

Don't just post a raging hate-turd on Twitter, with a response for a hypocritical call for 'honesty' when climate change denial can be traced back to an oilman President in George HW Bush - 'just tell them the science isn't certain and the dummies will fall in line'.

That tweet is devoid of content.

 

[DSOTM]

Some of you dumb cunts won't accept the truth until we have fire tornados like they've already had in Oz.

Even then some of you shills will try to blame Wind turbines.

 

[Fergelmince]

 

[Fergelmince]

Get ready. the blue states are already teeing you up

 

[Zazen]

Get ready. the blue states are already teeing you up

What does this post even mean? Power outages are a thing….. they’re just giving common sense advice. Hell people can save money on their energy bills even if it isn’t to prevent an outage. Stop being weird

 

[FIMN]

What does this post even mean? Power outages are a thing….. they’re just giving common sense advice. Hell people can save money on their energy bills even if it isn’t to prevent an outage. Stop being weird

Think of it this way - the perspective makes perfect sense if you believe that energy is always abundant, has no externalities and that collective action problems either don't exist, or that any individual has the right to do whatever they want regardless of other people.

Basically if you act like a selfish cunt. There's a few in this thread. Drop a link to the daily mail or some random tweet with no intelligent thoughts/commentary (extra points if it shows you have no idea how modern power grids work), then run back to the twitter rage-o-sphere.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

1) I've never claimed there was no warming. Ever.. We've been warming since the little ice age. I haven't even denied the most recent warming trend. All I've ever believed is that its not a freak anomaly and not out of line with historic norms.

Okay, I didn't know this is what you believed. How much warming do you believe is actually happening and do you believe it's purely natural or if it's a mix between natural and anthropogenic (CO2)?

2) I've always been aware of vineyards that produce ice wine in cold regions. It is a specialized process wherein the grapes freeze on the vine, concentrating the low sugar content from an abbreviated growing season. I wasn't aware, in fact, that lower elevations could produce rightful vineyards. Thanks for that. I don't think it negates the evidence of MWP in crop record, though..

Certainly not, but vineyards in Scandinavia certainly show that the region is as warm as the MWP and with no natural mechanism shown as the cause. In fact the globe should be cooling a bit as solar irradiance measurements have shown a decrease in the suns output over the past few decades.

https://joannenova.com.au/2012/11/the-message-from-boreholes/

She uses the graph (I'll try and find the original), which I'm a bit skeptical of but it still says Northern Hemisphere, where are the proxies for the southern hemisphere? You mentioned this was global, correct?

But here is another Northern Hemisphere graph showing the MWP, so I'm not sure why you think scientists are trying to erase it?

3) Tree line is more than a parallel, elevation is an even greater factor. There are treeless tundra areas in central California. See Mount Whitney, or San Francisco peak in Arizona. There are areas above the tree line in the boreal forest.

okay so I looked up the elevation and it's pretty close to sea level. This would make tree population in this location easier, correct?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendenhall_Glacier

Alaska

Mendenhall Glacier (in Tlingit language “Sít”) is a glacier about 13.6 miles (21.9 km) long located in Mendenhall Valley, about 12 miles (19 km) from downtown Juneau in the southeast area of the U.S. state of Alaska

https://elevation.maplogs.com/poi/mendenhall_valley_juneau_ak_usa.108325.html

Elevation of Mendenhall Valley, Juneau, AK, USA
Location: United States > Alaska > Juneau > Juneau >
Longitude: -134.58525
Latitude: 58.3802682
Elevation: 11m / 36feet
Barometric Pressure: 101KPa

4) Those studies seem to be reaching pretty hard to try and prove a hypothesis. The first one is based on a model, which we know suck. (last one wants my info, so no!) I think the pre-politicization studies are far more honest, on both sides of it, which is unfortunate because we do have more tools now. Here's a study on Pacific Ocean temps that leans toward the MWP being evident in fossilized plankton.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/31/new-paper-shows-medieval-warm-period-was-global-in-scope/

Models start off sucking as there is limited data but as time progresses and more data is available they improve. Do you really believe Darwin's theory was more accurate than todays modern synthesis and genetics? Do you believe that Newtonian Dynamics is more a more complete system than Quantum Mechanics? Sure there is always going to be some politicizing and corruption but to believe that 99.99% (don't know the actual number) of all climate scientists and agencies along with all the governments in the UN and now all of the Oil and Gas companies and the Koch Bros are in this grand left wing conspiracy is in my mind ridiculous compared to the alternative.

6) You are hear, so I know you have the internet. http://co2science.org/

I'll give it more of a rundown this weekend when I have more time

7) Are you saying that all of Northern Europe is at the same latitude and elevation?

Not at all, but why didn't you mention elevation in your previous point? What are the latitude and elevation points of the findings, we can compare.

8) You may be more literate on this science (or at least the narrative side) than I. But I will do my best to help.

Well you state that warming during MWP doesn't need to be synchronous, but the global temps do need to be averaged per time period to show a warming trend. Do you agree?

9) I'm not precisely sure, but I would guess (i didn't write the analysis, obviously) that, as stated, the cited data is taken from areas that have temperature data and not modeled estimates. Heller has a very telling talk on the erring toward warming when estimating temperature in areas of the globe where there are no certified climate stations and how it drives the "global" temperature averages. I know you won't listen to anything Heller unless its cherry-picked by potholer, so I won't link it.

10) See above..

You don't believe climate "denialists" may have an agenda as well and may manipulate presented data?

I don't think I've mentioned Potholer, that may have been another poster. I asked you twice about Heller's own article where he states that Mann predicted the 4 degree difference if we got a doubling of atmospheric CO2 as a sort of gotcha. The thing he failed to notice was that we didn't get a doubling of CO2 which makes his "gotcha" extremely strange and ironic. Care to comment on it?

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/climate-change.4123651/page-23#post-168904587

11) I don't know, but I'm not going to alter historic or current temperature records to prove anything. (hello, 40's "blip")

That was a topic of discussion for us in the past and you chose to withdraw if I remember correctly.

12) Congratulations on those increased productions, we've come a long way with farming technology in the past 50 years, not that I agree with all of the methods. And again, I've never denied that there is warming, I just think it's impact has been greatly exaggerated by activists and politics.

Sorry, I should have multi-quoted from the beginning. My dog time is limited by work so I can't change it now.
Again, sorry for that.

I await your statement on how much real warming is happening and what is causing it.