Cesar Gracie Speaks out against "fake belts"

[knoxpk]

What about the blue in 3 weeks? A teacher couldn't even get to know his student in that amount of time.

We have guys at my school who come and go and are very good. They are better than some of our blue belts but because they haven't proved their loyalty my instructor will not promote them until they come consistently. I guess its two different worlds of thoughts at play here.

I can see your point but "proving your layalty" should not be a criteria if I am "Blue belt" Level. I either am or I am not my "loyalty" to you or my race, or my political views or any other non BJJ reason should not determine my rank.

It is different if you want me to teach, or go into business etc.. but when I am paying YOU to teach me and grade me it had better be fair.

Anyway, this is a different topic than the one at hand, I am interested to see if any of his students post here.

 

[Red Harvest]

Unfortunately politics plays a big role in the BJJ community around the world. I am thankful I never got wrapped up in it.

Just train away, dude. You're at a solid academy and are the proud recipient of a Cesar Gracie brown belt. Politics or no, that's an awesome feat.

 

[mmaenthusiastmc]

So... here we go again.
It is public knowledge that Cesar and Crispim do not like each other for a variety of reasons that have been aired all over the internet, thanks to Cesar's students. Who cares??? How many other academies and instructors do the Gracies like???

I am a student of Crispim's and I was at the belt promotions (and as a side note- thank you to Samuel Braga, long time friend and student of Crispim, for coming to the promotions and teaching Crispim's Sunday class for us- that was incredible). More than 70% of his white belts were NOT promoted. I did not see ANYONE who was promoted after a month, even two or three months of having their white belt. I think the one thing that all of Cesar and his student's posts never include, Crispim has been teaching in the US for almost 7 years and many of his students have been training with him for years. So... this misconception that people are getting belts (undeserved) after a matter of weeks is ludicrous and again, another attempt by Cesar to discredit Crispim, a great teacher and an honest and legit jiu jitsu practicioner.

In Cesar's post about a "top student" who got his blue belt in 3 weeks... I would simply say, consider the source. We, locally, ALL know who this is and he was NOT a top student and he was NOT promoted in 3 weeks. He left for other reasons and quite frankly, the academy has been a better place without him.

It is funny that so many people feel the need to trash talk in an attempt to make themselves feel better. Crispim's gym is totally successful and has A LOT of students, both new and experienced, white belt to brown, and the holders of the belts are well deserved. Maybe someday Cesar and his students will mature a bit and focus on their own academy and stop making up these ridiculous lies that seem to pop up every 6 months of so.

Honestly, I think this started again because the brown belt that was promoted was an old Cesar student who chose to leave Cesar. Crispim has created an environment where people like to be, train hard and have fun. Why wouldn't people want to come train there? Students train where they feel comfortable, get great training and enjoy the instructors and team. The gym is legit and Crispim is legit. For those of you who do not know Crispim, you can choose to believe this garbage or you can see what is really happening... a personal feud between Cesar and Crispim that has been brought to the internet because of the Gracie name.

Oh and one more thing... Crispim's lineage is legit, ask Carlos Gracie Jr., Gordo and Ralph Gracie. These are the masters he received his belts from.

 

[Kyuktooki]

Its definitely deeper. IIRC from an old thread, Alex (a onetime instructor at Cesars) started his own school but supposedly did it on the under and when he took off, he took students with him. You know how big Cesar and Ralph are about people they consider "creontes", see BJ and Dave Camarillo.

I don't know much about Cesar and Crispim except what I have seen on a previous thread but I think you can not compare that situation to the situation with BJ Penn, the Camarillo brothers, and numerous others who left Ralph because of his antics. Disloyalty and being fed up with a situation they felt was bad are two very different things.

 

[platfox]

I can see your point but "proving your layalty" should not be a criteria if I am "Blue belt" Level. I either am or I am not my "loyalty" to you or my race, or my political views or any other non BJJ reason should not determine my rank.

It is different if you want me to teach, or go into business etc.. but when I am paying YOU to teach me and grade me it had better be fair.

Anyway, this is a different topic than the one at hand, I am interested to see if any of his students post here.

Yeap, I understand your point as well about either you are deserving of a blue or not, loyalty shouldn't matter. Thats why I said its two worlds of thought. Criteria is set by the instructor doing the promoting, I just pointed out that at the school I attend, we do it differently.

You might not be wrong but I disagree and this is why. Because the student represents the instructor. If the instructor knows nothing about the student except that he can compete with other blue belts, he's taking a big risk by attaching his name to a bunch of students he doesn't know very well.

 

[platfox]

I don't know much about Cesar and Crispim except what I have seen on a previous thread but I think you can not compare that situation to the situation with BJ Penn, the Camarillo brothers, and numerous others who left Ralph because of his antics. Disloyalty and being fed up with a situation they felt was bad are two very different things.

I agree it is different situation but I don't think Ralph or Cesar see it as different. Thats why I said "people they consider" not people who I consider.

 

[knoxpk]

Yeap, I understand your point as well about either you are deserving of a blue or not, loyalty shouldn't matter. Thats why I said its two worlds of thought. Criteria is set by the instructor doing the promoting, I just pointed out that at the school I attend, we do it differently.

You might not be wrong but I disagree and this is why. Because the student represents the instructor. If the instructor knows nothing about the student except that he can compete with other blue belts, he's taking a big risk by attaching his name to a bunch of students he doesn't know very well.

And that is a relevant pov too.

But since we have an actual student at the school we can also see there are 2 sides to every story.

 

[lechien]

What kind of instructor just give a belt to someone he just trained for 3 weeks!

[/IMG]

 

[platfox]

I think part of the problem here is the schools are located so close to one another. Would you consider opening a school or teaching at a school 1 mile away from your rival a "slap in the face" or even somewhat of a challenge?

 

[knoxpk]

I may regret this later, but I doubt it!


Not that any of you know me but as a random internet poster I can say I have trained with Crispim and he is one of the best instructors I had the pleasure of working with.

In particular, he teaches all the basics but he also tailors a game around what YOU like to do with one on one instruction. I have trained with a few big names (IMO anyway) as well as having sat in on a number of other BJJ clubs and Judo clubs and of all of them Alex was the one to really put a personal touch on a students game.

As an example, I have a wrestling base, I have good submission defense and I am not the easiest guy to sweep. I also have a fondness for the near side cradle and front headlocks. HE pulled me aside and showed me the anaconda to compliment this position for me. He also worked with me on passing the half guard with the near side cradle.

The approach I have been most used to is instructors showing a series of moves and counters and they just "allow you" to figure out your game. Alex jumps right in and takes what you already do and tweaks it for you.

To ME that is the sign of a great teacher, and while I dont believe these ridiculous claims of belt giveaways I would NOT be surprised if his students did indeed progress faster do this personal touch that I have not seen alot of coaches use.


Anyway I am sick of all the bashing when all it would take is to go down to the gym and watch a few classes or better yet, train there for a month!

 

[mmaenthusiastmc]

When he was the instructor for Ralph and Barry I do know that Crispim opened up a new academy very close to the one he left and convinced many people to follow him. He then became the head instructor at the UFC Gym which is one mile away from Cesar's (my) academy.

It is a political drama that I don't pay much attention to other than when I get behind a keyboard...:icon_twis

Actually, the academy that Crispim opened was 2 cities away and in between his academy and Barry's academy are Ralph's academy, VIP (Dave Camarillo), Combat Sports (Cesar affiliate), Harding Martial arts, Elite and others. The point being that there are A LOT of local schools and why is it that Crispim is being trashtalked for opening up a school in the city he lives in. Also, the students who came with him to his school are the same students who went with him to Barry's. They are NOT people who he "stole," but people he brought there in the first place.

 

[platfox]

Hey Knox, just so we are clear I'm not taking a side on this situation or bashing Crispim. I never mentioned anything about his ability or credibility. I just disagree with what he is accused of (which i acknowledge may or may not even be true).

 

[lechien]

I think part of the problem here is the schools are located so close to one another. Would you consider opening a school or teaching at a school 1 mile away from your rival a "slap in the face" or even somewhat of a challenge?

promoting someone else students is just asking for problem.

 

[knoxpk]

Hey Knox, just so we are clear I'm not taking a side on this situation or bashing Crispim. I never mentioned anything about his ability or credibility. I just disagree with what he is accused of (which i acknowledge may or may not even be true).

I understand that meng, no worries! It's just that people will form opinions based on posts (propoganda) like this instead of going down and checking it out.

I dont know much about Cesar Gracie aside from the fact that he has some very good students but for some reason I am hesitant to blindly believe someone with the last name "Gracie".

 

[mmaenthusiastmc]

promoting someone else students is just asking for problem.

I agree, however, if a student chooses to leave a school and trains at a different academy for a long time, do they forever become only promotable by their original instructor?

 

[lechien]

I agree, however, if a student chooses to leave a school and trains at a different academy for a long time, do they forever become only promotable by their original instructor?

It is common knowledge that in Brasil, instructor promote their students really quickly to blue belt because once you have a belt, you cannot move team otherwise you are marked as a Creonte.

Once you are Creonte and you move to another team, the Sensei will make him roll with everyone and anyone and he will roll with him at the end and will tap him out 10 times.

It is a process to break him in and to make him understand that he is nothing and a nobody!

 

[Cash Bill 52]

So... here we go again.
It is public knowledge that Cesar and Crispim do not like each other for a variety of reasons that have been aired all over the internet, thanks to Cesar's students. Who cares??? How many other academies and instructors do the Gracies like???

I am a student of Crispim's and I was at the belt promotions (and as a side note- thank you to Samuel Braga, long time friend and student of Crispim, for coming to the promotions and teaching Crispim's Sunday class for us- that was incredible). More than 70% of his white belts were NOT promoted. I did not see ANYONE who was promoted after a month, even two or three months of having their white belt. I think the one thing that all of Cesar and his student's posts never include, Crispim has been teaching in the US for almost 7 years and many of his students have been training with him for years. So... this misconception that people are getting belts (undeserved) after a matter of weeks is ludicrous and again, another attempt by Cesar to discredit Crispim, a great teacher and an honest and legit jiu jitsu practicioner.

In Cesar's post about a "top student" who got his blue belt in 3 weeks... I would simply say, consider the source. We, locally, ALL know who this is and he was NOT a top student and he was NOT promoted in 3 weeks. He left for other reasons and quite frankly, the academy has been a better place without him.

It is funny that so many people feel the need to trash talk in an attempt to make themselves feel better. Crispim's gym is totally successful and has A LOT of students, both new and experienced, white belt to brown, and the holders of the belts are well deserved. Maybe someday Cesar and his students will mature a bit and focus on their own academy and stop making up these ridiculous lies that seem to pop up every 6 months of so.

Honestly, I think this started again because the brown belt that was promoted was an old Cesar student who chose to leave Cesar. Crispim has created an environment where people like to be, train hard and have fun. Why wouldn't people want to come train there? Students train where they feel comfortable, get great training and enjoy the instructors and team. The gym is legit and Crispim is legit. For those of you who do not know Crispim, you can choose to believe this garbage or you can see what is really happening... a personal feud between Cesar and Crispim that has been brought to the internet because of the Gracie name.

Oh and one more thing... Crispim's lineage is legit, ask Carlos Gracie Jr., Gordo and Ralph Gracie. These are the masters he received his belts from.

I just read what Cesar wrote this morning. I had no idea about this. I will have to ask around and see what the deal is. This feud seems silly to me. I have a stake in this community. I have lived in Walnut Creek/Pleasant Hill for 16 years and have taught at the local elementary school for 13 of them.

I started jiu jitsu in 96. (close to 10 years on the mat) For many years I was happy that nobody knew what the hell I was doing. I liked that people thought I did karate. I never talked to my students or their parents about my training.

Now, things are changing. I can't just fly low under the radar forever. This is my hometown. There is a fantastic "way of life" that I have found by training in jiu jitsu. It's so real; A true meritocracy! There is a UFC gym in my town and my jiu jitsu school has two UFC fighters. (Shields/Diaz)

I have to speak up when my way of life is being threatened.

I am sure this will all blow over and everything will be cool. You seem like a good guy defending your coach. I think I would do the same. I can relate to your situation.

Anyway, I gotta go...Peace

 

[Red Harvest]

So... here we go again.
It is public knowledge that Cesar and Crispim do not like each other for a variety of reasons that have been aired all over the internet, thanks to Cesar's students. Who cares??? How many other academies and instructors do the Gracies like???

I am a student of Crispim's and I was at the belt promotions (and as a side note- thank you to Samuel Braga, long time friend and student of Crispim, for coming to the promotions and teaching Crispim's Sunday class for us- that was incredible). More than 70% of his white belts were NOT promoted. I did not see ANYONE who was promoted after a month, even two or three months of having their white belt. I think the one thing that all of Cesar and his student's posts never include, Crispim has been teaching in the US for almost 7 years and many of his students have been training with him for years. So... this misconception that people are getting belts (undeserved) after a matter of weeks is ludicrous and again, another attempt by Cesar to discredit Crispim, a great teacher and an honest and legit jiu jitsu practicioner.

In Cesar's post about a "top student" who got his blue belt in 3 weeks... I would simply say, consider the source. We, locally, ALL know who this is and he was NOT a top student and he was NOT promoted in 3 weeks. He left for other reasons and quite frankly, the academy has been a better place without him.

It is funny that so many people feel the need to trash talk in an attempt to make themselves feel better. Crispim's gym is totally successful and has A LOT of students, both new and experienced, white belt to brown, and the holders of the belts are well deserved. Maybe someday Cesar and his students will mature a bit and focus on their own academy and stop making up these ridiculous lies that seem to pop up every 6 months of so.

Honestly, I think this started again because the brown belt that was promoted was an old Cesar student who chose to leave Cesar. Crispim has created an environment where people like to be, train hard and have fun. Why wouldn't people want to come train there? Students train where they feel comfortable, get great training and enjoy the instructors and team. The gym is legit and Crispim is legit. For those of you who do not know Crispim, you can choose to believe this garbage or you can see what is really happening... a personal feud between Cesar and Crispim that has been brought to the internet because of the Gracie name.

Oh and one more thing... Crispim's lineage is legit, ask Carlos Gracie Jr., Gordo and Ralph Gracie. These are the masters he received his belts from.

Awesome to hear.

 

[Red Harvest]

I just read what Cesar wrote this morning. I had no idea about this. I will have to ask around and see what the deal is. This feud seems silly to me. I have a stake in this community. I have lived in Walnut Creek/Pleasant Hill for 16 years and have taught at the local elementary school for 13 of them.

I started jiu jitsu in 96. (close to 10 years on the mat) For many years I was happy that nobody knew what the hell I was doing. I liked that people thought I did karate. I never talked to my students or their parents about my training.

Now, things are changing. I can't just fly low under the radar forever. This is my hometown. There is a fantastic "way of life" that I have found by training in jiu jitsu. It's so real; A true meritocracy! There is a UFC gym in my town and my jiu jitsu school has two UFC fighters. (Shields/Diaz)

I have to speak up when my way of life is being threatened.

I am sure this will all blow over and everything will be cool. You seem like a good guy defending your coach. I think I would do the same. I can relate to your situation.

Anyway, I gotta go...Peace

Class act.

 

[RibCrusher**]

well, i am going to assume that ceser and crispim are in a close enough vacinity that they will end up competing against each other at comps then you will really see who is legit or not.

If this stuff that cesar says is true, how is this guy not getting his ass kicked by cesar or one of the mayhem stompers?

and as far as someone saying they tend not to believe what a "gracie" says is pretty fucked up as they brought us bjj and of course there are bullshitters like Whorian but there are also standup guys like Renzo.