Social Canada Records Lowest Birthrate, 2nd Year in a Row

I would’ve said the same thing until Fergus shut the house down and Liberals refused to hand over their documents related to SDTC. Now I’m not really sure where they go from here. If they don’t turn the documents over, the government is effectively shut down and the Blocs ultimatum is almost off the table. I guess they could prorogue, but that would also be a death sentence.
I think no one but the Conservatives benefit from an early election call and I believe all the party leaders are savvy enough to know that. I feel pretty confident with that assessment so it will be interesting if I am proved wrong.
 
Kids are expensive so it's not really the messaging that's the problem but the economic realities that drive that message.

There are so many elements to this but they pretty much all circle back to how capitalism has changed social functionality. Single incomes are no longer enough to run households so 2 adults are working. This means women in the workforce and that drives up the cost of daycare and childcare since every subsequent child is a big price increase. The wage stagnation that forced people to acquire more and more skills before they could make enough money to run their own households. People end up wasting their best reproductive years chasing credentials and, once they've done that, they're loathe to give it up to become parents. The casual sex with easily available contraception closed off a major source of kids.

The absurd rate at which the size of new homes has grown. Now starter homes are 2-3x bigger than their predecessors of 50 years ago but people aren't making 2-3x as much money, inflation adjusted, which delays their entry into home ownership and family starting. The defunding of cities, via social movements, of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Cities make sense because population density makes the cost of living cheaper for people who can benefit from it and that makes affording families easier.

We could go on but capitalism has created a world where the pursuit of economic success has so outstripped every other thing that stopping the machine long enough to just have more kids isn't possible.

But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. The world's population needs to decrease and these stories are a sign that said decrease is on its way.

I agree with all the technical points (except I don't have an opinion on if the world needs a population decrease), not so much the emotional ones. Not to say that I think you are off base or wrong, I just think a small but growing gap on a big spectrum - there's a lot of emotional stress that comes with this effect for a lot of people, especially women, and especially older women. People chasing dreams that simply cannot materialize for the vast majority of people, when you invest everything in a career motivated by stories of glass ceiling shattering etc and it starts to stagnate or hit a hitch like it will for most everyone, people are left somewhat shattered.

People seldom want to bring up their disproportionate increase in medication rates. There was a point where increased economic productivity was for sure a huge net positive, but now a spot on the continuity seems to have been passed IMO where so called base needs are easily met but higher ones are not doing well at all. Of course, it's tough to rationalize through data points, but I think there's evidence of increased populist sentiment in our politics, both Sanders-ish (though he's past it) and Trump-ish. There is some "law", can't remember what it's called, but it simply states economic growth can be measured as happening all the time, but happiness ebbs and flows differently. People often say we are just better at diagnosing depression etc but I personally believe there is a casual relationship of today's societal structure which basically comes from corporate board room social engineering overwhelming family and to a degree religious values.
 
It would be insane to say that they are not a big part of the equation, lots of people aren't having kids who would if they could afford to do so.
It's not that big a part. The issue of affordability is much more about the cost of becoming self-sustaining. And that's about the time to acquire high paying skills, the removal of women from the home into the workplace, the cost of childcare, etc.

The housing supply conversation is primarily about the cost of buying a new home. But people can rent homes and have kids. They've been doing it from long before our grandparents were kids. And people would still be doing it, if the other parts of modern life were not so expensive.
 
I agree with all the technical points (except I don't have an opinion on if the world needs a population decrease), not so much the emotional ones. Not to say that I think you are off base or wrong, I just think a small but growing gap on a big spectrum - there's a lot of emotional stress that comes with this effect for a lot of people, especially women, and especially older women. People chasing dreams that simply cannot materialize for the vast majority of people, when you invest everything in a career motivated by stories of glass ceiling shattering etc and it starts to stagnate or hit a hitch like it will for most everyone, people are left somewhat shattered.

People seldom want to bring up their disproportionate increase in medication rates. There was a point where increased economic productivity was for sure a huge net positive, but now a spot on the continuity seems to have been passed IMO where so called base needs are easily met but higher ones are not doing well at all. Of course, it's tough to rationalize through data points, but I think there's evidence of increased populist sentiment in our politics, both Sanders-ish (though he's past it) and Trump-ish. There is some "law", can't remember what it's called, but it simply states economic growth can be measured as happening all the time, but happiness ebbs and flows differently. People often say we are just better at diagnosing depression etc but I personally believe there is a casual relationship of today's societal structure which basically comes from corporate board room social engineering overwhelming family and to a degree religious values.
Agree with some, disagree with some. There is absolutely an emotional stress that comes from stagnating dreams. I'm less inclined to put it at the feet of corporate social engineering. I'd be more inclined to lay it at the feet of post-segregation politicians than corporations. And even then, I'm still more inclined to lay it at the feet of capitalism writ large.

Capitalism is about winners and losers. Everyone talks about the winning but there is very little conversation about what happens when people commit their first 35 years of life towards "winning", only to find out that they are not going to be that winner. The accessible parallel is the aging baseball player. He spends his teens, twenties, thirties, hoping to make it to the majors. By the time he accepts that it's not going to happen, he's already passed his best years for another type of career.

For our society, that results in fewer children because people delay children, waiting for the time they called up to the "majors". By the time they accept that it's not going to happen, reproductive rates are lower, they've become too individualized to become good marital partners, etc.
 
Houses are not 2-3 times bigger than they used to be. They are getting smaller and smaller, there is a bigger and bigger percentage of multi family construction every year.
 
Agree with some, disagree with some. There is absolutely an emotional stress that comes from stagnating dreams. I'm less inclined to put it at the feet of corporate social engineering. I'd be more inclined to lay it at the feet of post-segregation politicians than corporations. And even then, I'm still more inclined to lay it at the feet of capitalism writ large.

Capitalism is about winners and losers. Everyone talks about the winning but there is very little conversation about what happens when people commit their first 35 years of life towards "winning", only to find out that they are not going to be that winner. The accessible parallel is the aging baseball player. He spends his teens, twenties, thirties, hoping to make it to the majors. By the time he accepts that it's not going to happen, he's already passed his best years for another type of career.

For our society, that results in fewer children because people delay children, waiting for the time they called up to the "majors". By the time they accept that it's not going to happen, reproductive rates are lower, they've become too individualized to become good marital partners, etc.

Correct. But it's actually sadder IMO as people are constantly bombarded through media, advertising etc that "making money" should always be your dream by far; so pervasive even children get ingrained with it and partake in making fun of other kids who are of humbler financial means. Limbic capitalism is literally designed to short circuit your brain to drown in over consumption. Anyhow, baseball is a fun game, and people who win, win huge. For the vast majority of the population, work is pretty shitty, and they have constant RBF while doing it, and unlike ball players, they may not even know who their coworkers in the cubicle 15 feet away are (much like they might not know any of their neighbors). For most people, even if they "make it" to the big leagues, they will likely have shit work life balance, and have nearly as big a piece of cheese as an elite baseball player. It gets so ingrained in our society that work addiction and wage theft are so rarely even thought of a serious issues on either side, since unbridled desire to make money, even if it's for the sake of making money and nothing else, isn't looked down as being unhealthy in any serious way. Yet many people pay a very serious price for it.
 
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When I say that cats will eventually drive humans to extinction, I'm not kidding. More and more women are choosing cats over husbands and children and this will only get worse.
- Cats are the solely reason we progreded as species.
This cat looks like mine btw.
 
Correct. But it's actually sadder IMO as people are constantly bombarded through media, advertising etc that "making money" should always be your dream by far; so pervasive even children get ingrained with it and partake in making fun of other kids who are of humbler financial means. Limbic capitalism is literally designed to short circuit your brain to drown in over consumption. Anyhow, baseball is a fun game, and people who win, win huge. For the vast majority of the population, work is pretty shitty, and they have constant RBF while doing it, and unlike ball players, they may not even know who their coworkers in the cubicle 15 feet away are (much like they might not know any of their neighbors). For most people, even if they "make it" to the big leagues, they will likely have shit work life balance, and have nearly as big a piece of cheese as an elite baseball player. It gets so ingrained in our society that work addiction and wage theft are so rarely even thought of a serious issues on either side, since unbridled desire to make money, even if it's for the sake of making money and nothing else, isn't looked down as being unhealthy in any serious way. Yet many people pay a very serious price for it.
It's not even about limbic capitalism. Early American religions preached a rudimentary gospel of prosperity in which those favored by God would be rewarded with economic success. And that God favored hard-working industrious types who put their labor above everything except their godliness. In the US, this model is as old as the country itself.

However, the cost of this has accelerated so technology certainly played a role in that.
 
Yeah. Okay. Canada has one of the better scores for economic freedom. Sounds very socialist.
Canada's problems are;

- cost of living
- a turn away from traditional family values and relationships
- women preferring to have a career instead of children
- doomer ideology like global warming

Based on all these things...including a social safety net. Who the fuck wants to have kids? Even though becoming a father has been the most meaningful thing I've ever done with my life and I find rewards me daily.

Where as your average woke liberal blue haired socialist chick is on depressants while living alone and collecting cats...
 
Indians
I can honestly say Canada no longer feels like Canada. Ita basically India now. Everything has gone to shit

Indians are legit everywhere. They’re. booming in Europe and countries like Australia, NZ and the UK too. Millions immigrating and looking for a way out of India. They make good immigrants and have children which pumps up the population too.

In due time the face of Canada will change drastically. Already see this in parts of the UK, it’s unrecognisable, you’ll struggle to see any Anglo Saxon looking person in many areas.
 
It's not even about limbic capitalism. Early American religions preached a rudimentary gospel of prosperity in which those favored by God would be rewarded with economic success. And that God favored hard-working industrious types who put their labor above everything except their godliness. In the US, this model is as old as the country itself.

However, the cost of this has accelerated so technology certainly played a role in that.

Right, and there was a day where shops would be closed and family would be together and think about God and "duties" to God and at least contemplate about morality, spirituality and the human condition beyond "what do I have to do to get more online likes".
 
Indians


Indians are legit everywhere. They’re. booming in Europe and countries like Australia, NZ and the UK too. Millions immigrating and looking for a way out of India. They make good immigrants and have children which pumps up the population too.

In due time the face of Canada will change drastically. Already see this in parts of the UK, it’s unrecognisable, you’ll struggle to see any Anglo Saxon looking person in many areas.

Unfortunately can't agree with that at all. They don't assimilate at all. They can barely do simple tasks, they refuse to speak English, even at work. Most of them are barely coherent, they lower the standard of everything they touch, they rip you off at every establishment they work at, and they're completely racist and won't hire or rent to white people. They're not good for Canada at all.

Beyond that they spend 50% of their time on the phone talking to relatives in India, even during work.
 
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Well the medical advancements you're talking about happened 250 years after the start of secular humanism and aren't because of it.

Yes they are.

The Enlightenment got the ball rolling towards modern science and the medical advancements we enjoy today.
 
Not really a head scratcher there, buddy. Those images illustrate that before the Enlightenment, human society was far more backward, savage, and immoral than what it is today.

Staying on topic, secular humanism gave us the medical advancements that allowed us to not have to have 12 children because so many died in infancy.
This all just surface level platitudes. What is the grounding for your epistemology? How do you know things have progressed? Not sure how you can answer this as a from your paradigm but I'm interested to see you try.
 
Yes they are.

The Enlightenment got the ball rolling towards modern science and the medical advancements we enjoy today.

And the abacus got the ball rolling toward space travel but one didn't cause the other.
 
I think no one but the Conservatives benefit from an early election call and I believe all the party leaders are savvy enough to know that. I feel pretty confident with that assessment so it will be interesting if I am proved wrong.
Canadians will benefit too.
 
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