can you spot the pattern here?

[Alpha_T83]

You could look at it like Herb Dean is considered the top ref in the game, and they want him reffing the biggest fights. That would make sense why the Athletic Commissions would pick Herb.

If Herb Dean is somehow involved in fixing fights, then the Athletic Commissions would have to be involved as well, since they are the ones assigning referees.

 

[Dionysian]

You really got the UFC that they let Alex KO Jiri again by having Herb ref him instead of Goddard did like last time.

Cool subject change after I point out, over a large random data sample, that your company more than doubles the likelihood Herb is ref whenever they have an interest in who wins the fight. Got any other distractions you want to use for viewers of this thread?

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Herb's one of the OG's, & has risen to the top. Despite his many questionable callz...

...he gives confidence to commissions that hire him... to make sure that he refs their most important event. (the main... especially a high profile main)

It reminds me of business in general... you can't hire a newer guy who you feel will do a better job because if he makes the same mistake the veteran will... then it's your neck on teh chopping block. If you hire the guy who has the most credentials then you are safe... & it's him... the "best choice on paper" ...that failed.

Like it or hate it... that is the way business is done. Politics as well.

 

[markg171]

Cool subject change after I point out, over a large random data sample, that your company more than doubles the likelihood Herb is ref whenever they have an interest in who wins the fight. Got any other distractions you want to use for viewers of this thread?

I do actually.

Why did you flag when Herb reffed these supposed guys but not when he didn't? As already mentioned, Goddard reffed Pereira/Jiri 1 but you didn't mark Pereira as a "clear favourite" there like you did with his other Herb fights like Pereira/Jiri 2. In fact you did the same with Izzy and his fights. Big lol at the double standard you're actively employing.

Why did you leave out other clear favourites like Islam? Was it because he had Goddard and Peterson for his refs and not Herb?

Your thread is cherrypicked shit.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Updated brother. Check out the second post / looks pretty damning. Took some time for me to make that edit since I've been busy with work, but hey, it is a statistically valid point and I do what the people of Sherdog want.

Well you definitely put in the time to do the research.

Now I'm curious to see who refs the Jones/Stipe fight.

 

[Lord Pyjamas]

That was a hard read!
But you are clearly doing the lords work.

 

[Deleted member 491149]

Ufc fans are probably the most gullible sports fan base out there.

1. "PRIDE was corrupt! The owners had yakuza ties" when the fertitas, a billionaire mob family, ran the ufc.

2. No ufc fighter who passes the drug test has ever been on steroids!" This one is pretty self explanatory, I remember when frank Mir gained 30lbs of lean muscle in 5 months between the second Lesnar fight and the carwin fight, there are too many examples to list.

3. "Athletic prime is 35" this one isn't as prevalent as it used to be, but man, when randy "the natty" was still around beating world class guys in his mid 40's it got beyond ridiculous. Anyone who has played any contact sport knows that 30 is universally seen as the beginning of the end for 98% of professional athletes, only the truly elite can continue to produce at the same rate into their mid 30's. This is just common sense, for reference randy STARTED fighting professionally at 35.

4. "UFC fights can't be fixed" just look at Ken shamrock diving before rich even hit him in the main event of the TUF finale. Conor breaking almost every single rule against khabib, while herb just watches like a spectator. Conor vs cowboy... they get in a standing clinch and cowboy just holds Conor, doesn't actively defend himself at all, and gets fucked up by shoulder strikes in a standing clinch, the first time this has ever happened in a fight.


But sure, nothing to see here.

 

[Captain Herb]

Been saying this for years. When the UFC wants a certain outcome they send in Herb to stack the deck. The fight that stands out for me was Ronda when she got absolutely starched by Holly. In that fight he just stared blankly while Holly pummeled her lifeless body before finally and reluctantly calling off the fight. You know he would have ended the fight in Ronda's favor in an instant at the slightest opportunity.

 

[don't ask]

You could look at it like Herb Dean is considered the top ref in the game, and they want him reffing the biggest fights. That would make sense why the Athletic Commissions would pick Herb.

If Herb Dean is somehow involved in fixing fights, then the Athletic Commissions would have to be involved as well, since they are the ones assigning referees.

It's pretty naive to think the UFC doesn't have some influence over the commissions.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Ok, I was skeptical, but willing to accept that TS may be on to something in this thread. However, the three fighters he used as a case study seemed rather cherry-picked. I mean, Sean O'Malley isn't some kind of huge draw or cash cow. And the UFC has pushed other fighters far more than they are pushing O'Malley.

So I looked at the reffing for Brock Lesnar, who the UFC had pushed far more than Jones or O'Malley, two of the subjects of this thread. Here's what I found about who reffed Lesnar's fights:

UFC 81 - Lesnar vs Mir - Steve Mazzagati
UFC 87 - Lesnar vs Herring - Dan Miragliotta
UFC 91 - Lesnar vs Couture - Mario Yamasaki
UFC 100 - Lesnar vs Mir II - Herb Dean
UFC 116 - Lesnar vs Carwin - Josh Rosenthal (this is probably the only one with any controversy, as the ref could have easily stopped the fight when Carwin was pounding Lesnar's face in)
UFC 121 - Lesnar vs Velasquez - Herb Dean
UFC 141 - Lesnar vs Overeem - Mario Yamasaki
UFC 200 - Lesnar vs. Hunt - Dan Miragliotta

So out of the 8 fights with the UFC's biggest cash cow they've ever had, Dean only reffed two of them.

I'm not bothering to take the time to do this with the other superstars, e.g. GSP, Ronda, etc., but I think it's safe to say that the TS has a cool theory......but that it's all BS.

 

[don't ask]

Ok, I was skeptical, but willing to accept that TS may be on to something in this thread. However, the three fighters he used as a case study seemed rather cherry-picked. I mean, Sean O'Malley isn't some kind of huge draw or cash cow. And the UFC has pushed other fighters far more than they are pushing O'Malley.

So I looked at the reffing for Brock Lesnar, who the UFC had pushed far more than Jones or O'Malley, two of the subjects of this thread. Here's what I found about who reffed Lesnar's fights:

UFC 81 - Lesnar vs Mir - Steve Mazzagati
UFC 87 - Lesnar vs Herring - Dan Miragliotta
UFC 91 - Lesnar vs Couture - Mario Yamasaki
UFC 100 - Lesnar vs Mir II - Herb Dean
UFC 116 - Lesnar vs Carwin - Josh Rosenthal (this is probably the only one with any controversy, as the ref could have easily stopped the fight when Carwin was pounding Lesnar's face in)
UFC 121 - Lesnar vs Velasquez - Herb Dean
UFC 141 - Lesnar vs Overeem - Mario Yamasaki
UFC 200 - Lesnar vs. Hunt - Dan Miragliotta

So out of the 8 fights with the UFC's biggest cash cow they've ever had, Dean only reffed two of them.

I'm not bothering to take the time to do this with the other superstars, e.g. GSP, Ronda, etc., but I think it's safe to say that the TS has a cool theory......but that it's all BS.

Or, you could say that they put Herb in against the guy who beat him before and, after he unexpectedly got his ass kicked so badly by Carwin that Carwin tired himself out, they put him in against Cain in case they needed to swing things. However, Cain delivered such a one-sided beating that there was no need to keep pulling strings because Brock was on the skids and it didn't matter if he won or lost matches because they still had marektability with his name.

Not saying this is what happened, just saying it's plausible that they used Herb at key junctures and it never panned out.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Or, you could say that they put Herb in against the guy who beat him before and, after he unexpectedly got his ass kicked so badly by Carwin that Carwin tired himself out, they put him in against Cain in case they needed to swing things. However, Cain delivered such a one-sided beating that there was no need to keep pulling strings because Brock was on the skids and it didn't matter if he won or lost matches because they still had marektability with his name.

Not saying this is what happened, just saying it's plausible that they used Herb at key junctures and it never panned out.

His first three fights in the UFC would have been the most key junctures. You know, so he wouldn't turn out like CM Punk.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Pretty clear message there
"If you work for me in any capacity" and "you approach a referee or judge or any official" then "I will fire you on the spot."

Translation: Know your place dogs / get in line. Note that Hardy did nothing but critique Dean for being incompetent / never even got in his personal space. Dana intentionally chose an abstract word "approach" to make the threat stretch to any fighter publicly contradicting any "official" in any capacity. Message was heard loud and clear after that too considering Hardy has been persona non grata ever since.

It isn't a matter of veterans refs vs amateur refs in general though. It is specific to Herb Dean being applied for one specific goal. There were 9 veteran refs used regularly in 2023 (see above article). All 9 were applied to non-marketing-star fights (Dean included)... but only Dean completely and utterly dominates the schedule for the marketing-star fights. And only Dean has controversy after controversy of altering the fights to maximize the ending result in favor of the marketing star / never EVER acting in favor of the challenger to that marketing star.

Again, if it was incompetence he would be making mistakes on both sides of the aisle. It is NOT incompetence... these "mistakes" are not "mistakes" because they happen over and over and over again systematically towards only ONE predetermined direction EVERY time. This isn't incompetence... it is corruption.

Ummmm..Conor.

Dana chooses when and where to shit on people. He said “if you ever touch an official”. You are fired.

So that’s not true.

Remember when he said if ANY fighter touches another fighter in a face off. They are gone..

Meanwhile Conor throwing kicks at Khabib. And in the trilogy fight with Dustin.

The rules are the rules. Unless you’re a lowlife douchebag that can draw (Conor, and Jones). Then there are no rules. Both should be in jail.

 

[don't ask]

His first three fights in the UFC would have been the most key junctures. You know, so he wouldn't turn out like CM Punk.

That makes sense in your mind, but they may have had other considerations and you can't assume they would approach it like you expect them to.

 

[StonedLemur]

Thx, you just made me colorblind.

lol

 

[Goutfather]

at this point, i’m surprised when corruption isn’t influencing outcomes. one thing i’ve noticed is that the more money is involved, the less risk stakeholders will tolerate. if a successful athlete / politician / celebrity / entrepreneur / company / movie / artist, etc. is worth $100 million+, then it’s worth $10 million to mitigate any risk of failure. there is no “maybe”—it will 100% be rigged, because the power players aren’t gambling with $100 million. with that kind of money, people lose their integrity real fast.

how hard is it to grease a ref, or a judge, or a commission? at lot easier than greasing an election.

 

[Pitier of Fools]

That makes sense in your mind, but they may have had other considerations and you can't assume they would approach it like you expect them to.

None of us know what's going on in their heads. However, the fact is that the Lesnar case data does not support the hypothesis of this thread.

 

[don't ask]

None of us know what's going on in their heads. However, the fact is that the Lesnar case data does not support the hypothesis of this thread.

I can't say if it does or doesn't, but it definitely doesn't disprove it.

 

[The Blue Bird]

Herb the perv

 

[gunlok]

I have a theory that Herb did screw Conor over in Khabib fight. Conor could have get DQ'd and carry the claim over unfair stoppage for the rest of his mma career. Herb made sure that Khabib has an unquestionable win over Conor McGregor. Danis did pretty much that in his recent fight and technically he can always say he never truly lost