can you spot the pattern here?

[Poirierfan]

Also, in before PR accounts attack me personally rather than try to refute any of the facts I posted ITT.

Fuck that, you present a legit argument imo. I always thought Herb was Dana's goon. The Conor/Khabib fight was highly suspicious (that's when my light bulb turned on). I 100% believe that Herb was trying to steer that fight in Conors favor. Fuck both corrupt Herb and Dana while we're at it too. They play us fans for fools, just like this Jones bullshit.

 

[nonoob]

b00tysweat said: very good work thanks for the statistics

After 30 or 40 more instances like those shown, Herb may be need to be looked into.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

I looked at three fighters widely viewed by the UFC to be up and coming marketing stars who then became champions (Conor + Jon + Sean) then I looked at what refs those people got in their fights. The timeline goes from their most recent fight back to when they were first viewed as an emerging star. Notes in green mark specific events that may have changed the UFC's outlook towards that fighter. I can't figure out if there's a pattern but maybe you can help me by looking at the timelines:

CONOR:
Dustin 3 – HERB (couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards)
Dustin 2 – HERB (Dustin complained post-fight about Herb’s bias allowing Conor to cheat in-cage)
Cerrone – HERB (arguably the one time Herb wasn’t even needed, but he was there anyway)
Khabib – HERB (arguably most documented instance of fight doctoring via a ref allowing cheating... possibly in all of MMA history)
Eddie – Big John
Diaz 2 – Big John
Diaz 1 - HERB
Aldo – Big John
Mendes – HERB (he made repeated critiques of Chad whenever he got Conor down about how Chad had to “watch fingers”)
Siver – HERB
Dustin 1 – HERB
CONOR VERDICT: 100% of all fights in the past 6 years have been Herb Dean. 73% of all fights in the last decade (8 out of 11). 100% of all controversial fights (involving reffing) have included Dean.

JON:
Gane - Goddard
Reyes – Mirg (don't worry, Herb wasn't there but the judges were)
Santos – HERB (don’t worry, Herb couldn’t determine the ending but the judges could)
Smith – HERB (if Smith tried to milk the DQ win and pull an Aljo I bet my life savings Herb would have overruled it)
***Around this time Jones states that he doesn’t want Beltran or Big John to ref his fights any longer***:

Jon Jones on issues with officials: 'It won’t matter who's the referee' at UFC 247

Jon Jones defends his UFC light heavyweight title against Dominick Reyes on Saturday, Feb. 8.

www.pressconnects.com

““I have not (made any requests), but I’ve had some (expletive) situations happen in there,” Jones said. “I felt like I’ve had guys that were very obviously not on my side in that ring”” He never gets either ref ever again. To compensate him, his next 2 fights he gets the pre-151 treatment and gets… you guessed it… Dean.
Gus 2 - Beltran
DC 2 – Big John
***UFC 200 falls apart due to Jon testing positive for steroids / goes back in the doghouse and notice who isn't his ref any longer...***
OSP – HERB (Originally scheduled to be Jon vs DC 2 / DC petitioned to have Herb removed as ref: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/u...but-herb-dean-will-referee-ufc-197-main-event)
DC 1 – HERB
***Jon is promoted as legend in lead-up to DC fight / he comes out of the UFC doghouse***
Glover – Mirg
Alex 1 – Big John
Sonnen – short guy whose name I don’t know
Belfort – Big John
***Jon refuses to fight at UFC 151 vs Hendo / Dana publicly blames him for the event collapsing / Herb then mysteriously stops reffing Jones fights***
Rashad – HERB
Machida – Big John
Rampage - Rosenthal
Shogun - HERB
Bader – HERB
Vlad – HERB
Vera – HERB
JON VERDICT: Jon got Herb to ref 69% of his fights (9 out of 13) while he was in the UFC's good graces. He had Herb ref 0% of his fights (0 out of 6) while he was in the UFC doghouse. PS... I bet my life savings that Herb refs the Jon vs Stipe fight.

SEAN:
Merab – HERB (attempt to skew the fight if only Sean did anything better than get dominated 50-45. But the groundwork was laid… the 48-47 score card waiting for Sean to win a single round in order to give him the SD, the attempt by Herb to prep the point deduction after nonsensically saying “let’s work” 80 times while Merab was dominating)
Chito 2 – short guy (forget his name)
Aljo – HERB (early stoppage)
Yan – Herzog (don’t worry, Herb wasn’t there but the judges were)
Munhoz – Herzog
Paiva – Herzog
Moutinho – HERB / one of the most obvious examples of a doctored stoppage in MMA history. Moutinho losing but not hurt in the slightest. With mere seconds to go in the fight Herb inexplicably ends the fight despite Moutinho not being hurt, dropped, wobbled… NOTHING. Showed that literally all Sean needs is the right ref and to land any punch for a stoppage victory. Clear example of Herb "fight fixer" Dean changing the actual result (UD) to a KO for marketing purposes.
Almeida – some guy I don’t know
Chito 1 – HERB (couldn't save him there of course)
Wineland – HERB
SEAN VERDICT: 50% of all Sean fights since he became a star have been with Herb Dean. 100% of all controversial officiating (not counting judging) occurred with Dean.

There were 43 referees used by the UFC last year. 9 of them used frequently: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/lists/ufc-referees-oversaw-most-fights-2023
Of those 43 referees, a single referee absolutely, utterly dominated the reffing for three superstars. That lone referee was responsible for nearly 100% of the controversies benefiting those superstars. There was never a single controversy that benefited the challenger to that marketing star.

I feel like there is a pattern here but I can't see it.

Hey man, super cool thread. And I mean that.

Interesting findings, and yeah, it's nice to have compiled data on something that has indeed, even on the vague level, been a bit suspicious. There's tons of "plausible deniability" built in there (intentionally, of course). But you've painted a good picture. Even with liberal stretching of counter-points, I can't see any reason not to view this info with at least a bit of skepticism (towards the UFC).

Above all, though,

couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards

You completely had my support after that line. Fucking hell LOL!

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

My guess is he is just a good company man. Herb "best in the business" Dean may get more than his advertised income of 6K (lol). The funny part is how blatant it is. It is funny in a cartoonish/amateurish sort of way because it is done so brazenly.

Read the OP. There aren't slim pickings. They had 43 refs last year. They used 9 heavily. Judging by that Herb should be reffing less than 10% of the time when it comes to superstars. Instead it is close to 100%.

And yeah you're probably right. No way at all a multi-billion dollar company could ever dream of influencing commissions in the sport they have a monopoly over. What's next... MMA media being compromised? I couldn't think of that ever happening.

As I mention about plausible deniability in my post before this, Herb's being a "big name" gives them ample excuse to (over)use him for all the big (read: fiscally lucrative if the cookie crumbles the right way) fights. There are technically safeguards to prevent blatant ref picking, but hell if I know how or if they're enforced, or if the enforcers aren't happy to oblige or simply don't care, because "Herb's a big name, so he should get whatever big fights".

 

[Dionysian]

man if you did that level of noticing with other areas in life you would be arrested in western Europe

very good work thanks for the statistics

You're welcome brother

Yes, like all "good" conspiracy theories, it doesn't make any kind of concrete claim of any kind.

Herb Dean is corrupt. He is EXTREMELY DISPROPORTIONATELY assigned fights of marketing stars specifically because he has shown over and over that he pushes the results in the UFC's favor. I thought the claim was pretty damn concrete from the OP but I guess I had to spell it out?

 

[Poirierfan]

You're welcome brother

Herb Dean is corrupt. He is EXTREMELY DISPROPORTIONATELY assigned fights of marketing stars specifically because he has shown over and over that he pushes the results in the UFC's favor. I thought the claim was pretty damn concrete from the OP but I guess I had to spell it out?

There's always one guy, man, the writing can be literally on the wall and it won't make a fuck.

 

[Dionysian]

Hey man, super cool thread. And I mean that.

Interesting findings, and yeah, it's nice to have compiled data on something that has indeed, even on the vague level, been a bit suspicious. There's tons of "plausible deniability" built in there (intentionally, of course). But you've painted a good picture. Even with liberal stretching of counter-points, I can't see any reason not to view this info with at least a bit of skepticism (towards the UFC).

Above all, though,

couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards

You completely had my support after that line. Fucking hell LOL!

Thanks man. And lol, yes, that ending of Conor screaming and Herb caressing him telling him everything will be alright was probably one of the most satisfying endings in fight history.

As I mention about plausible deniability in my post before this, Herb's being a "big name" gives them ample excuse to (over)use him for all the big (read: fiscally lucrative if the cookie crumbles the right way) fights. There are technically safeguards to prevent blatant ref picking, but hell if I know how or if they're enforced, or if the enforcers aren't happy to oblige or simply don't care, because "Herb's a big name, so he should get whatever big fights".

Even if there was such a technical rule by an independent third party, I'd happily bet my paycheck it has literally never been enforced in the history of the UFC.

There's always one guy, man. Lol

Well it IS Sherdog after all haha

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I believe it.

 

[Nobru]

and this is just a small fraction of what goes on

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Herb literally called out O'Malley for cheating during the fight last night.

 

[Dionysian]

Herb literally called out O'Malley for cheating during the fight last night.

I compare that to a guy loudly/publicly exclaiming at a party he isn't fond of a girl while her boyfriend is watching to then plow her behind her boyfriend's back at that same party. So yeah Herb loudly and publicly did a symbolic nothing at the onset (betting they learned SOMETHING from how his blatant corruption at 229 was perceived at least)... but then directly contradicted that notion for the next 24 minutes, up to and including trying to sway the outcome of the fight in form of clearly setting the stage for premature standups for someone winning, verbally chastising someone for winning more than 20 times, and possibly contemplating point reductions to prevent them from winning, etc. That is the equivalent to then having video tape of the guy at the party fucking the girl... it isn't a mystery any longer despite the fact he one time said an hour earlier he wasn't fond of her while her boyfriend watched.

and this just a small fraction of what goes on

Yup. Just one Sherdogger using google search to check reffing for three fighters. And literally not one refutation in the thread / literally the only counter has been cheap-ass conspiracy-themed gif one-liners rather than refuting a single thing that was covered in the OP.

So yeah, if this corruption is what is clearly seen using a google search, imagine how much slimy shit there is beneath the surface: in terms of steroid regimes, contract fuckery, promotional scams, judging, reffing, spineless and subservient MMA media, etc.

 

[don't ask]

Also, in before PR accounts attack me personally rather than try to refute any of the facts I posted ITT.

I love each and every one of your threads, man.

 

[Koala]

short guy whose name I don’t know? You are disrespecting Booze and Cigarettes Keith Peterson

 

[Dionysian]

I love each and every one of your threads, man.

Thanks a ton man

short guy whose name I don’t know? You are disrespecting Booze and Cigarettes Keith Peterson
View attachment 1062981

lol my bad / sorry Keith

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

And lol, yes, that ending of Conor screaming and Herb caressing him telling him everything will be alright was probably one of the most satisfying endings in fight history.

100% this. DP vs Conman II and III are absolutely two of my favorite "poetic justice" fight outcomes in history. I was a-hootin', a-hollerin', fist-pumping, and laughing not at the (t)ko(s), but at Conman's (self)public-humiliation with his words and actions after those fights while DP strutted around in victory.

p.s. I particularly cherished Conman's extra-fake exaggerated Irish accent after he broke his leg and was swearing revenge and rambling about DMing spouses.

 

[Holyherb420]

Refute my “facts” proceeds to give his opinions on early stoppages and who won what fight.

 

[Hdfi]

I looked at three fighters widely viewed by the UFC to be up and coming marketing stars who then became champions (Conor + Jon + Sean) then I looked at what refs those people got in their fights. The timeline goes from their most recent fight back to when they were first viewed as an emerging star. Notes in green mark specific events that may have changed the UFC's outlook towards that fighter. I can't figure out if there's a pattern but maybe you can help me by looking at the timelines:

CONOR:
Dustin 3 – HERB (couldn’t save him, but he did coddle Conor on the ground whispering to him “it’ll all be ok” like he was married to him afterwards)
Dustin 2 – HERB (Dustin complained post-fight about Herb’s bias allowing Conor to cheat in-cage)
Cerrone – HERB (arguably the one time Herb wasn’t even needed, but he was there anyway)
Khabib – HERB (arguably most documented instance of fight doctoring via a ref allowing cheating... possibly in all of MMA history)
Eddie – Big John
Diaz 2 – Big John
Diaz 1 - HERB
Aldo – Big John
Mendes – HERB (he made repeated critiques of Chad whenever he got Conor down about how Chad had to “watch fingers”)
Siver – HERB
Dustin 1 – HERB
CONOR VERDICT: 100% of all fights in the past 6 years have been Herb Dean. 73% of all fights in the last decade (8 out of 11). 100% of all controversial fights (involving reffing) have included Dean.

JON:
Gane - Goddard
Reyes – Mirg (don't worry, Herb wasn't there but the judges were)
Santos – HERB (don’t worry, Herb couldn’t determine the ending but the judges could)
Smith – HERB (if Smith tried to milk the DQ win and pull an Aljo I bet my life savings Herb would have overruled it)
***Around this time Jones states that he doesn’t want Beltran or Big John to ref his fights any longer***:

Jon Jones on issues with officials: 'It won’t matter who's the referee' at UFC 247

Jon Jones defends his UFC light heavyweight title against Dominick Reyes on Saturday, Feb. 8.

www.pressconnects.com

““I have not (made any requests), but I’ve had some (expletive) situations happen in there,” Jones said. “I felt like I’ve had guys that were very obviously not on my side in that ring”” He never gets either ref ever again. To compensate him, his next 2 fights he gets the pre-151 treatment and gets… you guessed it… Dean.
Gus 2 - Beltran
DC 2 – Big John
***UFC 200 falls apart due to Jon testing positive for steroids / goes back in the doghouse and notice who isn't his ref any longer...***
OSP – HERB (Originally scheduled to be Jon vs DC 2 / DC petitioned to have Herb removed as ref: https://www.foxsports.com/stories/u...but-herb-dean-will-referee-ufc-197-main-event)
DC 1 – HERB
***Jon is promoted as legend in lead-up to DC fight / he comes out of the UFC doghouse***
Glover – Mirg
Alex 1 – Big John
Sonnen – short guy whose name I don’t know
Belfort – Big John
***Jon refuses to fight at UFC 151 vs Hendo / Dana publicly blames him for the event collapsing / Herb then mysteriously stops reffing Jones fights***
Rashad – HERB
Machida – Big John
Rampage - Rosenthal
Shogun - HERB
Bader – HERB
Vlad – HERB
Vera – HERB
JON VERDICT: Jon got Herb to ref 69% of his fights (9 out of 13) while he was in the UFC's good graces. He had Herb ref 0% of his fights (0 out of 6) while he was in the UFC doghouse. PS... I bet my life savings that Herb refs the Jon vs Stipe fight.

SEAN:
Merab – HERB (attempt to skew the fight if only Sean did anything better than get dominated 50-45. But the groundwork was laid… the 48-47 score card waiting for Sean to win a single round in order to give him the SD, the attempt by Herb to prep the point deduction after nonsensically saying “let’s work” 80 times while Merab was dominating)
Chito 2 – short guy (forget his name)
Aljo – HERB (early stoppage)
Yan – Herzog (don’t worry, Herb wasn’t there but the judges were)
Munhoz – Herzog
Paiva – Herzog
Moutinho – HERB / one of the most obvious examples of a doctored stoppage in MMA history. Moutinho losing but not hurt in the slightest. With mere seconds to go in the fight Herb inexplicably ends the fight despite Moutinho not being hurt, dropped, wobbled… NOTHING. Showed that literally all Sean needs is the right ref and to land any punch for a stoppage victory. Clear example of Herb "fight fixer" Dean changing the actual result (UD) to a KO for marketing purposes.
Almeida – some guy I don’t know
Chito 1 – HERB (couldn't save him there of course)
Wineland – HERB
SEAN VERDICT: 50% of all Sean fights since he became a star have been with Herb Dean. 100% of all controversial officiating (not counting judging) occurred with Dean.

There were 43 referees used by the UFC last year. 9 of them used frequently: https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/lists/ufc-referees-oversaw-most-fights-2023
Of those 43 referees, a single referee absolutely, utterly dominated the reffing for three superstars. That lone referee was responsible for nearly 100% of the controversies benefiting those superstars. There was never a single controversy that benefited the challenger to that marketing star.

I feel like there is a pattern here but I can't see it.

Okay, you got my attention, this is an interesting thread, but how do you know it's not just a coincidence because Herb Dean is very active in main events, especially title fights?

For example, we agree that Francis Ngannou was not protected, right? Yet Herb was the referee of all his title fights (100%) and a disproportionate number of his ufc fights in general.


NGANNOU:
Gane - HERB (title fight)
Stipe 2- HERB (title fight)
Jairzinho - Dan
Junior dos Santos - HERB
Cain - Herzog
Curtis - Goddard
Lewis - HERB
Stipe - HERB (title fight)

 

[jeskola]

 

[nonoob]

let me go get my tinfoil hat.​

Having one permanently attached is a must.

 

[Dionysian]

Refute my “facts” proceeds to give his opinions on early stoppages and who won what fight.

I didn't ask you to refute my opinions genius, I asked you to discuss the facts: the undeniably absurd percentage of times that Herb was officiating marketing-favorite fighters as they were being pushed by the UFC. Instead of discussing that (because then you'd have no way to dismiss me) you tossed out a one-liner that tried to change the topic. Color me surprised.

Okay, you got my attention, this is an interesting thread, but how do you know it's not just a coincidence because Herb Dean is very active in main events, especially title fights?

For example, we agree that Francis Ngannou was not a protected, right? Yet Herb was the referee of all his title fights (100%) and a disproportionate number of his ufc fights in general.


NGANNOU:
Gane - HERB (title fight)
Stipe 2- HERB (title fight)
Jairzinho - Dan
Junior dos Santos - HERB
Cain - Herzog
Curtis - Goddard
Lewis - HERB
Stipe - HERB (title fight)

Thanks for pulling the Francis history for me. Hard disagreement though on Mr. Ford Escort himself NOT being a marketing favorite however (will address that in a second).

Check out the last part of the OP: so it appears that despite having 43 refs in 2023 they really rotated the hell out of 9 in particular (one being Herb). That highlights your point that seeing Herb a healthy amount shouldn't be a shocker, correct. However, it doesn't address the HUUUUGE discrepancy between his frequency lording over consequential fights/decisions in particular (as in: the kind the UFC might especially have an interest in determining the outcome of) relative to the other 8 guys UFC commonly used. I would love to see stats of how many total fights Herb reffed in UFC history divided by the total UFC fights in history. Whatever that percentage is, I can guarantee you that it is nowhere in the fucking universe of the numbers I stated in the OP (literally one guy covering somewhere between 50 to 100 percent of fights depending on the fighter and time period).

Back to your post though, remember that Francis was a heavy marketing favorite in the exact timeframe you posted. He was promoted as the future champ prior to the first Stipe fight. Remember his coronation and then Dana acting like a bitch when Stipe won the first time? Stipe certainly did, to the point that he refused to let Dana put the belt around him. That through Stipe 2 they maintained that promotion until Francis winning was portrayed as the future overtaking the past and UFC HW finally being set straight. The same old PR suspects on here then promoted Francis as the GOAT HW, like they did every single HW champ since 2009 in an effort to make newer fans dismiss Fedor. Of course the same posters then tossed Francis into the trash when he left and they got their new marching orders from corporate.

Interesting thing about Francis is he's a particularly hard guy to involve in fixed fights: either he flatlined his opponent right away or fizzled out to the point where he lost a decision where he looked bad. Despite that difficulty, to your point, Herb "fight fixer" Dean reffed 63% (5 out of 8) of Ngannou's fights during the time when the UFC was promoting Francis the most.