Can we appreciate the fact a guy who never wrestled before mma scored take downs on both bones & DC?

That's my point. Stick to the sport. Bisping is wrong. The learning curve for legal kicks is way slower than wrestling
 
Swepingright said:
That's my point. Stick to the sport. Bisping is wrong. The learning curve for legal kicks is way slower than wrestling
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Idk about that… never heard any coach or fighter say that, actually the opposite.
And from a personal experience after training a lot of muay thai and Bjj, i was landing kicks on people in the gym and submitted people with a bunch if the stuff i learned.
Wrestling takedowns are a lot harder to pull in sparring.

Maybe its just you, or maybe sumo is very takedown heavy, or maybe the guy u tossed was 3 times smaller.
 
BalloonFoot said:
Another thing that gets vastly ignored is that 4th round vs Jon in the first fight with Gus. Gus was winning the standup again in the 4th, and I actually think he had Jon pretty hurt, the most out of anyone so far, with a left hook I believe. But when Jon landed that elbow on Gus, everyone acts like Gus was so rocked and that elbow is why Gus lost the fight. But was Gus that rocked? Gus never fell down, never lost his balance or got the stinky leg. Also the biggest point I'm getting to, that relates to this thread, is that after that big elbow from Jon, Jon tried to take Gus down, but was denied. If Gus was that rocked, Jon should have easily been able to take Gus down. But Jon couldn't. I also think Gus was robbed of the title, all because of that over hyped elbow.
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Gus was slightly ahead in the fourth round up until that elbow that won Jones the round. It was clear that it hurt Gus and it was by far the most significant strike of that round. I wouldn’t debate on how rocked Gus was as it’s a moot point in my opinion - he was slightly ahead, but Jones ended up doing a bit more damage. Great fight and performance by Gus and I’ve always been rooting for him but unfortunately I don’t see how you can give him the fourth round after Jones stole it from him with that elbow.
 
daniel san said:
Gus was slightly ahead in the fourth round up until that elbow that won Jones the round. It was clear that it hurt Gus and it was by far the most significant strike of that round. I wouldn’t debate on how rocked Gus was as it’s a moot point in my opinion - he was slightly ahead, but Jones ended up doing a bit more damage. Great fight and performance by Gus and I’ve always been rooting for him but unfortunately I don’t see how you can give him the fourth round after Jones stole it from him with that elbow.
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If the elbow hurt Gus that bad, why couldn't Jon take him down? Jon tried hard as fuck and never got it. Gus was never wobbled or fell down. Yes it was a strong strike, but I think it got over played on how devastating it was. That happened towards the back end of the round as well. Also worth noting is that Gus landed a hard strike on Jon earlier in the round as well. I think this gets over looked, but Jon was very hurt by it. Probably the hardest strike to land on him in the UFC.
 
KillerIsBack V2 said:
Idk about that… never heard any coach or fighter say that, actually the opposite.
And from a personal experience after training a lot of muay thai and Bjj, i was landing kicks on people in the gym and submitted people with a bunch if the stuff i learned.
Wrestling takedowns are a lot harder to pull in sparring.

Maybe its just you, or maybe sumo is very takedown heavy, or maybe the guy u tossed was 3 times smaller.
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Listen to national champ Chael say it: you either got it or you don't. (more or less)

Nothing at all like kicking. Everybody sucks kicking at first
 
Gus is a beast, skillwise one of the Top 5 LHWs ever.
 
dittohead84 said:
inbetweeners-sex-1024x576.jpg


It was cool that he got them down, but he just did that once on top of them
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How dare you spy on me!
 
In a way

Kind of like the “TD threat” will make a good grappler a great striker


A great striker can also become a good wrestler if they can time them correctly , albeit a harder task than the aforementioned. I mean, if youre fighting a dude that doesnt shoot TDs and loves to strike, you wouldnt spend all camp sprawling TDs getting ready.
 
Takedowns and GNP are pretty natural (no training) as well...

tenor.gif
 
Iroh said:
Yes, I can appreciate it! I'd even give you a like if I had one to give.
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I liked it for you and didn’t care for the thread. But I thought he should get his like because you liked it.
 
BalloonFoot said:
Another thing that gets vastly ignored is that 4th round vs Jon in the first fight with Gus. Gus was winning the standup again in the 4th, and I actually think he had Jon pretty hurt, the most out of anyone so far, with a left hook I believe. But when Jon landed that elbow on Gus, everyone acts like Gus was so rocked and that elbow is why Gus lost the fight. But was Gus that rocked? Gus never fell down, never lost his balance or got the stinky leg. Also the biggest point I'm getting to, that relates to this thread, is that after that big elbow from Jon, Jon tried to take Gus down, but was denied. If Gus was that rocked, Jon should have easily been able to take Gus down. But Jon couldn't. I also think Gus was robbed of the title, all because of that over hyped elbow.
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There is no way anyone could possibly think Gus won the 4th unless they just really hate Jones
 
KillerIsBack V2 said:
Idk about that… never heard any coach or fighter say that, actually the opposite.
And from a personal experience after training a lot of muay thai and Bjj, i was landing kicks on people in the gym and submitted people with a bunch if the stuff i learned.
Wrestling takedowns are a lot harder to pull in sparring.

Maybe its just you, or maybe sumo is very takedown heavy, or maybe the guy u tossed was 3 times smaller.
Click to expand...

just being able to throw a kick doesn't mean you actually know how to kick. look how many professional fighters have broken their legs kicking. how many guys fuck up double leg takedowns? not many right? even Cyril Gane who's corner still calls the double leg "football tackle" or whatever can wrestle a bit.

i agree with him, learning how to kick properly is harder than learning how to wrestle. learning wrestling isn't hard, grappling is a natural human reaction to a fight. just look how many street fights end up with guys grabbing each other and rolling around on the ground. it's actually wrestling, that's the hard part, not because it's hard to learn but because it's hard on the body to DO.

wrestling is more of a sport of repetition, while striking is more of a sport of deception. what i mean by that is, in striking no matter how many times you throw a jab, if you don't understand when to throw it it's basically useless. while wrestling is much more intuitive, you can get takedowns even with shitty timing if you're an absolute ox of a human being.
 
Gsp did it the best it was his main weapon and he didn’t wrestle even in high school
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
just being able to throw a kick doesn't mean you actually know how to kick. look how many professional fighters have broken their legs kicking. how many guys fuck up double leg takedowns? not many right? even Cyril Gane who's corner still calls the double leg "football tackle" or whatever can wrestle a bit.

i agree with him, learning how to kick properly is harder than learning how to wrestle. learning wrestling isn't hard, grappling is a natural human reaction to a fight. just look how many street fights end up with guys grabbing each other and rolling around on the ground. it's actually wrestling, that's the hard part, not because it's hard to learn but because it's hard on the body to DO.

wrestling is more of a sport of repetition, while striking is more of a sport of deception. what i mean by that is, in striking no matter how many times you throw a jab, if you don't understand when to throw it it's basically useless. while wrestling is much more intuitive, you can get takedowns even with shitty timing if you're an absolute ox of a human being.
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I wouldnt Gane as an example.. the man heel hooked a guy in the ufc with less than one year of bjj training. You have any idea how hard it is applying a heel hook in mma is, let alone at that level, shit even in bjj.

i can safely say that in my own experience in several mma gyms, i rarely see anybody land a double leg unless its one of the competing guys.
Shit i can say that for me too, and i have landed every almost every submission i saw on youtube, so this is not collectively a grappling thing.

also, i dont understand ur leg injury point, ur talking about when guy’s low calf kick gets checked? That’s not something they dont know. Its something the other guy did. No different than countering a punch, just a lot more effective.

the repetition part i can say the same thing about a counter punch in a light spar, some people cant time that no matter how much they try.

and about that “being an ox” thing, i’ve trained with guys who hit so hard that even if i block their strikes it hurts. I’m pretty sure Melvin Manhoef would ko all of us with the same punch if he wanted.
 
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