Can we appreciate the fact a guy who never wrestled before mma scored take downs on both bones & DC?

[arcadeperfect]

Maybe... but it's comparatively ineffective. No one has to learn how to kick.

That's because it takes long to learn, it's a long term investment. That's why the known kickers in MMA all have a background in a kicking art from early on in their lives. Kicking only seems less effective because most people suck at it, and a shitty kick has shitty consequences.

 

[arcadeperfect]

(And I liked Ben.)

Well if that's your bar for good kicking then sure, I guess.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Agree. At age 31, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t properly learn to execute a fast single leg. My body just wouldn’t do it. I had great teachers, too.

Comparatively I've never seen anyone start training in their 30s be able to kick dynamically either. They could train for a decade and their speed and execution would never be as good.

 

[Shaddows]

Happens all the time. Superior wrestlers often dont expect the TD.

I think this, but it is a combination of the above with the momentum of the fight.
I've seen this in numerous examples, like a great BJJ fighter (A) getting submitted by a lesser BJJ practitioner (B)... the point missing is that the fighter B rocked rocked fighter A first, and took the opportunity to lock a submission before fighter A could recompose himself.

If I recall, Gus in both instances put them in trouble standing, and while they were in survival mode, he took them down.

 

[Stump]

More people can execute a takedown compared to the kicks I've shown. So many people can't even throw a normal back kick properly which is the most basic of spinning kicks yet you're arguing that kicking is an easy skill set because you kicked someone in the leg with a shitty front kick. There's a reason why the best kickers all started when they were young, it's a unique skill that isn't easily acquired in adulthood. At best you'll be able to throw a low kick if you start kicking in your adult years.

You aren't making any sense. Comparing a spinning kick to a takedown is absurd.

Its great you paid a McDojo for your tkd black belt, but don't hype up kicking like this, it comes across as pretty silly

 

[Post 2 Decision]

It was cool that he got them down, but he just did that once on top of them

Great show

 

[arcadeperfect]

You aren't making any sense. Comparing a spinning kick to a takedown is absurd.

Its great you paid a McDojo for your tkd black belt, but don't hype up kicking like this, it comes across as pretty silly

Why is it absurd?

 

[RiotWyatt]

GSP, a karate black belt, has scored TDs on:

Johny Hendricks - Div 1
Josh Koscheck - Div 1
Jon Fitch - Div 1
Matt Hughes - Div 1
Frank Trigg - Div 1
Jake Shields - Div 2

Jay Heiron - Div 1 - GSP didn't take him down but did stuff his TDs and quickly destroyed him before we could see if GSP could take him down.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

man... fuck all you guys taking away this shit from gus... pretending like its pretty normal feat to take down dc and bones...

That's because it takes long to learn, it's a long term investment. That's why the known kickers in MMA all have a background in a kicking art from early on in their lives. Kicking only seems less effective because most people suck at it, and a shitty kick has shitty consequences.

what is your personal experience? I've landed almost every kick I learned in a class at some point. TDs are hard as fuck to work.
how many people you see land TDs in an mma fight compared to kicks? there's a reason a TD is worth more in mma scoring.
How many TDs do you see in actual wrestling matches by average in any level? not that much.
how many kicks do you see landed in a kickboxing match by average in any level? a lot.
Same happens in mma.

 

[arcadeperfect]

man... fuck all you guys taking away this shit from gus... pretending like its pretty normal feat to take down dc and bones...


what is your personal experience? I've landed almost every kick I learned in a class at some point. TDs are hard as fuck to work.
how many people you see land TDs in an mma fight compared to kicks? there's a reason a TD is worth more in mma scoring.
How many TDs do you see in actual wrestling matches by average in any level? not that much.
how many kicks do you see landed in a kickboxing match by average in any level? a lot.
Same happens in mma.

If your argument is a basic low kick which includes half assed ones then your argument holds up. Look at some of the good kickers in MMA like: Barboza, Yair, Giga, Wonderboy, Uriah Hall, Cro Cop, and Machida. These fighters are generally classified as unique/athletic and they've all been doing kicking arts from a very young age. There's a reason why most adults can't learn kicks beyond a basic low kick, it's difficult and it requires a specific type of conditioning for flexibility and dexterity. A takedown is only worth more in MMA if the fighter can keep his position like Khabib. A takedown that leads to no dominant position for any significant amount of time doesn't score much at all.

 

[ThePunisher]

Can't believe he retired.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

If your argument is a basic low kick which includes half assed ones then your argument holds up. Look at some of the good kickers in MMA like: Barboza, Yair, Giga, Wonderboy, Uriah Hall, Cro Cop, and Machida. These fighters are generally classified as unique/athletic and they've all been doing kicking arts from a very young age. There's a reason why most adults can't learn kicks beyond a basic low kick, it's difficult and it requires a specific type of conditioning for flexibility and dexterity. A takedown is only worth more in MMA if the fighter can keep his position like Khabib. A takedown that leads to no dominant position for any significant amount of time doesn't score much at all.

That last part you mentioned is actually fairly new in the scoring system. It does not change the fact that there are a lot less take downs in mma, even from guys with a wrestling base.
Also, no idea why you keep mentioning the kicking art base, whatever the fuck that means.
Luke Rockhold has an excellent question mark kick that he has landed on many people, and he was only doing bjj before transitioning to mma. in fact he won the world championships in purple and blue.

also, the fuck is this dumb shit about "basic low kick"... I've landed inside low kicks, switch teeps, and hook kicks in practice and I'm not competitive at all... I'd love to see an an average adult starting wrestling try to do the moves in this video:
these are all little kids in the video... and personally, I wouldn't be able to land any of this shit in my gym... maybe if somebody sucked really really badly... like the shit the kid at 0:48 with out getting sprawling on him... is like a cheat code to my eyes... bruh anybody that tried to double leg'ed me i'd just sprawl on their backs.


Idk dude, maybe it is cause you grew up in an environment where wrestling is normal in schools, like Americans I assume?

 

[arcadeperfect]

That last part you mentioned is actually fairly new in the scoring system. It does not change the fact that there are a lot less take downs in mma, even from guys with a wrestling base.
Also, no idea why you keep mentioning the kicking art base, whatever the fuck that means.
Luke Rockhold has an excellent question mark kick that he has landed on many people, and he was only doing bjj before transitioning to mma. in fact he won the world championships in purple and blue.

also, the fuck is this dumb shit about "basic low kick"... I've landed inside low kicks, switch teeps, and hook kicks in practice and I'm not competitive at all... I'd love to see an an average adult starting wrestling try to do the moves in this video:
these are all little kids in the video... and personally, I wouldn't be able to land any of this shit in my gym... maybe if somebody sucked really really badly... like the shit the kid at 0:48 with out getting sprawling on him... is like a cheat code to my eyes... bruh anybody that tried to double leg'ed me i'd just sprawl on their backs.


Idk dude, maybe it is cause you grew up in an environment where wrestling is normal in schools, like Americans I assume?

I can use GSP in my example since he was a kyokushin stylist that became one of the best takedown artists in MMA history. Your video is badass but those guys are far beyond the overwhelming majority of MMA fighters and are doing far more than regular takedowns. The equivalent of your video would be showing boxers with insane head movement and hand speed or Olympic Taekwondo stylists that throw matrix type kicks. Idk how old you are but if you're able to land those types of kicks you listed then that's fantastic and I'm not being patronizing. I've seen most adults try their hand at striking sports and they always end up looking goofy when they try to kick.

 

[dreden1982]

D1 Gus is like Healthy Shogun and Sea Level Cain... Flash in the pan.

D1 Gus

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

I can use GSP in my example since he was a kyokushin stylist that became one of the best takedown artists in MMA history. Your video is badass but those guys are far beyond the overwhelming majority of MMA fighters and are doing far more than regular takedowns. The equivalent of your video would be showing boxers with insane head movement and hand speed or Olympic Taekwondo stylists that throw matrix type kicks. Idk how old you are but if you're able to land those types of kicks you listed then that's fantastic and I'm not being patronizing. I've seen most adults try their hand at striking sports and they always end up looking goofy when they try to kick.

far beyond? these are teenagers so idk about that, huge number of mma fighters come from wrestling base and have competed higher level than the tournament in the video(it's the junior pans).

Thanks for the compliment though about my striking. appreciate it.

GSP as an example for anything though is far-fetched. He's probably the most well-rounded fighter ever, and has had huge previlege in terms of coaching and training partners(rolled with almost every adcc champ alive, and every gracie alive, and many D1 wrestlers, and many ATG striking coaches like Freddie Roach, and others, and had hte previlege of working with both zehabi and jack-wink, and a lot of other weird shit i heard him say on podcasts like a time analyst)

 

[mmadeewana]

Another thing that gets vastly ignored is that 4th round vs Jon in the first fight with Gus. Gus was winning the standup again in the 4th, and I actually think he had Jon pretty hurt, the most out of anyone so far, with a left hook I believe. But when Jon landed that elbow on Gus, everyone acts like Gus was so rocked and that elbow is why Gus lost the fight. But was Gus that rocked? Gus never fell down, never lost his balance or got the stinky leg. Also the biggest point I'm getting to, that relates to this thread, is that after that big elbow from Jon, Jon tried to take Gus down, but was denied. If Gus was that rocked, Jon should have easily been able to take Gus down. But Jon couldn't. I also think Gus was robbed of the title, all because of that over hyped elbow.

Gus ran from Jones,whats worst is he was runninh showing his back towards Jones.

 

[Swepingright]

Sure, folks who gripe about how “oh wow it’s mma wrestling doesn’t directly translate”, and other garbage arguments that aim to undermine credit, conveniently leave out the fact that both of those guys were well established, high level MMA fighters when they fought Gus. They knew damned good and well how wrestling for MMA works and they were very good at it. It’s a very solid accomplishment in such a high level fight against two future MMA hall-of-fame fighters

If you watch Jones fights, most people do don't try to take him down, which is strange because he gives openings like in the Gus fight. So you can't say he's hard to take down if people don't have the balls to try

Same mystery why superior wrestlers who never tried a takedown against Khabib. I

 

[ralek4grammy]

Well if that's your bar for good kicking then sure, I guess.

I was being ironic, but now you took all the fun out of it , my friend.

 

[ralek4grammy]

Even kids who didn't wrestle would attempt a tackle if they were getting their ass beat standing.

Kinda... Most fights end on the ground (usually because someone trips...of course, it could be instinctual grappling...it is, sometimes), and then it's rather GNP time then continued grappling.

But then, it's not like I have statistics . Just my casual observation, FWIW.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

Nobody tunes in for Ultimate takedowns they tune in for Ultimate BEATDOWNS!

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