International BREXIT: Leave/Remain Referendum on June 23 Will Change Europe, No Matter the Outcome.

[Madmick]

Is a fool

What about Krugman is foolish? The guy is a maverick economist who pisses on both aisles. Be grateful there are still some of his kind.

 

[theBLADE1]

What about Krugman is foolish? The guy is a maverick economist who pisses on both aisles. Be grateful there are still some of his kind.

I just feel like that dude is hunting for a spot in the Clinton Administration. Many of his criticisms of Sanders policies were baseless and he never backed them up with any real proof.

Basically acting as an unofficial attack dog for Hillary.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Is a fool

He is a democratic shill, especially for hillary but my point is that even a guy from the left that supports open borders has criticized the EU and said Brexit isn't that bad, although he would vote remain.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Is it sad that I knew without watching the video, that he would pull out the trade trope, and argue GDP, as if that has any effect on any of your lives?

The funny part is to hear the folks on the left who laugh at trickle down economics, while trying to sell you trickle down economics in the name of trade, and globalization.

 

[Madmick]

I just feel like that dude is hunting for a spot in the Clinton Administration. Many of his criticisms of Sanders policies were baseless and he never backed them up with any real proof.

Basically acting as an unofficial attack dog for Hillary.

Uh, I'm pretty sure Krugman couched his criticism of Bernie's cockeyed proposals (ex. free college) in the fact that he couldn't pay for them. Why? Bernie projected $5bn annual growth for four consecutive years in order to makes sure the bottom line didn't drop out. Krugman pointed out that no President in history had ever achieved that much growth in a single year, but that only one President in history had even hit $4bn annual growth (adjusted for inflation) for four consecutive years in a Presidency. I'm not sure if I'm even remembering that right. I think Clinton only 3 out of 4 years.

Know what the unadjusted mean economic growth by GDP is for our government over the past 10 years? It's about $1.8bn annually.


Krugman rejected Bernie's economic ideas because Krugman doesn't live in fucking Candyland, man.

 

[theBLADE1]

Uh, I'm pretty sure Krugman couched his criticism of Bernie's cockeyed proposals (ex. free college) in the fact that he couldn't pay for them. Why? Bernie projected $5bn annual growth for four consecutive years in order to makes sure the bottom line didn't drop out. Krugman pointed out that no President in history had ever achieved that much growth in a single year, but that only one President in history had even hit $4bn annual growth (adjusted for inflation) for four consecutive years in a Presidency. I'm not sure if I'm even remembering that right. I think Clinton only 3 out of 4 years.

Know what the unadjusted mean economic growth by GDP is for our government over the past 10 years? It's about $1.8bn annually.


Krugman rejected Bernie's economic ideas because Krugman doesn't live in fucking Candyland, man.

His plans were not from "Candyland" just because Krugman says there were.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-senator-bernie-sanderss-tax-proposals

Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders proposes significant increases in federal income, payroll, business, and estate taxes, and new excise taxes on financial transactions and carbon. New revenues would pay for universal health care, education, family leave, rebuilding the nation’s infrastructure, and more. TPC estimates the tax proposals would raise $15.3 trillion over the next decade. All income groups would pay some additional tax, but most would come from high-income households, particularly those with the very highest income. His proposals would raise taxes on work, saving, and investment, in some cases to rates well beyond recent historical experience in the US.

Over 50 top economist had come out and endorse Sanders. I'm not going to derail this thread any further since all of this is basically for nothing at this point.

 

[VivaRevolution]

What about Krugman is foolish? The guy is a maverick economist who pisses on both aisles. Be grateful there are still some of his kind.

I'll take a swipe at this. He is playing out of the trade, and globalization trickle down playbook.

That what is good for GDP, is good for the people.

This assumption is in fact wrong, and should discredit him for anyone who realizes that GDP is one narrow scope of the economy.

 

[Madmick]

Over 50 top economist had come out and endorse Sanders. I'm not going to derail this thread any further since all of this is basically for nothing at this point.

Oh, bullshit. "Top economists". Top of what? Bernie got dragged through the coals by economists on both sides of the aisle.

 

[Arkain2K]

Brexit Vote in Balance as Polls Differ Over Which Side Leads
June 20, 2016​

Britain’s referendum on European Union membership remained too close to call two days before the vote, with separate polls showing leads for both sides and billionaire investor George Soros warning of a slump in the pound should voters back Brexit.

A YouGov poll of 1,652 voters for the Times newspaper published late on Monday showed “Leave” at 44 percent and 42 percent for “Remain”, while a survey of 800 people by ORB for the Daily Telegraph had “Remain” at 53 percent and “Leave” at 46 percent among those certain to vote.

The pound surged the most since 2008 on Monday as investors bet that the referendum was swinging in favor of “Remain.” Still, Soros, who made $1 billion betting on a devaluation of the pound in 1992, warned that the possibility of the U.K. leaving the EU is still a real risk which could cut currency’s value by a fifth.

“It is reasonable to assume, given the expectations implied by the market pricing at present, that after a Brexit vote the pound would fall by at least 15 percent and possibly more than 20 percent,” Soros wrote in the Guardian newspaper. “I want people to know what the consequences of leaving the EU would be before they cast their votes, rather than after.”

Governments and investors around the world are watching the referendum amid concern that a so-called Brexit would spark turmoil across global markets. The final big set-piece before the vote takes place is scheduled for Tuesday evening, when former London Mayor Boris Johnson and his pro-EU successor, Sadiq Khan, take part in a BBC television debate at London’s Wembley Arena.

In championing the "Remain" campaign, Prime Minister David Cameron and his Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne have focused on the risks to the British economy if Britain quits the bloc.

“Why are people now delaying buying a home or buying a car if they are not fearful of the consequences of a vote to leave?” Osborne said in an LBC radio interview. “Brexit’s OK if you’re very rich, but for the rest of the country who will have to live with the consequences, not just for Friday morning but for decades to come, they have nowhere else to go.”

The campaign to stay went mostly unhampered as lawmakers paused an often-virulent contest on Monday to pay tribute to murdered colleague Jo Cox. Cameron and opposition Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn led tributes to the Labour politician killed on Thursday after Parliament was recalled from a pre-referendum recess. Recalling Cox’s work on behalf of refugees, Cameron quoted her own words: “We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.”

Biggest Gain

The pound surged 2.4 percent against the dollar on Monday for its biggest gain since 2008 and sterling volatility retreated following polls published Sunday showing “Remain” regaining the lead that it had lost in recent weeks. Asian stocks were poised Tuesday for the biggest three-day rally in two months.

Osborne said the government has made no preparations for a Brexit, apart from “contingency plans for dealing with the financial-stability consequences of a vote to leave.” He warned that “it would take years to disengage from the EU, years of economic hardship as a result.” Even a close vote to stay in the bloc would resolve the issue of Britain’s continued membership “for a generation,” the chancellor told LBC.

Richard Branson, the billionaire founder of Virgin Group Ltd., wrote on the company’s website that Britain should remain in the EU.

"Some are looking backwards and inwards for inspiration and hope - when they should be looking forward at a wide world of opportunity," Branson said. "If you vote Leave, you are not kicking the establishment in the balls -- you are shooting yourself in the foot."

Immigration Campaign

U.K. Independence Party Leader Nigel Farage, criticized by his foes for a poster depicting a crowd of refugees entering the EU, defended the “Leave” campaign’s focus on immigration. He told a BBC Radio interview that “the central point of this campaign is that we want to control our country and part of that is controlling our borders.”

“It’s wrong to shut down immigration as a debate,” Leave.EU founder Arron Banks said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “People are worried about it. When we poll people, it’s the number one thing they’re concerned about. Two, three and four are schools, hospitals, services, which are proxies for immigration.”

Lynton Crosby, who masterminded the Tory election win last year, said turnout would be crucial in the outcome of Thursday’s vote. In a commentary on the ORB poll, which showed a narrower lead for Remain of 49 percent to 47 percent before those unlikely to vote were filtered out, he said voters may be motivated to turn out by seeing their opponents in the lead.

Voter Turnout

“The side that is most effective in motivating their voters to turn out on the 23rd will be the side that emerges victorious,” Crosby wrote. “It is clear that polls are now an actor in elections and referendums, not just a metric of public opinion.”

A survey of 1,632 voters by The National Center for Social Research between May 16 and June 12 found a lead for Remain by 53 percent to 47 percent, the organization said in a statement. The team contacted voters online and by phone, in line with recommendations after the failure of pollsters to predict the outcome of last year’s general election.

“Our survey provides valuable insight into how to interpret the divergent results that have been produced by internet and phone polls throughout the referendum campaign,” John Curtice, professor of politics at the University of Strathclyde, said in an email. “However, it is important to remember that the outcome looks so close that any lead should be treated with caution.”

In Brussels, EU leaders said Britain departing the bloc is a real possibility. “I have no doubt that our enemies -- internal and external enemies -- will open a bottle of champagne if the result is negative for us,” EU Council President Donald Tusk said. Whatever the outcome, “we must take a long hard look” at the EU’s future.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-balance-as-polls-differ-over-which-side-lead

 

[Arkain2K]

EU referendum: Campaigns set for live BBC debate at Wembley
21 June 2016

BBC presenters Mishal Husain, David Dimbleby and Emily Maitlis will host the live debate ​

Leading figures in the Leave and Remain campaigns are preparing to go head to head in the biggest live TV debate of the UK's EU referendum.

Boris Johnson, for Leave, and his successor as London Mayor Sadiq Khan, for Remain, are among six panellists taking part in the two-hour BBC debate at Wembley Arena on Tuesday evening.

Each side will make opening and closing statements then take questions from members of the 6,000-strong audience.

The debate is at 20:00 BST on BBC One.

The event, which is the BBC's last live TV debate before the vote on Thursday, will be hosted by BBC presenter David Dimbleby.

The Leave campaign has put forward the same line-up as a previous debate: Boris Johnson, Labour MP Gisela Stewart and the energy minister Andrea Leadsom.

The argument for remaining in the EU will be put by Sadiq Kahn, Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson, and Frances O'Grady, general secretary of the Trades Union Congress.

There will be contributions by campaigners from other political parties, business and journalism on a second, smaller stage.

Among them will be former Sainsbury's chief executive Justin King, who backs remaining in the EU, and founder and chairman of Wetherspoons Tim Martin, who supports Brexit.

The BBC also expects 200 reporters and spokespeople in the so-called "spin room".

EU Referendum: The Great Debate will be broadcast on Tuesday 21 June from 20:00 - 22:00 BST on BBC One and on the BBC iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36582567

 

[voxom]

What an incredible refutation. You've definitely convinced me of precisely how wrong he is.

where did i say whether he was wrong or right? didn't you read what i wrote? i didn't even watch the video.

 

[Kirku]

“Dishonesty on an industrial scale” EU law expert analyses referendum debate

One of the UK’s leading EU law experts criticizes the referendum debate’s “dishonesty on an industrial scale”, as he considers the claims and counter claims from each side.

University of Liverpool Law School’s Professor Michael Dougan has spent his career studying EU law as it relates to the UK; contributing to Parliamentary Select Committees, advising government and now helping media fact check the barrage of assertions emanating from the Remain and Leave camps, in the run up to June 23.

Here, Professor Dougan analyses the substance of each viewpoint and delivers an informed assessment of the UK’s potential future position, both as a member of the EU and in the wake of a vote to leave.

Video:
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/0...ale-eu-law-expert-analyses-referendum-debate/

 

[Kirku]

Elected MEPs have ZERO power. Unelected Commissioners have all the power.

British laws are subservient to EU law.

These are well known facts.

Your ignorance on how the EU works from a legislative point of view is staggering.

From reading your posts, it's pretty clear that you've gladly accepted everything the Leave campaign has said without bothering to critically analyse any of them.

1) MEPs have no power.
2) Voting Leave would give British people 'more power'
3) The EU is undemocratic
4) Immigrants are an economic drain
5) Britain's economy is better off outside the EU

All of these things have been debunked time and time again. The failing of democracy is that an utterly ignorant vote such as yours will count the same as someone else who has actually bothered to objectively analyse the claims by both sides.

 

[Kirku]

Being in the EU is a big fat redistribution of UK wealth to shittier European countries!!!

In 43 years of EU membership, the British GDP per capita has increased by an average of 1.8 per cent annually. That growth far outstrips the cost of membership.

Interestingly enough, the British cost of membership is roughly the same that Norway pays for access to the single market. Even though Norway has to accept the free movement of goods and labour, something that the Leave campaign conveniently fails to mention when the talk about the 'Norwegian model'.

 

[Madmick]

In 43 years of EU membership, the British GDP per capita has increased by an average of 1.8 per cent annually. That growth far outstrips the cost of membership.

Times change, and apparently the Brits are ready to roll the dice that such growth vs. membership isn't an opportunity cost despite being in the green.

 

[Kirku]

Times change, and apparently the Brits are ready to roll the dice that such growth vs. membership isn't an opportunity cost despite being in the green.

Given the precarious nature of the recovery, that's a huge gamble to take. Especially considering the leave campaign's economic plan which seemingly amounts to crossing its fingers.

 

[Madmick]

Given the precarious nature of the recovery, that's a huge gamble to take. Especially considering the leave campaign's economic plan which seemingly amounts to crossing its fingers.

Yet there is never reward without risk.

 

[Goonerview]

The globalists are fond of their protection rackets.

The UK will still be ruled by them with an exit, but it would at least be a symbolic victory and would make their lives a little less easy.

This is how I feel. Even if Brexit somhow wins the referendum, it probably won't change much, the EU will wriggle around and find a way to still control us ... But it will send a message into the heart of the EU, that it can't keep expanding and it can't keep creating deeper ties with its countries.

On the other hand, It could signal the end of the whole system ... One can hope!

A vote for remain gives the EU a mandate to control us forever. Let that sink in.

 

[Goonerview]

Yet there is never reward without risk.

Staying in the EU is a risk, too. It's a big decision no matter how we choose.

 

[Arkain2K]

The debate tomorrow will be the last chance to set the records straight before the voters head to the poll.

I hope the moderators are prepared to call out the bullshit when they sees it.