International BREXIT: Leave/Remain Referendum on June 23 Will Change Europe, No Matter the Outcome.

[Arkain2K]

Thread Index:

• ‘Brexit’ Vote Will Change Europe, No Matter the Outcome (June 21)
  
• Brexit: What does the E.U referendum mean for the U.S? (June 21)
  
• 'Brits don't quit,' British Prime Minister tells voters in late pitch to remain in E.U (June 21)
  
• The final EU referendum debate, fact checked (June 21)
  
• BBC's Brexit Debate: Five Things We Learned (June 21)
• BBC's Brexit Debate - Play By Play (June 21)
  
• EU referendum: Campaigns set for live BBC debate at Wembley (June 20)
• ‘Brexit’ likely to fail, but EU will change (June 20)
• Impact of Brexit on Scots economy debated in Scotland (June 20)
  
• E.U. Countries Warn Britain on ‘Brexit’: You’ll Pay if You Leave Us (June 20)
  
• Brexit Vote Count: What to Watch for as the Night Unfolds (June 19)
• U.K. Hedge Funds Are Loudly Divided on Brexit (June 19)
• First Brexit Poll Since Jo Cox Killing Shows "Remain" Camp Now in Lead (June 18)
• Regardless of ‘Brexit’ Vote, Experts Say E.U. Must Rethink Status Quo (June 18)
  
• What will happen to Britain if there's Brexit? Here are four possible outcomes (June 17)
• Jo Cox's tragic death may halt pro-Brexit momentum, analysts say (June 16)
  
• British Pound Sterling gains as Brexit campaigning suspended (June 16)
  
• U.K. Lawmaker Jo Cox Is Murdered, Silencing Brexit Debate (June 16)
  
• British lawmaker shot dead, EU referendum campaigns suspended (June 16)
  
• The economic shock of a ‘Brexit’ (June 15)
  
• Telegraph Brexit debate: Boris Johnson and Alex Salmond drive each other bananas (June 14)
• E.U Referendum Debate: Boris Johnson & Priti Patel vs. Alex Salmond & Liz Kendall (June 14)
  
• Boris Johnson to face off against Alex Salmond in Telegraph EU debate (June 13)
  
• Biggest Brexit fear is really end of European Union as we know it (June 13)
  
• Anatomy of a 'Brexit': What the aftermath would look like (June 9, 2016)
• Brexit | The Arguments For and Against
  
• European Council president Donald Tusk warns E.U elites' utopian illusions are tearing Europe apart (June 1, 2016)
  
• Both "Brexit" and "Remain" Camps Are Misleading Voters with Bogus Claims (May 27, 2016)
  
• 'Brexit' foes trade barbs on race as debate heats up (May 26, 2016)
  
• President Obama support David Cameron's effort to remains in the E.U. (April 22)
  
• Tory meltdown as Foreign Secretary hurls four-letter abuse at anti-EU rival after trying to hide secret report on PM's deal (Feb 27)
  
• David Cameron says the idea of the UK being a sovereign country outside the EU is an illusion (Feb 21)
  
• Nicola Sturgeon says vote to leave EU will 'almost certainly' trigger a new independence referendum in Scotland (Feb 21)
  
• Secretary of State for Justice Michael Gove wants Britain out of Europe (Feb 20)
  
• Sturgeon: I'd prefer Scotland to be independent member state of EU (Feb 20)
  
• The U.K to reconsider E.U membership (Feb 20)

The U.K to reconsider E.U membership
In/Out referendum to be held June 23, 2016

David Cameron's Cabinet split apart just minutes after he called a historic in-out referendum on membership of the European Union as six of his senior ministers demanded that Britain sever its links with Brussels.

In an extraordinary 24 hours in British politics, the Prime Minister announced a June 23 referendum but was then faced with the prospect of one fifth of Government ministers opposing his bid to keep Britain in the EU.

Mr Cameron yesterday made an emotional plea on the steps of Downing Street for voters to reject the “leap in the dark” of a British exit from the EU, saying that remaining a member of the bloc is essential for “economic and national security”.

Britain is “safer, stronger and better off” in a reformed EU, he insisted.

However, moments after his address to the nation he faced a heavily coordinated show of defiance from his own ministers led by Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary, who is also one of Mr Cameron’s closest allies.

Mr Gove travelled to the headquarters of the “Vote Leave” campaign alongside Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, John Whittingdale, Theresa Villiers and Priti Patel. The ministers were photographed with a sign calling for Britain to “take back control”.

He then released a 1,500-word statement in which he spoke of his “pain” at opposing Mr Cameron but said that the EU is creating “economic misery” and is “built to keep power and control with the elites rather than the people”.

He appeared to echo Mr Cameron’s “safer, stronger and better off” phrase but instead used the words “freer, fairer and better” to describe why Britain should leave the EU. It will intensify speculation that Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, who is yet to declare his position, could join the campaign to leave the EU.

Writing in today’s Sunday Telegraph, Ms Villiers, the Northern Ireland Secretary, said “it is time to take back control” and that as long as Britain is beholden to European courts “we cannot say we run our own country”. The so-called “gang of six” are now set to be joined by at least 12 junior ministers and more than 100 Conservative MPs.

Mr Cameron will today continue making the case for Britain to stay in the EU and has promised to introduce a British Bill of Rights designed to ensure that UK sovereignty is guaranteed by “making the Supreme Court supreme”.

He will attempt to head off his Eurosceptic critics by publicly challenging the “Leave” campaign to set out exactly what Britain would look like outside the EU, senior sources said.

The swift, unprecedented split came within minutes of Mr Cameron convening the first Saturday Cabinet meeting since the Falklands conflict. He began with a passionate 20-minute address setting out the deal he secured on Friday night in Brussels after 30 hours of intense negotiations. He told ministers his deal gave Britain “special status” in the EU and that he would campaign “heart and soul” to remain in the bloc.

He hailed a four-year “emergency brake” of migrants’ access to full rates of benefits in the UK that could remain in place for seven years. Mr Cameron also assured his Cabinet that he had secured an opt-out for Britain from future European treaties to “make clear that the references to ever-closer union do not apply to Britain”.



He concluded by making a plea for a “sensible, orderly, well-mannered debate” in the run-up to the EU referendum before asking all ministers present to declare their position.

After pro-EU speeches from George Osborne, the Chancellor; Theresa May, the Home Secretary and Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, Mr Gove became the first minister to make the case for a “Brexit”.

The Justice Secretary gave a stark warning that the British Parliament will never be sovereign if the UK remains in the EU. In his statement, released a short while later, Mr Gove said: “I believe our country would be freer, fairer and better off outside the EU. And if, at this moment of decision, I didn’t say what I believe I would not be true to my convictions or my country.

“By leaving the EU we can take control. Indeed, we can show the rest of Europe the way to flourish.”

Yesterday afternoon, Mr Grayling, the Leader of the House, said: “We cannot control our borders, limit the number of people who come here, do trade deals.

“I do not believe we can take decisions in the national interest when we are part of the European Union. If we are outside the European Union we can take better decisions – things that will benefit this country in a way that right now we simply cannot.”

Downing Street last night declared itself “delighted” that Eurosceptics including Mrs May and Sajid Javid – both previously thought of as contenders to lead the out campaign – backed the Prime Minister’s bid to stay in the EU.

However, two Cabinet sources said Mr Javid told the Cabinet meeting that despite backing staying in, he believed Britain could be “more prosperous” outside the EU but that there would be a “short term” cost.

After the conclusion of the Cabinet meeting, Mr Cameron gave a speech outside No 10 in which he described the vote as “the biggest decision of our lifetime”. He said that leaving would threaten Britain’s “economic and national security”.

He said: “Those who want to leave Europe cannot tell you if British businesses would be able to access Europe’s free trade single market, or if working people’s jobs are safe, or how much prices would rise. All they’re offering is a risk at a time of uncertainty – a leap in the dark,” he said.

In an apparent dismissal of the ministers campaigning for exit, Mr Osborne said that Mr Gove would have made his decision “regardless” of the deal reached by Mr Cameron.

Mr Cameron said those campaigning to leave the EU would have to accept freedom of movement in order to achieve a free trade deal.

Speaking to the Sunday Times, he said: “So far, the EU has never given full access to the single market without insisting on a contribution to the budget and free movement.”

The Prime Minister challenged rebels to explain what “out” would mean for Britain.

But Employment Minister Ms Patel, who is campaigning to leave, criticised the terms of Mr Cameron’s deal.

“We should be left in no doubt that by staying in the EU, nothing will change as no significant powers or competences have been returned to Britain,” she wrote in the Mail on Sunday.

Ms Patel condemned the EU’s “spin, propaganda, and abuses of taxpayers’ money” and called for a return of sovereignty to Britain.

Read the rest of the story and follow the latest developments on Brexit at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-leave-brexit-EU-referendum-june-23-live.html

 

[Arkain2K]

Sturgeon: I'd prefer Scotland to be independent member state of EU

Nicola Sturgeon, leader of the SNP, has said that she would prefer Scotland to be an independent member state of the EU.

Her comments could become particularly important if Scotland votes to remain but England chooses to head for Brexit in the June 23 referendum.

"We will make a strong, positive case for the many benefits EU membership brings in terms of jobs, investment, social and employment protections and collective security," she said. "The EU is a coming together of independent states that choose to pool some of their sovereignty to better tackle those issues that don't respect national boundaries – like climate change, energy security and the refugee crisis."

 

[Abezal]

Hope they vote no and bail, just to fuck up the socialist republic of soviet i mean Euro states.

 

[Gervinho]

I believe it when i see it. There is no way they will actually have a vote as they now people will say no

 

[Arkain2K]

Secretary of State for Justice Michael Gove releases incredible statement setting out why he wants Britain out of Europe in 'most difficult political decision of my life'

David Cameron with his friend Michael Gove​

"For weeks now I have been wrestling with the most difficult decision of my political life. But taking difficult decisions is what politicians are paid to do. No-one is forced to stand for Parliament, no-one is compelled to become a minister. If you take on those roles, which are great privileges, you also take on big responsibilities.

"I was encouraged to stand for Parliament by David Cameron and he has given me the opportunity to serve in what I believe is a great, reforming Government. I think he is an outstanding Prime Minister. There is, as far as I can see, only one significant issue on which we have differed.

"And that is the future of the UK in the European Union.

"It pains me to have to disagree with the Prime Minister on any issue. My instinct is to support him through good times and bad.

"But I cannot duck the choice which the Prime Minister has given every one of us. In a few months time we will all have the opportunity to decide whether Britain should stay in the European Union or leave. I believe our country would be freer, fairer and better off outside the EU. And if, at this moment of decision, I didn’t say what I believe I would not be true to my convictions or my country.

"I don’t want to take anything away from the Prime Minister’s dedicated efforts to get a better deal for Britain. He has negotiated with courage and tenacity. But I think Britain would be stronger outside the EU.

"My starting point is simple. I believe that the decisions which govern all our lives, the laws we must all obey and the taxes we must all pay should be decided by people we choose and who we can throw out if we want change. If power is to be used wisely, if we are to avoid corruption and complacency in high office, then the public must have the right to change laws and Governments at election time.

"But our membership of the European Union prevents us being able to change huge swathes of law and stops us being able to choose who makes critical decisions which affect all our lives. Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country. I believe that needs to change. And I believe that both the lessons of our past and the shape of the future make the case for change compelling.

"The ability to choose who governs us, and the freedom to change laws we do not like, were secured for us in the past by radicals and liberals who took power from unaccountable elites and placed it in the hands of the people. As a result of their efforts we developed, and exported to nations like the US, India, Canada and Australia a system of democratic self-government which has brought prosperity and peace to millions.

"Our democracy stood the test of time. We showed the world what a free people could achieve if they were allowed to govern themselves.

"In Britain we established trial by jury in the modern world, we set up the first free parliament, we ensured no-one could be arbitrarily detained at the behest of the Government, we forced our rulers to recognise they ruled by consent not by right, we led the world in abolishing slavery, we established free education for all, national insurance, the National Health Service and a national broadcaster respected across the world.

"By way of contrast, the European Union, despite the undoubted idealism of its founders and the good intentions of so many leaders, has proved a failure on so many fronts. The euro has created economic misery for Europe’s poorest people. European Union regulation has entrenched mass unemployment. EU immigration policies have encouraged people traffickers and brought desperate refugee camps to our borders.

"Far from providing security in an uncertain world, the EU’s policies have become a source of instability and insecurity. Razor wire once more criss-crosses the continent, historic tensions between nations such as Greece and Germany have resurfaced in ugly ways and the EU is proving incapable of dealing with the current crises in Libya and Syria. The former head of Interpol says the EU’s internal borders policy is “like hanging a sign welcoming terrorists to Europe” and Scandinavian nations which once prided themselves on their openness are now turning in on themselves. All of these factors, combined with popular anger at the lack of political accountability, has encouraged extremism, to the extent that far-right parties are stronger across the continent than at any time since the 1930s.

"The EU is an institution rooted in the past and is proving incapable of reforming to meet the big technological, demographic and economic challenges of our time. It was developed in the 1950s and 1960s and like other institutions which seemed modern then, from tower blocks to telexes, it is now hopelessly out of date. The EU tries to standardise and regulate rather than encourage diversity and innovation. It is an analogue union in a digital age.

"The EU is built to keep power and control with the elites rather than the people. Even though we are outside the euro we are still subject to an unelected EU commission which is generating new laws every day and an unaccountable European Court in Luxembourg which is extending its reach every week, increasingly using the Charter of Fundamental Rights which in many ways gives the EU more power and reach than ever before. This growing EU bureaucracy holds us back in every area. EU rules dictate everything from the maximum size of containers in which olive oil may be sold (five litres) to the distance houses have to be from heathland to prevent cats chasing birds (five kilometres).

"Individually these rules may be comical. Collectively, and there are tens of thousands of them, they are inimical to creativity, growth and progress. Rules like the EU clinical trials directive have slowed down the creation of new drugs to cure terrible diseases and ECJ judgements on data protection issues hobble the growth of internet companies. As a minister I’ve seen hundreds of new EU rules cross my desk, none of which were requested by the UK Parliament, none of which I or any other British politician could alter in any way and none of which made us freer, richer or fairer.

"It is hard to overstate the degree to which the EU is a constraint on ministers' ability to do the things they were elected to do, or to use their judgment about the right course of action for the people of this country. I have long had concerns about our membership of the EU but the experience of Government has only deepened my conviction that we need change. Every single day, every single minister is told: 'Yes Minister, I understand, but I'm afraid that's against EU rules'. I know it. My colleagues in government know it. And the British people ought to know it too: your government is not, ultimately, in control in hundreds of areas that matter.

"But by leaving the EU we can take control. Indeed we can show the rest of Europe the way to flourish. Instead of grumbling and complaining about the things we can’t change and growing resentful and bitter, we can shape an optimistic, forward-looking and genuinely internationalist alternative to the path the EU is going down. We can show leadership. Like the Americans who declared their independence and never looked back, we can become an exemplar of what an inclusive, open and innovative democracy can achieve.

"We can take back the billions we give to the EU, the money which is squandered on grand parliamentary buildings and bureaucratic follies, and invest it in science and technology, schools and apprenticeships. We can get rid of the regulations which big business uses to crush competition and instead support new start-up businesses and creative talent. We can forge trade deals and partnerships with nations across the globe, helping developing countries to grow and benefiting from faster and better access to new markets.

"We are the world’s fifth largest economy, with the best armed forces of any nation, more Nobel Prizes than any European country and more world-leading universities than any European country. Our economy is more dynamic than the Eurozone, we have the most attractive capital city on the globe, the greatest “soft power” and global influence of any state and a leadership role in NATO and the UN. Are we really too small, too weak and too powerless to make a success of self-rule? On the contrary, the reason the EU’s bureaucrats oppose us leaving is they fear that our success outside will only underline the scale of their failure.

"This chance may never come again in our lifetimes, which is why I will be true to my principles and take the opportunity this referendum provides to leave an EU mired in the past and embrace a better future."

 

[VivaRevolution]

Seems like a European test, like that in the US elections, of whether the center can hold.

I'm leaning towards the belief that wave changes are coming across the globe.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Yes! Get out of there! Should have some sort of Anglo Union instead, strengthening ties and decreasing barriers to travel, work, trade, etc. between the Anglo countries. Screw the EU. Diplomacy should reflect philosophy: the pragmatism of Anglo-American (Analytical) school vs. the useless obfuscatory fuckery of the Continental school.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

wealth transfer in the EU being what they are, no idea why the haves are keeping the have nots around? Id prefer the Mountaineer solution to this if i was:

• Germany
• United Kingdom
• France
• Italy
• The Netherlands
• Belgium
• Sweden
• Austria
• Denmark
• Finland
• Luxembourg

Keep your main contributors.

 

[muaythaibeast]

They shouldn't have been part of it in the first place, but a gutless coward like Cameron wouldn't dare hold a referendum, hes just vote hunting.
The sad part is the alternative is even more gutless. If Corbyn gets power it's the final nail in the UK coffin

 

[threelions]

It's a strange one as it was originally meant to be in 2017, I wonder if he's got info that currently the UK would vote to stay so doesn't want the Out's to have time to convince people.

They shouldn't have been part of it in the first place, but a gutless coward like Cameron wouldn't dare hold a referendum, hes just vote hunting.
The sad part is the alternative is even more gutless. If Corbyn gets power it's the final nail in the UK coffin

Cameron has said this is his last term he isn't going to be part of the next election so there's no votes for him here.

 

[NelmarksGhost]

Yurop is finished.

 

[Corin7hian]

Who thinks the EU will collapse?

 

[Abezal]

Who thinks the EU will collapse?

Soviets Unin 2.0 will fall its inevitable, issues are even funnily similar. Economic, member states up rising same ones and a moslem problem. Both were are also hilariously pretending the problems don't exist to tout the party line.

 

[JDragon]

EU does not need UK. Neither do we need the Visegrad group. IMO all sides would probably be happier if the EU would be back to its core states.

The UK would take a big economic blow (especially London), but they would likely recover.

 

[KOQ24]

Hope they rid themselves from this unelected,fascist pile of shit.
Our Politicians wouldnt dare to let us take a vote on EU Membership.

 

[Abezal]

EU does not need UK. Neither do we need the Visegrad group. IMO all sides would probably be happier if the EU would be back to its core states.

The UK would take a big economic blow (especially London), but they would likely recover.

YAhh you do, you want to sale your shit to them at larger amounts and want educated workers not religions retards lets face it you really are learning that lesson the hard way now lol. Germs export to the Pols alone more then doubled since they entered, none have benefited more with the new east members then Germany. And be happy with Pols on your border your women have a easy =place to run away to to be defended by actual men from jihadi rapists.

Eu would be happier if it stuck to being a trading block not a leftist pc empire with politics forced on all by a senile old bat shit insane aryan female.

 

[Arkain2K]

Hope they rid themselves from this unelected,fascist pile of shit.
Our Politicians wouldnt dare to let us take a vote on EU Membership.

Wait what? A German railing against the E.U? Aren't you guys calling the shots behind the scene?

What the heck is going on here?!

 

[CamelSpotter]

Meh, it seems to me there's little chance of a Brexit happening now.

There is practically no political elite support for it; Cameron will go on the telly again to plead and beg for his position, a courtesy reportedly not extended to a certain pig, the Labour party is against it and so are the Lib Dems. So the "stay in" side has a clear leader (the prime minister) and support left and centre (literally) (in case people do not know this, you need a leading organisation for the campaing to get the public financial aid). They are likely to have most newspapers as well, perhaps even Murdoch (read guardian here).

On the "get out" side, the "vote leave" campaign is basically led by a Thatcher-ite ex-politician turned cookbook writer and is leeking supporters at the moment, while the "leave EU" is affiliated with UKIP and, as such, is unlikely to get support from anyone but the mouthbreathers who voted for that party. So basically, provided the Torries remain neutral as a party, they get part of a fragmented Right wing some of whom will be foaming at the mouth, daily mail in hand, an un-comely sight.

Interesting to see the weird position of SNP (thanks for including this). Surely they can't be seriously trying for a Scotland in, England out kind of thing, probably just posturing.

 

[JDragon]

YAhh you do, you want to sale your shit to them at larger amounts and want educated workers not religions retards lets face it you really are learning that lesson the hard way now lol. Germs export to the Pols alone more then doubled since they entered, none have benefited more with the new east members then Germany. And be happy with Pols on your border your women have a easy =place to run away to to be defended by actual men from jihadi rapists.

Eu would be happier if it stuck to being a trading block not a leftist pc empire with politics forced on all by a senile old bat shit insane aryan female.

LOL I would never relocate to Poland.

The EU being a trading bloc is the CORE of the problem, not the solution. We expanded the EU to include weak countries in the East who do not share our values. And the single reason why Merkel is keeping borders open is for our corporations.

In any case, Germany would suffer from making the EU smaller, but we would still be in much better shape than every single country East of us.

 

[Max Power]

Shit just got real.