Brady > Belichick ?

[Hollywood Jack]

You’re really reaching here lol.. The quarterback doesn’t make a bottom 5 defense go to a potential top 5 defense. Not having JaJameis, literally the worst turnover qb in the league helped their turnover differential sure but that doesn’t make that dramatic of a difference lmfao. The team overall is better, they’re playing better and while Brady is a part of that, he’s not the entire reason.

No, you were. You were acting as if Brady was the lucky recipient of the defense magically getting better. Tell me what defensive talent they picked up this year compared to last year? Literally all of the added talent was on offense. The offense being better made the defense better. Brady has 1/3 as many turnovers as Winston. BIG difference.

 

[Corona]

No, you were. You were acting as if Brady was the lucky recipient of the defense magically getting better. Tell me what defensive talent they picked up this year compared to last year? Literally all of the added talent was on offense. The offense being better made the defense better. Brady has 1/3 as many turnovers as Winston. BIG difference.

I didnt imply that at all, I listed it right after listing the offensive additions as to why the team overall is better. The QB doesn't make a team go from a bottom 5 defense to a top 5 defense, sorry but thats the truth bud. In fact a lot of the GOAT defenses were with teams that had less than stellar QB play. Teams can get better without making dramatic roster adjustments. The offensive line is also much better this year too, they're averaging almost .5 more yards per carry running the ball and have given up like 25 less sacks this year. There are a lot of things to look at when determining why Tampa is better, Brady is part of it, but not the sole reason like people want it to be. Theres at least 12 other QBs you could put on Tampa this year and still put them at 10-11 wins. Stop acting like this is some sensational turn around all thanks to 1 person.

 

[Madmick]

Brady IS the reason why the defense is better. Nothing fucks a defense more than a pick 6 on offense or any type of INT. They had the talent on defense last year, but bum ass Winston put them in the worst positions. Also you guys keep saying 3 wins, but it's going to be 4 wins by the end of the season, and yes 4 wins is a BIG difference. It's a more than 50% improvement from last year.

I hate that people don't understand this just because they play in different units.

If your offense is going 3-and-out on every play your defense not only never gets a chance to rest, but they're always guarding the ball deep in their own territory. The Pats produced 15%-30% fewer first downs this season than under Brady respectively to each year the past decade. Third down and fourth conversion ratio was also dogshit. So their average total plays and net yards per drive, unsurprisingly, were also dogshit. If they're on the field all the time, especially deep in their own territory, because their QB is shit, a defense will give up more yards, more total first downs, and more points. Not their fault.

In spite of contributing so much more production and control on offense than Winston, Brady is still playing with a defense that contributed less this year than it did last year.

Expected Points Added by Defense, (+ is good, - is bad)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020: -13.75
2019: +20.23

Oh, and btw, the Pats contributed -32.66 in 2018 when Brady last won the Super Bowl. :lol:

Whoops, looks like another soaked maxipad argument got blown up.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

I didnt imply that at all, I listed it right after listing the offensive additions as to why the team overall is better. The QB doesn't make a team go from a bottom 5 defense to a top 5 defense, sorry but thats the truth bud. In fact a lot of the GOAT defenses were with teams that had less than stellar QB play. Teams can get better without making dramatic roster adjustments. The offensive line is also much better this year too, they're averaging almost .5 more yards per carry running the ball and have given up like 25 less sacks this year. There are a lot of things to look at when determining why Tampa is better, Brady is part of it, but not the sole reason like people want it to be. Theres at least 12 other QBs you could put on Tampa this year and still put them at 10-11 wins. Stop acting like this is some sensational turn around all thanks to 1 person.

The post I was initially replying to just said that the defense got better, it didn't credit Brady for it. Less than stellar QB play is not the same as a turnover machine like Winston. A lot of those teams were just in a different era of football. But you can have a system/game manager QB (which idiots often claim Brady is) and a good offensive line and running game and your offense is still pretty good, even if the QB really is not.

But what the Bucs had was a gunslinger QB who had some talent and arm strength but poor decision making and gambling. So they had some talented receivers and a QB who could get you 30+ throwing TD but also 30 INT and even more fumbles. I'm not saying Brady is MVP or there aren't other guys who could succeed in his position, I'm just saying he's still top 10, he's not washed, he doesn't have a noodle arm like some people are saying, and they could get hot and have a good run...

 

[SuperHoss]

Not sure how impressive 3 more wins is considering he replaced a guy who had 35 turnovers last year

As for Bill’s record with and without Brady, I’d put more weight on what he did with backup QB’s while Brady was injured/suspended since that’s a direct comparison of team talent. They won 65% of those games which is a better win percentage than any other NFL team in that timeframe. It’s all Brady though

BTW, I’m not one of those people that thinks he sucks, but to act like the Pats success is all down to him is crazy

Brady was 4-5 in his last 9 games with the Pats, throw in that half of their defense opted out this year and that Cam was historically bad and it’s pretty impressive that they’ll likely go 7-9 (with a really good Bills team and a decent one down in Miami in the division)

Why would you put more weight on what he did with backup QBs while Brady was injured/suspended, except that it fits the narrative? We are just going to ignore eight years of coaching in favor of a sample size of what 19 games?

BB went 10-5 with Matt Cassel and missed the playoffs. Only the second time he missed the playoffs during Brady's tenure. Is that worth mentioning?
Two years later, Cassel went 11-5 with the Chiefs, actually got them to the playoffs and made the Pro Bowl. Is that worth mentioning?
Jimmy Garopollo went 2-0, has had an absurd winning record with the 49ers and got them to the Superbowl. Is that worth mentioning?

Your sample size is skewed by two players who although not great, have matched the REGULAR season success they had with BB in other locales. Additionally, what made the Patriots special is NOT their regular season success, though excellent, not unprecedented. It is their Post season success that is remarkable, so two QBs having regular season success does not really prove anything significant at all.

Keep cherry picking data to validate your confirmation bias, but be aware the only thing it demonstrates is your confirmation bias.

 

[Corona]

The post I was initially replying to just said that the defense got better, it didn't credit Brady for it. Less than stellar QB play is not the same as a turnover machine like Winston. A lot of those teams were just in a different era of football. But you can have a system/game manager QB (which idiots often claim Brady is) and a good offensive line and running game and your offense is still pretty good, even if the QB really is not.

But what the Bucs had was a gunslinger QB who had some talent and arm strength but poor decision making and gambling. So they had some talented receivers and a QB who could get you 30+ throwing TD but also 30 INT and even more fumbles. I'm not saying Brady is MVP or there aren't other guys who could succeed in his position, I'm just saying he's still top 10, he's not washed, he doesn't have a noodle arm like some people are saying, and they could get hot and have a good run...

The post of mine you quoted literally listed all the guys on offense they added and said the defense has been better this year as well. I don't have anything against Brady, he's clearly the most accomplished qb of all time and one of the all time greats at any position. My issue with threads like this is trying to make success reliant on one or the other of Brady and Belichick. They were both beneficiaries of each others skill and success and both were fortunate to have many other great players and coaches with them throughout their careers. Same thing with Phil Jackson and Kobe/Jordan or even currently Mahomo/Reid or Brees/Payton. Great players, great coaches and on great teams.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

The post of mine you quoted literally listed all the guys on offense they added and said the defense has been better this year as well. I don't have anything against Brady, he's clearly the most accomplished qb of all time and one of the all time greats at any position. My issue with threads like this is trying to make success reliant on one or the other of Brady and Belichick. They were both beneficiaries of each others skill and success and both were fortunate to have many other great players and coaches with them throughout their careers. Same thing with Phil Jackson and Kobe/Jordan or even currently Mahomo/Reid or Brees/Payton. Great players, great coaches and on great teams.

Fair enough.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Brady is the GOAT. This thread settles it.

 

[Tearjerker]

Lol at hyping up winning three more games and getting a wild card. Brady is worth three more wins than JaJameis at this point. Oof.

Got shit on twice by the real best QB in that division as well.

How badly do you want to trade places with Brady’s son? Hope he wears chapstick.

You realize they still have 1 more game to play against the FalCANs right? So saying they only have 3 more wins is disingenuous.

Also in a 16 game season, 3 more wins is a significant difference.
7/16 = 43.75% winrate
10/16 = 62.5% winrate
and if they beat the FalCANs it would be
11/16 = 68.75% winrate

 

[Dizzy]

You realize they still have 1 more game to play against the FalCANs right? So saying they only have 3 more wins is disingenuous.

Also in a 16 game season, 3 more wins is a significant difference.
7/16 = 43.75% winrate
10/16 = 62.5% winrate
and if they beat the FalCANs it would be
11/16 = 68.75% winrate

And still second place...

 

[My Spot]

And still second place...

And exactly where they were predicted to finish before the season (11-5).

 

[Dizzy]

And exactly where they were predicted to finish before the season (11-5).

Truly incredible.

 

[My Spot]

Truly incredible.

We get it, Brady would be a career clipboard holder without Bill.

 

[Bamboozled]

I hate that people don't understand this just because they play in different units.

If your offense is going 3-and-out on every play your defense not only never gets a chance to rest, but they're always guarding the ball deep in their own territory. The Pats produced 15%-30% fewer first downs this season than under Brady respectively to each year the past decade. Third down and fourth conversion ratio was also dogshit. So their average total plays and net yards per of drive, unsurprisingly, were also dogshit. If they're on the field all the time, especially deep in their own territory, because their QB is shit, a defense will give up more yards, more total first downs, and more points. Not their fault.

In spite of contributing so much more production and control on offense than Winston, Brady is still playing with a defense that contributed less this year than it did last year.

Expected Points Added by Defense, (+ is good, - is bad)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
2020: -13.75
2019: +20.23

Oh, and btw, the Pats contributed -32.66 in 2018 when Brady last won the Super Bowl. :lol:

Whoops, looks like another soaked maxipad argument got blown up.

30 interceptions has something to do with that

 

[Revolver]

It’s nice of Brady to leave the AFC Beast as soon as the Bills became the team to beat. The Bills would be going Balls deep in his sorry ass.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

The Pats had like 10 starters opt out of the season and have piled up injuries. Their issues go much deeper than QB.

It’s taking Brady playing with an All Star team offensively to get to the Wild Card. Good for him, I guess.

You mean the team that has one pro bowl selection. From the defence?

 

[Dizzy]

You mean the team that has one pro bowl selection. From the defence?

Well yeah, he made his weapons look like shit most the year lol.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

30 interceptions has something to do with that

That's precisely the point. Brady has the best TD:INT ratio in NFL history besides Aaron Rodgers. He has a moderately higher TD rate than Winston, and has cut interceptions to 1/3 of what they previously were. That's what the best quarterbacks do.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Well yeah, he made his weapons look like shit most the year lol.

Evans already has a career high in touchdowns and will almost surely have another 1k-yard season after today's game, despite dealing with injuries this year, along with several other receivers and tight ends on the team. He already has just as many receptions this year as he had last year, plus FIVE more TD and counting. I think he'll gladly take that, plus playing in the playoffs for the first time in his career. Guys understand the big picture and winning, even if some of their numbers are down due to a multitude of factors. But the bottom line is that the team is better and the goal is the Bowl...

 

[surgeyou1]

The Pats had like 10 starters opt out of the season and have piled up injuries. Their issues go much deeper than QB.

It’s taking Brady playing with an All Star team offensively to get to the Wild Card. Good for him, I guess.

Not true at all.

Only Hightower and Chung would have started, and both of them are getting old.