Boxingscene Transplant - My Honest Analysis of Your Sport

[Rink]

I hate the apples and oranges argument....and not just from TS, it seems to be generally accepted.

Boxing and MMA are not apples and oranges. They are both expressions of fighting with the same goal in mind, incapacitate your opponent. The only difference is that boxing imposes a LOT of rules where MMA only imposes some.

The less rules you impose the more it looks like real combat. So they totally comparable. We just have to be tolerant of personal preference because they can all be great.

Real/Underground NHB > Vale Tudo > MMA > Muay Thai > Kickboxing > TMA's > Boxing > Olympic boxing

While we're at getting to "real combat." Let's just incorprate guns. No, instead of having boxing or MMA, we should get promoters to sponser wars and have real battles aired live. Once you see B Company, 75th Rangers vs Taliban Insurgents, this MMA fad is going to the grave. Cheney would love this idea.

 

[Steakeater**]

I hate the apples and oranges argument....and not just from TS, it seems to be generally accepted.

Boxing and MMA are not apples and oranges. They are both expressions of fighting with the same goal in mind, incapacitate your opponent. The only difference is that boxing imposes a LOT of rules where MMA only imposes some.

The less rules you impose the more it looks like real combat. So they totally comparable. We just have to be tolerant of personal preference because they can all be great.

Real/Underground NHB > Vale Tudo > MMA > Muay Thai > Kickboxing > TMA's > Boxing > Olympic boxing

That sounds good in theory, but it doesnt mean its applicable reality.

Almost street fights start and end with a barrage of punches via instinct




I laugh when people say muay thai fighters can beat boxers in the streets because they can kick, as if they'll throw set up timing lowkicks in the ring. First person to connect with punches wins, all martial arts (full contact I assume) have an equal chance

 

[Nic Hautamaki]

That sounds good in theory, but it doesnt mean its applicable reality.

Almost street fights start and end with a barrage of punches via instinct




I laugh when people say muay thai fighters can beat boxers in the streets because they can kick, as if they'll throw set up timing lowkicks in the ring. First person to connect with punches wins, all martial arts (full contact I assume) have an equal chance

I've never been in a streetfight nor do I ever intend to get in one but if I felt I really had no choice, I'd clinch and go for a throw rather than risk getting punched. It's stupidly easy to throw untrained guys around, especially when they're pissed off and drunk trying to throw wild haymakers. There's a good chance he'd crack his skull on something on the way down, and I'd go for soccer kicks or stomps either way.

 

[Steakeater**]

I've never been in a streetfight nor do I ever intend to get in one but if I felt I really had no choice, I'd clinch and go for a throw rather than risk getting punched. It's stupidly easy to throw untrained guys around, especially when they're pissed off and drunk trying to throw wild haymakers. There's a good chance he'd crack his skull on something on the way down, and I'd go for soccer kicks or stomps either way.

Agree. Id do anything to avoid it, so if I did fight, it would be because I really want to cause harm, which is why out of anger I would punch. You'd obviously have the right technique from training, but the setups, timing, etc all go out the window.

I think its just so much more natural to punch them tot he ground and then kick shit them out of anger, as oppposed to using strategie, timing, setups, etc.

Basically, Im trying to say the things that seperate the A level fighters from C level fighters go out the window. As long as you are a fighter, you have an equal shot, regardless of martial arts, etc.


Now if its a highschool yard showdown beef or whatever, the MMA guy would probably beat out anyone. Most streetfights just dont happen that way, so its really irrelavant

 

[jlagman]

I've never been in a streetfight nor do I ever intend to get in one but if I felt I really had no choice, I'd clinch and go for a throw rather than risk getting punched. It's stupidly easy to throw untrained guys around, especially when they're pissed off and drunk trying to throw wild haymakers. There's a good chance he'd crack his skull on something on the way down, and I'd go for soccer kicks or stomps either way.

Clinching puts you into stabbing range and because dress code and equipment aren't regulated and standardized in the real world, you've got no idea if he's packing a shiv or not. I don't think any boxing apologists are trying to portray their preferred sport as the ultimate form of self defense, or the "realest" form of combat, but it's probably the best option aside from avoiding the situation entirely or employing a weapon.

 

[Nic Hautamaki]

Clinching puts you into stabbing range and because dress code and equipment aren't regulated and standardized in the real world, you've got no idea if he's packing a shiv or not. I don't think any boxing apologists are trying to portray their preferred sport as the ultimate form of self defense, or the "realest" form of combat, but it's probably the best option aside from avoiding the situation entirely or employing a weapon.

If he has a knife in his hand, hopefully I wouldn't be such a retard to not notice that. If he doesn't have a knife in his hand, he's not going to be able to get one out while I have a full body lock before he's going for a ride.

 

[jlagman]

 

[Steakeater**]

^^^

LOL lets just say you get into a fight with a trained assassin you are fucked

 

[maravillin]

boxing= first love, mma=passion

 

[consortium11]

Whenever people discuss this mythical world of "street fighting" they always forget the two most important styles.

1) Run-the-fuck-away-do.

2) Scumbag judo. Because judo-n't know I've got a knife.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

Evolution.

Boxing started as no holds barred and evolved

 

[Triangle Choke]

That was actually an enjoyable first post from a white belt.

Kudos.

 

[Triangle Choke]

As a closing note, I never understand why street fight scenarios are always discussed in these MMA v. boxing debates. Unless a street fight is 1 v. 1, without eye gouging, hair pulling, biting, groin strikes, or weaponry involved, then you can say MMA is better.

Most casual fans dont even train in the sport (both MMA and boxing), and its those casual fans that determine whether or not a sport is really successful. The reason why MMA is gaining more and more popularity isnt so much that its a better sport but because its generating more domestic (ie/ American) champions and they are better at marketing the sport to youths than boxing at the moment.

With the first thought about domestic champions, boxing at its height had American champions who were brought up through the Olympic system and won gold. Nowadays, American boxing would be glad to walk away from international competition with a medal or two. When you have local champs succeeding at an international level, fans will watch. In the absence of American champs, you have champs from Latin America, Asia and Europe filling the void. In those areas, boxing is as strong as ever.

Secondly, MMA benefits a great deal today because the UFC marketing machine has really done a nice job of promoting the sport to the 18-35 male demographic, using a lot of elements similar to pro wrestling. Its not a coincidence that a lot of pro wrestling fans are MMA fans - the crossover appeal is hard to ignore.

I mean, theres a reason why the biggest star for the UFC is Brock Lesnar. Why the biggest draw in Japanese MMA was Sakuraba, Funaki, Takayama. The music and lights from the intros, the pre-fight hype videos where one fighter talks smack about the other, the fact that the owner is a larger than life personality and is a divisive figure in the sport - MMA is using a proven formula and its working to develop the sport.

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Wow....
this forum..... ugh.


As for mma? blah, meh, wha?, pfft.

 

[jlagman]

Wow....
this forum..... ugh.


As for mma? blah, meh, wha?, pfft.

This thread started out in the heavies, was moved to Mayberry (WTF?), before being crapped into the boxing forum.

 

[MeBig]

I'm a boxing fan, and a crazy one. I thought I'd poke in and thrown down an honest opinion on the whole boxing v. MMA debate, and give you a perspective that does not come from the "lol tight shorts...gay..." school of thought.


I actually do really, REALLY like mixed martial arts. When I watch the ability to control that a skilled grappler has, the placement and setups and combinations of someone who really knows how and when to throw kicks - it's all great in my eyes. Even when the guys are up against the cage pummeling for underhooks or fighting for position on the ground - It's still obvious that there's an enormous amount of tactic and skill being displayed.

That being said, I'll watch even just a "decent' boxing card before a great MMA card if they are conflicting in time. In the end of the day, boxing for me, is just a more pleasing sport. A lot of MMA fans like to talk about how MMA is a more "complete" sport because it's not restricted to the hands, and that's fucking retarded. You wouldn't tell a tennis player that Basketball is a more complete sport because you can throw the ball too...apples and oranges. One is not superior to another simply because of a difference in rules. Of course the comparison is inevitable because they are both combat sports with the objective being out fighting the opponent, but in my opinion I think a lot of the beauty and skill in boxing is BECAUSE of the restriction, because a fighter only has his two hands and his legs to move and fight, I think there's a level of mastery and grace in that itself. It's simply more pleasing to me.

You're going to get a lot of animosity from boxing fans because MMA, the UFC especially is doing very well. A lot of them feel threatened. In my opinion, they shouldn't. As I said before, we're talking about COMPLETELY different sports. The UFC does some great things, there are some obvious problems with having a dominant promotion under which the majority of the popular fights take place, but there are some great benefits to that as well. Were this the case in boxing, we'd have seen Mayweather v. Pacquiao long ago. What you don't get in the UFC is the sense of gravity in a huge fight. Of course, the Rampage v. Rashads and the Brock vs. Carwin and Silva v. Sonnen fights of late generate a good deal of hype and are definitely exciting to see play out - but in boxing BECAUSE of the difficulties of promotion and BECAUSE of the scarcity of mega fights if and when Mayweather and Pacquiao finally do meet - the event TRANSCENDS to fight community and becomes an EVENT for everyone. There's an enormity and gravity to the whole thing that doesn't exist yet in MMA.

Maybe it's historical context. We've been watching boxers duke it out here in America since before we were watching baseball. It's in the grain of our culture, and that of most other places in the world - maybe MMA will get there one day, but for now, it just doesn't compete in that way.

No way I'm reading a boxing vs mma post that long from someone making their first post on SD.

 

[Sandman0405]

Yes, but both are closing in the end of their career. Name ONE HW guy that has that name recognition? That's the biggest problem with boxing: they don't see the future, they promote the same names over and over again until they're 40 years old. Then, nobody's there to replace them when they hang them up. I tell you, the day Maywether, Manny and the Klitchko retire will be the sunset of boxing. Who will replace those guys?

People have been saying this about boxing for decades

"What's gonna happen when Joe Louis retires?!"

Rocky Marciano came along.

"What's gonna happen when Rocky Marciano retires?!"

Muhammad Ali came along.

After Ali, Leonard/Hearns/Hagler/Duran came along. Then Tyson came along. Then Holyfield/Lewis. Then Oscar De La Hoya. Then Pacquiao and Mayweather.

If I had to guess, Canelo Alvarez is the next star post-Pacquiao. But maybe it could be Amir Khan, or David Lemieux. There's going to be someone that carries the torch for boxing.

 

[MeBig]

Wow....
this forum..... ugh.


As for mma? blah, meh, wha?, pfft.

My thoughts exactly.... "boxingscene transplant" yeaokgtfo...

 

[Dragonstyle915]

To the guy saying Boxing is too limited to like. Boxing is limited by design people. It's PURPOSELY designed to have guys with limited options. Thats the entire point.

 

[KlLLEmAll]

I'm a boxing fan, and a crazy one. I thought I'd poke in and thrown down an honest opinion on the whole boxing v. MMA debate, and give you a perspective that does not come from the "lol tight shorts...gay..." school of thought.


I actually do really, REALLY like mixed martial arts. When I watch the ability to control that a skilled grappler has, the placement and setups and combinations of someone who really knows how and when to throw kicks - it's all great in my eyes. Even when the guys are up against the cage pummeling for underhooks or fighting for position on the ground - It's still obvious that there's an enormous amount of tactic and skill being displayed.

That being said, I'll watch even just a "decent' boxing card before a great MMA card if they are conflicting in time. In the end of the day, boxing for me, is just a more pleasing sport. A lot of MMA fans like to talk about how MMA is a more "complete" sport because it's not restricted to the hands, and that's fucking retarded. You wouldn't tell a tennis player that Basketball is a more complete sport because you can throw the ball too...apples and oranges. One is not superior to another simply because of a difference in rules. Of course the comparison is inevitable because they are both combat sports with the objective being out fighting the opponent, but in my opinion I think a lot of the beauty and skill in boxing is BECAUSE of the restriction, because a fighter only has his two hands and his legs to move and fight, I think there's a level of mastery and grace in that itself. It's simply more pleasing to me.

You're going to get a lot of animosity from boxing fans because MMA, the UFC especially is doing very well. A lot of them feel threatened. In my opinion, they shouldn't. As I said before, we're talking about COMPLETELY different sports. The UFC does some great things, there are some obvious problems with having a dominant promotion under which the majority of the popular fights take place, but there are some great benefits to that as well. Were this the case in boxing, we'd have seen Mayweather v. Pacquiao long ago. What you don't get in the UFC is the sense of gravity in a huge fight. Of course, the Rampage v. Rashads and the Brock vs. Carwin and Silva v. Sonnen fights of late generate a good deal of hype and are definitely exciting to see play out - but in boxing BECAUSE of the difficulties of promotion and BECAUSE of the scarcity of mega fights if and when Mayweather and Pacquiao finally do meet - the event TRANSCENDS to fight community and becomes an EVENT for everyone. There's an enormity and gravity to the whole thing that doesn't exist yet in MMA.

Maybe it's historical context. We've been watching boxers duke it out here in America since before we were watching baseball. It's in the grain of our culture, and that of most other places in the world - maybe MMA will get there one day, but for now, it just doesn't compete in that way.

The best part of your post is when you explained boxing only allows punching, but thats not a bad thing. Since there is less ways of winning you truly find out who the better boxer is.

It amazes me how people complain of boredom when watching boxing. If you start to understand whats actually going on, how the chess game is working, you'll really get into it. Like in Ju Jitsu, you see the openings and when the fighter takes them you get really excited because you anticipated it. OR even better, when you don't see the opening and the fighter does something you didn't even know.

Only when you actually understand whats happening does sports become interesting, otherwise your just another person waiting for "something exciting to happen".