Blue Belt beating Black Belt

[Ice 9 Cobra]

not really, his entire premise is completely without merit

you really think that the reason purple belts will almost always beat WBs is because they have been shown secret techniques??

Not nowadays, but back in the day a lot of people were furious at the gracies for withholding technique and intentionally teaching faulty techniques to beginners (gracie gift pass)

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Not nowadays, but back in the day a lot of people were furious at the gracies for withholding technique and intentionally teaching faulty techniques to beginners (gracie gift pass)

My girlfriend trains with a very high level old school Brazilian who when asked about "defending" certain moves or about advanced moves, still yells out "Dat coast you $100, private lesson my friend":icon_chee

 

[fry_ed]

Belt colors don't mean anything. The belt system is flawed. It impedes growth by restricting techniques to certain belt colors. That is the only reason higher ranked belts beat lower ranked belts so flawlessly. If everyone was taught the same things, there wouldn't be a huge gap in skill between belt colors thus making the belt system obsolete.

If you don't think a ALOT of moves are kept from white belts in BJJ I would wonder what gym you train at.

These comments are almost as good as the guy in the rener vs. ryron thread who said that those two "lack polish in their moves." A good day in the f12

 

[Title Fight Productions]

These comments are almost as good as the guy in the rener vs. ryron thread who said that those two "lack polish in their moves." A good day in the f12

What's the difference between a beginner class and an advanced class? What is different in what is being taught?

 

[Calibur]

What's the difference between a beginner class and an advanced class? What is different in what is being taught?

Really? I rarely can tell the difference.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

These comments are almost as good as the guy in the rener vs. ryron thread who said that those two "lack polish in their moves." A good day in the f12

Really? I rarely can tell the difference.

Most Likely because you're advanced. There is a reason white belts arn't allowed in advanced classes. To deny that IMO is silly.

 

[lechien]

Not nowadays, but back in the day a lot of people were furious at the gracies for withholding technique and intentionally teaching faulty techniques to beginners (gracie gift pass)

Rorion told off Royce for teaching certain techniques.

The Gracie gift pass is a legit pass if fine properly.

However, it got countered once a student turned with a judo book with contained the triangle technique.

 

[fry_ed]

What's the difference between a beginner class and an advanced class? What is different in what is being taught?

You probably have a snarky response already planned out, but I'll give you a serious answer.


The advanced class might teach a sequence that involves some kind of anticipation followed by some detailed counter. Let me give an example "advanced" technique..

The instructor lays out the scenario:

You are going for some sort of smash pass (the advanced students know this pass already) and your opponent does a particular counter - let's say that they push on your head a certain way. When the instructor shows this counter, the advanced students all nod in agreement as it is something they've encountered numerous times.

So, the instructor shows a technique to counter this head push. This counter-technique involves fencing your feet (the advanced students know how to fence already), sitting out (the advanced students know how to sit out already), and popping up to KoB (the advanced students know how to transition and maintain KoB already) on the opposite side.

Why would this be inappropriate for a white belt?
a) The white belt doesn't know the original smash pass
b) The white belt doesn't know how to fence their feet
c) The white belt doesn't know how to sit out
d) The white belt doesn't know how to transition to and maintain KoB

So, in the beginner class you learn a,b,c, and d in the simplest way possible -- isolated -- rather than within some complicated chain of techniques that only works for a particular scenario.

Even with things simplified in such a way, it's not until the middle of blue belt that you feel reasonably confident in a,b,c, and/or d.


FWIW:
I'm only a purple, but in my experience many (perhaps 50%) of the techniques taught in the advanced class will not ever be used by a given student. All of the beginner class techniques continue to be used by everyone, however, based on my experience and in talking with veterans of the game.

 

[lechien]

My girlfriend trains with a very high level old school Brazilian who when asked about "defending" certain moves or about advanced moves, still yells out "Dat coast you $100, private lesson my friend":icon_chee

Haha.
Have you heard about the instructor that would teach a specific sub during a private? Then he would match the student against some weaker partner. Student does the sub shown at the private.
Instructor screamed with pride:"that is an $100 move"!

 

[Title Fight Productions]

You probably have a snarky response already planned out, but I'll give you a serious answer.

Wait a minute....... You're honestly going to suggest I'm the "Snarky" one!?!? Your first response to my post was 100% Snarky. All my posts in here have been polite and sincere. Contrary to your "a good day in f12" nonsense.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

You probably have a snarky response already planned out, but I'll give you a serious answer.


The advanced class might teach a sequence that involves some kind of anticipation followed by some detailed counter. Let me give an example "advanced" technique..

The instructor lays out the scenario:

You are going for some sort of smash pass (the advanced students know this pass already) and your opponent does a particular counter - let's say that they push on your head a certain way. When the instructor shows this counter, the advanced students all nod in agreement as it is something they've encountered numerous times.

So, the instructor shows a technique to counter this head push. This counter-technique involves fencing your feet (the advanced students know how to fence already), sitting out (the advanced students know how to sit out already), and popping up to KoB (the advanced students know how to transition and maintain KoB already) on the opposite side.

Why would this be inappropriate for a white belt?
a) The white belt doesn't know the original smash pass
b) The white belt doesn't know how to fence their feet
c) The white belt doesn't know how to sit out
d) The white belt doesn't know how to transition to and maintain KoB

So, in the beginner class you learn a,b,c, and d in the simplest way possible -- isolated -- rather than within some complicated chain of techniques that only works for a particular scenario.

Even with things simplified in such a way, it's not until the middle of blue belt that you feel reasonably confident in a,b,c, and/or d.


FWIW:
I'm only a purple, but in my experience many (perhaps 50%) of the techniques taught in the advanced class will not ever be used by a given student. All of the beginner class techniques continue to be used by everyone, however, based on my experience and in talking with veterans of the game.

so my point was "let's not just disregard this guys suggestion that in BJJ as a beginner student, you are not taught all the same moves as a more advanced student".

I wasn't making judgment, just suggesting he might have a point. People assumed he was talking about what is legally allowed at a certain belt, but ther are other ways of being held back..... Like the one I mentioned between advanced and beginner classes.

 

[KESA]

My girlfriend trains with a very high level old school Brazilian who when asked about "defending" certain moves or about advanced moves, still yells out "Dat coast you $100, private lesson my friend":icon_chee

lolz.

 

[goldfc]

i'll say the same thing to a WB if he asks me about something he isn't ready for eg asking me about rolling to the back from side control before he can actually hold side control properly

You're proving my point. White belts are prevented from learning techniques and that slows down their growth. They could be at a blue or purple belt level quicker but instructors hold them back.

 

[goldfc]

What you should have taken from that was weren't ready to learn those moves yet.:icon_chee

The instructor would not move on to new techniques until he felt the entire class was ready. That means I was stuck doing beginner stuff because everyone else in the class was slow. The instructor would still make us roll against blues and purples even though we didn't know anything useful. I quit after 2 months because I was just going to be throwing money away.

 

[Mise En Place]

so you dont even train bro?

 

[MMAGermany]

always remember, jds has a black belt. im 100% sure that reem would rape him in a grabbling match. does ao even have a belt?

edit: franki mir didnt have a blackbelt in the beginning and still his grabbling was superior to most of the blackbelts nowadays. blakbelts in bjj mean just like nothing in many cases.

 

[Neu!]

always remember, jds has a black belt. im 100% sure that reem would rape him in a grabbling match. does ao even have a belt?

edit: franki mir didnt have a blackbelt in the beginning and still his grabbling was superior to most of the blackbelts nowadays. blakbelts in bjj mean just like nothing in many cases.

Well to be fair very few could give reem a hard time in a grabbling match

 

[DivineComedy]

The instructor would not move on to new techniques until he felt the entire class was ready. That means I was stuck doing beginner stuff because everyone else in the class was slow. The instructor would still make us roll against blues and purples even though we didn't know anything useful. I quit after 2 months because I was just going to be throwing money away.

LOL. You don't know shit about BJJ.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

The instructor would not move on to new techniques until he felt the entire class was ready. That means I was stuck doing beginner stuff because everyone else in the class was slow. The instructor would still make us roll against blues and purples even though we didn't know anything useful. I quit after 2 months because I was just going to be throwing money away.

Yeah I hear ya. To bad you didn't get to start out as an automatic Blue or Purple like those did...............

 

[Higher Learning]

You're proving my point. White belts are prevented from learning techniques and that slows down their growth. They could be at a blue or purple belt level quicker but instructors hold them back.

you are a fkn retard, seriously