BJJ versus Baseball Bat or Knive

[HardEight]

U have to do an outside block or inside block (whatever way he is coming from). Do not run from a knife. Outside / inside block and then reverse punch. All power comes from the hips on the punch. Bjj cannot help with most fighting. A lot. Of other arts is better.

 

[Dr Boondigga]

This is all seems well and good, but what about if it was Sakuraba holding a baseball bat?

 

[Alaskantkdkid]

This is all seems well and good, but what about if it was Sakuraba holding a baseball bat?

Change my last name to something other than Gracie.

Edit: Or change it to Wanderlei Silva.

 

[Rod1]

People saying bats are not dangerous are really naive, a 14 year old with a bat he can barely swing its not the same as a grown man who played baseball at some point of his life.

That being said, the bat its going to give you some broken bones unless the guy wants to kill or severely harm you, the knife is going to cause serious injury.

That being said, the bat is a much better self-defense weapon because it keeps attackers at bay, if you go knife vs knife chances are both are getting injured. If you have a bat vs a knife, you can swing hard outside of their range.

In anyway, knifes are more dangerous, with the bat, you can be lucky if you charge him quickly, which is something hard as people with bats who actually know how to use bats will try to keep distance, shooting will only make you look silly as the bat guy sees you trying to close distance from quite a distance he will simply back or side step as he swings your head when you reach the spot where he was.

Here is a guy with a bat against many guys, see how they tried the close distance, throw a thing and charge, and the "dual charge" thing, none worked as expected.

The best thing you can do against a guy with a bat is throw something or run the **** towards other people, no bat guy would charge into a crowd, they will try to be on the "outside", and throwing a hard thing like a beer bottle can be of some effect but most likely it won't do nothing mainly because people can throw shit or because you are too drunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngAxqXSpmm4

 

[thecreator]

Against baseball bat, use baseball bat choke.

Against knife, use knife choke.

Quite simple really.

 

[Balto]

Against baseball bat, use baseball bat choke.

Against knife, use knife choke.

Quite simple really.

Lol

 

[virtuoso]

Oh man that is a bad knife defense.

If you hate life, practice this one. There are so many things wrong I don't even know where to start. Just don't do it is the best advice.

I haven't ever done knife training, so I wouldn't know. I just thought I'd throw it up there since I saw it recently and thought it was interesting.

But, would you mind telling me what's wrong with the technique? I'm already not going to use it since you said there are so many things wrong with it, but I'm hungry for knowledge and learning what not to do is one of the best ways for me to understand why what you should do is correct.

Thanks!

 

[Mat Nemesis**]

wrist control.

vs bat you want to make them miss first.

I've been his in the face with a metal bat when i was about 9 (on accident) and it wasn't that bad. I probably got a fractured orbital but not that bad.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Defense to a bat attack is actually very easy. Both of his hands are on the bat and there are only two ways he can swing it (overhead or like a baseball swing) either way you just step close to him and tie up both his arms. Fighting with a bat is one of the worst weapons.

 

[Balto]

I haven't ever done knife training, so I wouldn't know. I just thought I'd throw it up there since I saw it recently and thought it was interesting.

But, would you mind telling me what's wrong with the technique? I'm already not going to use it since you said there are so many things wrong with it, but I'm hungry for knowledge and learning what not to do is one of the best ways for me to understand why what you should do is correct.

Thanks!

Okay here are the main issues:

First off, I have just a general gripe. He is not holding the knife correctly in his attack. Perhaps the attacker will be completely untrained and hold the knife that way, but there are also people who practice using the knife which is why they carry it.

Notice how he holds the knife like a hammer; the point of the knife sticks straight up perpendicular to his forearm bone. This is one of the most awkward and useless ways to hold a knife. Try holding a pen this way and see how easily you can cut with it. It's really tough to actually control where it goes and do what you want.

Now hold the knife properly by aligning the point parallel to your forearm bone. You basically cradle the knife in your fingers. In this way, the knife becomes an extension of your own hand. You can now use your fingers to easily manipulate the point and move it much more easily. Also notice how much extra range you just gained with the knife. In the hammer grip, your range extends as far as your hand reaches. With the proper forward grip, your range extends the extra inches of the knife blade. Those extra inches count for a lot.

With that out of the way, my biggest objection is easily his footwork.

Notice how he steps into the knife attack and blocks it. This is a huge mistake because you can easily miss with your block. With the way he is stepping in, if that block fails, he will stabbed badly right in the stomach or chest. Just watch that realistic knife defense video earlier in the thread for an example of how easily a block like that can fail against a real knife attack.

The most important part when defending against any weapon is to use your footwork to get off line. You want to avoid the knife attack by moving away from it. If it is a straight on thrust, you want to circle around (conceptually like a bull fighter pass in BJJ) so that the thrust misses you completely. Then once it misses you, you can try to seize it from the side. For slashes, you again move away to protect yourself. When you move away from the strike, you give yourself more time to react since you are increasing the distance the weapon has to travel. When you move towards the strike, you give yourself less time to react since you are decreasing the distance.

Weapon attacks already happen incredibly quickly. You need as much reaction time as possible. You also need to protect yourself with your footwork as much as you can so that if you miss with your hands, you don't end up with a fatal wound. If you step into the knife attack like they show and hope that your block works, the odds are that it is going to fail anyway and you will be dead for your gamble.

A secondary point of concern is the method of seizing the weapon hand. If you notice from the video, they do not seize the hand. Instead they control the elbow to twist the arm.

You always want at least one hand of yours controlling the wrist. Ideally, you really want two. If you don't control the wrist, the knife can slash out in unpredictable directions and cut you. If you hold the knife in a stupid way like they are showing there, it is much harder for this to happen. However, try holding the knife the proper way I described. Now control your elbow with one hand and move the point of the knife around using just your wrist and lower arm with the other hand. Notice how much control you still have and how far you can reach and cut. Granted these are not particularly powerful strikes, but with a sharp knife it does not take very much force to cut into someone.

Those are my objections to the video as shown. They are critical mistakes that will get you killed against a real attack. If you want to prove it, have your training partner attack you with a rubber knife for real. Attempt to use that technique to defend yourself. After having your guts spilled onto the floor a few hundred times, hopefully you will realize that you can't step directly into the path of a real knife attack that way.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

After having your guts spilled onto the floor a few hundred times, hopefully you will realize that you can't step directly into the path of a real knife attack that way.

Once is enough for me! :icon_sad:

 

[sukotsuto]

Never ever engage with someone who has a weapon unless absolutely necessary. For nearly all cases, just run away.

Now that's out of the way, throw all sorts of shit at the guy with the weapon. Or find some impromptu weapon that's longer than the other guy's weapon.

If you really need to close in and disarm the guy, do what the military combatives guys do - deflect the armed hand (don't deflect the weapon itself with your bare hands) and strike the guy at the same time. You have a split second chance to perform a wristlock. Always keep in mind - if the weapon is still pointed at you, you're doing it wrong. If what he's holding is not sharp and is not a gun, and you're close enough to shoot in, then take him down.


Or the best defense yet, avoid crap like this in the first place. Unless it's part of your job description to handle armed assaults or you're backed to a corner, just run as far as you can away from the assailant. BJJ or not, it's never smart to fight someone armed. Theoretically, if someone has a bat, you have to be 3x more skillful than him to beat him using your bare hands.

 

[Therealmma747**]

I'd run from either lol

its always best to run from both. Street fights are dangerous

when people start bringing in multiple freinds and guns or knives or bat's it gets dangerous

when i was young i thought i could take on anyone. I finally realized they are crazier people out their with less to lose than me.
I had a knife pulled on me
what did i do? i backed down, it made me feel like shit but its watever. that kid later got arrested for massive amounts of drugs

its always better to fight with your mind
even if that means avoiding pointles fights, which can lead to someone being jumped or brining in a weapon to end it

 

[redaxe]

First, I get wrist control.

Then, I get out my gun.

 

[tysnw]

you could do the bas rutten method

while you're being attacked, hand him a knife.

then, 'OH LOOK, a gun!' *Click click* *BANG!*

and it's all legally fine! because, you know. he has a knife and he's attacking you with it.

 

[Kozbot]

baseball bat

shoot in either under or right after the swing, grab onto him and hold onto for dear life, kill him for trying to kill you

knife is more tricky

you need to isolate the knife arm immediately, russian tie up or kimura lock is good for this. knee in nuts repeatedly and then kill.

I have been attacked with a knife and I did exactly this. (except the kill part)

one big mistake with knife defense is waiting for the attacker to start coming at you. attack him first, you can't be afraid of the knife, you gotta jump onto the knife arm and fucking latch onto it for dear life.

another good defense for knife attacks is kicks to the nuts. somebody coming at you with a knife, whip a kick as hard as you can at his nuts.

 

[tysnw]

^why would you bother kneeing him in the nuts if you were planning on killing him

 

[Kozbot]

^why would you bother kneeing him in the nuts if you were planning on killing him

because there is nothing worse then having your nuts kneed into a fine paste before the person you attacked starts scrambling your brain with soccer kicks

 

[virtuoso]

Those are my objections to the video as shown. They are critical mistakes that will get you killed against a real attack. If you want to prove it, have your training partner attack you with a rubber knife for real. Attempt to use that technique to defend yourself. After having your guts spilled onto the floor a few hundred times, hopefully you will realize that you can't step directly into the path of a real knife attack that way.

Alright, cool! Thanks a lot, like I said, I don't have any experience with knives. Soon we're gonna get a new blackbelt moving around the area who is going to start helping at the school I go to and apparently he has a lot of experience in kali. From what I understand that involves a lot of knife/stick fighting. Hopefully I can get some experience from that. Anyway, thanks again! Peace!

Tyler

 

[hughes fan]

Apply a flying armbar technique to the bat. The bat will snap in two from the power of your technique. Then apply the same technique to your attacker's actual arm. It will have the same effect.

Immediately seize your attacker's knife arm in a kimura. Then use the control to make him stab himself in the ribs several times. Shout out "Why are you stabbing yourself?" repeatedly while you do this in case there are any witnesses. Lethal force is very serious, so you want to have a good defense in case any cops show up.

The second one sounds weird but there's a move not too dis-similar to the motion of a kimura in Atemi JJ (self defence) other than you would bring the arm across his face causing his to slash his own face or drop the knife and then carry on the motion which forces him to fall onto his side or back.