BJJ lifestyle = watered down of BJJ?

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Because they no longer are raised in an environment where the are forced to constantly prove themselves.

I think he was being ironic.

They have very limited success in MMA nowadays, but in the early days they were obviously extremely good.

Nobody can possibly accuse the Gracies of "not being able to fight to save their lives", wtf.

 

[toney]

Back in the day Relson was the meanest and toughest of them all . His jiu-jitsu is very fight based . To say that the Gracie's couldn't fight to save themselves is just ridiculous .

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Back in the day Relson was the meanest and toughest of them all . His jiu-jitsu is very fight based . To say that the Gracie's couldn't fight to save themselves is just ridiculous .

According to who? Relson and relson affiliates?

 

[the heed]

According to who? Relson and relson affiliates?

lol

 

[Waldorf]

s. If you're a TKD guy who trains for full contact fighting 3-4 hours a day with lots of hard sparring, you're going to be a striking beast regardless of the fact that TKD may not be the most MMA applicable art. Bendo and Pettis are good examples of that. Same with BJJ vs. wrestling, Judo, sambo, etc. If you train your ass off with a focus on MMA you'll be a badass regardless of the name you put on the art.

I agree with you in theory, but I think some of those arts, Muay Thai, Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, BJJ have a history and a process to train like that and some other martial arts not so much. Training like this reflects what techniques are focused on. I don't know the answer, but did Pettis train full contact 3-4 hours a day while focusing on TKD or when he worked with Duke Rufus? You could train Aikido, and then work with guys at the Aikido gym going full contact at it for 3-4 hours, but I don't think you'll do as well as the guys doing the same training Judo or Greco, because they in an environment where that type of thing is more normal, more people are doing it, and there just better at, but I agree with what I think is your main point. To be good at MMA you have to train your ass off at MMA.

 

[Waldorf]

BJJ black belts of yester-year competed in Vale Tudo because the level of competition wasn't that high.

I think that is the gist of it. BJJ isn't more watered down per say, MMA is just a lot stronger. More athletes, more knowledgeable athletes, much, much, much more opportunity to train and compete MMA than in "old school" Vale Tudo of the 90s and before.

I agree that fighting in MMA was probably seen more as the pinnacle of BJJ for a while, I probably still see this way myself, and that now there is more notoriety to be had being a top level BJJ competitor. It is also true to be at the top level in sport BJJ, you have to focus a lot on that and to be the level in MMA you have to focus a lot on that.

As an aside, I hear the term "BJJ lifestyle" thrown around a lot, but what do people actually mean when they say it? Train a lot, say Brah, and eat Acai? Focus on training, living healthy, and flowing with the go? Gracie Diet, surfing, putting fools to sleep? Making training the center of their life? Kidding aside, I hear it a lot, but I'm never exactly sure what someone is coming from when they say it.

 

[toney]

Well , I've been around for quite a while and have trained with a few in my time . If you ask all the old school guys high ranking blacks and red and blacks you will hear what I am saying .

 

[ShinkanPo]

I think that is the gist of it. BJJ isn't more watered down per say, MMA is just a lot stronger. More athletes, more knowledgeable athletes, much, much, much more opportunity to train and compete MMA than in "old school" Vale Tudo of the 90s and before.

I agree that fighting in MMA was probably seen more as the pinnacle of BJJ for a while, I probably still see this way myself, and that now there is more notoriety to be had being a top level BJJ competitor. It is also true to be at the top level in sport BJJ, you have to focus a lot on that and to be the level in MMA you have to focus a lot on that.

As an aside, I hear the term "BJJ lifestyle" thrown around a lot, but what do people actually mean when they say it? Train a lot, say Brah, and eat Acai? Focus on training, living healthy, and flowing with the go? Gracie Diet, surfing, putting fools to sleep? Making training the center of their life? Kidding aside, I hear it a lot, but I'm never exactly sure what someone is coming from when they say it.

Well since BJJ has its roots in the Japanese art of Judo and that the word Jiu-Jitsu or Jujutsu is derived from Japanese language.

Maybe eating sushi and sashime while listening to Samba and bosa nova.

 

[Jonas g33k]

BJJ lifestyle is about swinging some kettlebells, doing ginastica natural, eating aca

 

[ShinkanPo]

BJJ lifestyle is about swinging some kettlebells, doing ginastica natural, eating aca

 

[BJJ Beginner]

Well since BJJ has its roots in the Japanese art of Judo and that the word Jiu-Jitsu or Jujutsu is derived from Japanese language.

Maybe eating sushi and sashime while listening to Samba and bosa nova.

Considering the historical origins of submission grappling, probably more like eating dolmades and drinking ouzo.

 

[Charlitos1988]

I don't think that has anything to do with his point. I think he's trying to explain how the "BJJ lifestyle" became divorced from fighting.

THAT is the point

 

[Charlitos1988]

BJJ lifestyle:

guys training only to have fun, make friends, lose weight ... a nice Hobbie.

and ZERO relation to fighting.

I got this idea from grappling forum sherdoggers that claim "I dont care about MMA, I just want to roll", "I dont like to get punched in the face", "if you want to learn how to fight go train MMA or kickboxing", "Im not interested on self defense, thats for white belts, I want to roll".

 

[Darwinist]

BJJ lifestyle:

guys training only to have fun, make friends, lose weight ... a nice Hobbie.

and ZERO relation to fighting.

I got this idea from grappling forum sherdoggers that claim "I dont care about MMA, I just want to roll", "I dont like to get punched in the face", "if you want to learn how to fight go train MMA or kickboxing", "Im not interested on self defense, thats for white belts, I want to roll".

I actually think that's a far more healthy mindset that's in the long term more conducive to physical and mental well-being than the old "pitbull" mentality.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

I don't think people should have to fight MMA in order to train BJJ, but I would like to see the art maintain its relevance in that area. That said berimboloing Brazilians have done FAR more to take the art from its vale tudo roots than Americans (if anything the reintroduction of wrestling influences have made the art more suitable for combat, not less.)

 

[soda_popinski]

Im not saying this is bad but this is the real answer why MOST (not all) modern BJJ'ers cant be anymore fighters with enough knowledge to defend themselves on the cage with BJJ only.

I dont think people have any idea what kind of athlete is in the UFC today (these are olympic level, the best of the best, etc). You are trying to figure out why BJJ vs BJJ/MT/Boxing/Wrestling wont win? Get a clue.

I am actually not even sure the point of your post. BJJ was designed for 1v1 where one person who didnt know bjj would get dominated. Not the UFC.

 

[Escabar]

Bjj has changed there is more money in competitions and in training than previously, now guys like Marcelo, Cobrinha, mendes bro's, Braulio etc don't have to fight mma to make money they can live comfortably competing in bjj and training ppl.

Years ago there was very little money in bjj and a lot of top guys didn't have their own gyms so vale tudo was a way for them to make a living hence why the training was focused in that direction.

 

[lechien]

After reading replies from the Murilo thread I remember that in older days, BJJ black belts were also able to fight under Vale Tudo rules (not even MMA! Vale Tudo), that was like the average ability one should have in order to be accepted as a BJJ blackbelt.

Now you see Black Belt that cant hold themselves under MMA rules with BJJ alone training.

Of course the quality of fighters are increased but BJJ'ers nowadays dont know the least aspects that their old counterparts used to know, like closing distance, good takedowns, punch blocking and those things.

I think the reason for this is the environment were BJJ moved to, and that is from Brasil to America, the change of place led also a change of students market, on Brasil you have economical middle class people with the Gracies but mostly the ones training with Carlson and other BJJ trainers were the ones with not too much money or a good job (Im not laughing about them, here is normal to see those situations) so they see BJJ like a WAY to go to Vale Tudo and fight.
This plus the "Im the strongest fighter" way of thiking, make BJJ'ers also Vale tudo fighters.

This radically changed when BJJ go to America were people training were middle class but with lifes insured financially (a job, a family, other goals in life other than fighting) and just trained to be good on the art, not even thinking about Vale Tudo or MMA, just pure BJJ, why? because they didnt have the need to fight, just have fun, loss weight or make new friends... totally different from the goals of people in Brasil about the use of BJJ.

Im not saying this is bad but this is the real answer why MOST (not all) modern BJJ'ers cant be anymore fighters with enough knowledge to defend themselves on the cage with BJJ only.

Because we do not train to defeat other martial artists anymore.
We train to defeat other BJJ players under ibjjf rules.
That is why you cannot jump in a cage and use your current BJJ skills.

 

[KILL KILL]

bjj is only one facet of fighting. One piece does not make a whole puzzle.

 

[Charlitos1988]

Because we do not train to defeat other martial artists anymore.
.

but why?