Bisping tells the painful truth about Mighty Mouse!

Mr. Hammer said:
"Negotiating to make the fight happen" ie asking for millions when he's a proven anti-draw and the fight vs TJ (as appealing as it is) won't break the box office.
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He already has 10 defenses. He should be negotiating for more for a super fight.

Mr. Hammer said:
The fight being at 125 is actually deflecting the argument. Let him fight TJ at 135 if you must. I just want to see him win a fight that justifies the #1 p4p nonsense.
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I don't really care if it's at 135. I'm just talking about all this "DJ is ducking" nonsense.
 
IamStryker said:
He already has 10 defenses. He should be negotiating for more for a super fight.
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10 defenses vs whom? Ray Borg and Wilson Reis? Most champs from the last decade would well exceed that if they were defending against the skill equivalent of Chris Camozzi. Title defenses don't mean shit if they aren't vs notable opposition. Especially if they draw historic low numbers.


I don't really care if it's at 135. I'm just talking about all this "DJ is ducking" nonsense.
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It is a fact that DJ turned down a fight vs TJ Dillashaw to face Ray Borg so he could say he holds the record for title defenses.
 
IamStryker said:
Again I just said that this is my opinion. The vast majority of what you are saying is your opinion as well. Even the belt itself is an opinion. It's an award the UFC gives and lets people keep based on their own interests.

I made similar arguments against the GSP fight and the Conor fight. Those two fights mean nothing to me in this conversation. Expose DJ lol. Those two weren't contenders. They were superstars who get what they want because they are superstars. Also the people they were fighting were not obligated to fight them just like I am saying about DJ. They took those fights because the money was great for them. DJ wants the money as well and he obviously isn't satisfied yet.

There is nothing weird about DJ's demands. The only problem is that DJ vs. TJ probably isn't going to be a huge draw so the UFC isn't offering DJ enough money for it yet. Maybe they will come to terms and maybe they won't.
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Doesn't matter. For the record I think DJ should get a pay raise for the fight. But what he's asking for too much and there is zero reason for the UFC to bend.

I understand that Eddie and ping weren't champs long but they wanted the money fights those two stars brought. It's their choice.

Where it differs is TJ isn't a money fight but, realistically, if TJ signs to make weight, how can DJ hide behind the fact TJ isn't a star?

Those are not legit grounds to deny someone their right. UFC claims TJ has the right. TJ isn't asking for the money DJ is.

So I'm against DJ here. He has the right for a bigger purse but not PPV on someone else's card.

Him saying DJ doesn't get the shot unless they get PPV on a huge card is not fair to TJ. Because UFC won't do it. Get it?
 
Mr. Hammer said:
10 defenses vs whom? Ray Borg and Wilson Reis? Most champs from the last decade would well exceed that if they were defending against the skill equivalent of Chris Camozzi. Title defenses don't mean shit if they aren't vs notable opposition. Especially if they draw historic low numbers.
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Well you cherry picked one name. We all know he has beaten good opposition. In regards to the rest of them there is the good argument that they aren't famous or popular because DJ beats them all. What skills are those other opponents lacking that you attribute to "skilled opponents"? Power striking? BJJ? Wrestling? Boxing? His opponents are not bad fighters they just can't beat DJ.

Mr. Hammer said:
It is a fact that DJ turned down a fight vs TJ Dillashaw to face Ray Borg so he could say he holds the record for title defenses.
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DJ wrote a long post about this which you can read yourself. TJ wasn't even a champion then as well as not being a flyweight. I don't know why fans are so interested in someone pretending to be a flyweight. Do you seriously think TJ wants to go to flyweight and stay there?
 
JayE said:
Apparently the media was in on all those fixes. No major media outlet scored MM/Dodson 1 for Dodson. Only 2 out of 10 major media outlets scored MM/Benavidez 1 for Benavidez. Only 3 of 7 outlets scored MM/McCall 1 for McCall. Johnson must have some powerful people behind him.

There isn't a reasonable argument for scoring Dodson/MM 1 for Dodson. Benavidez/MM 1 was close, but was a pretty straightforward 48-47. MM/McCall was clearly a draw in my view (McCall didn't win either of the first two rounds), and McCall should have gotten a 4th round.
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Our conversation was based on athletic performance.

DJ did not prove in any if those fights he was athletically superior. He got bullied by McCall...flash KO'ed twice against Dodson and ran against Benavidez.

I thought DJ lost all three. It's like saying Florian was athletically superior to Huerta because he won their point fight.

Just inaccurate.
 
DataBreach said:
Doesn't matter. For the record I think DJ should get a pay raise for the fight. But what he's asking for too much and there is zero reason for the UFC to bend.
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Then there isn't much of a reason for DJ to take the fight now is there?

DataBreach said:
I understand that Eddie and ping weren't champs long but they wanted the money fights those two stars brought. It's their choice.
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Exactly what I said. Their choice. Not obligated.

DataBreach said:
Where it differs is TJ isn't a money fight but, realistically, if TJ signs to make weight, how can DJ hide behind the fact TJ isn't a star?

Those are not legit grounds to deny someone their right. UFC claims TJ has the right. TJ isn't asking for the money DJ is.

So I'm against DJ here. He has the right for a bigger purse but not PPV on someone else's card.

Him saying DJ doesn't get the shot unless they get PPV on a huge card is not fair to TJ. Because UFC won't do it. Get it?
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TJ has absolutely no right to challenge at flyweight. He is trying to get the fight but that doesn't mean it has to happen.

TJ is not DJ's responsibility. DJ doesn't need to worry about what is fair or not fair to TJ. I like TJ as a fighter. He is really awesome but I don't see how anyone can say that TJ is getting screwed or anything. If TJ went down and won a fight at flyweight then I would say he has a right to challenge for the belt. I don't believe he is a real flyweight though. I think he is a BW who wants two belts so he will cut hard for one fight.
 
DataBreach said:
Our conversation was based on athletic performance.

DJ did not prove in any if those fights he was athletically superior. He got bullied by McCall...flash KO'ed twice against Dodson and ran against Benavidez.

I thought DJ lost all three. It's like saying Florian was athletically superior to Huerta because he won their point fight.

Just inaccurate.
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So you're backing off your pants-on-head retarded fix claim, then?
 
IamStryker said:
No idea what you are talking about. Reality here is DJ does not have to fight TJ and is not under any big obligation to fight TJ. TJ is NOT the number one contender at flyweight. Go look at the rankings right now. TJ is not on there.



It's the UFC's job to challenge people in their division. If the UFC can't do that then that is on them. Your money on the table comment is kind of ridiculous considering they aren't offering DJ any good money to take this fight.

Conor challenging himself comment is really dumb. People love Conor's personality. He was a big draw before he fought Aldo and still a huge draw even after he lost to Nate. Conor could lose his next two fights and still be a huge draw. Conor is the one about to lose another belt because he isn't fighting the number one contender in his division. He certainly isn't "challenging himself".
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Already answered this in my last post to you. Post #243. Counter that or not. I don't care.
 
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IamStryker said:
Then there isn't much of a reason for DJ to take the fight now is there?



Exactly what I said. Their choice. Not obligated.



TJ has absolutely no right to challenge at flyweight. He is trying to get the fight but that doesn't mean it has to happen.

TJ is not DJ's responsibility. DJ doesn't need to worry about what is fair or not fair to TJ. I like TJ as a fighter. He is really awesome but I don't see how anyone can say that TJ is getting screwed or anything. If TJ went down and won a fight at flyweight then I would say he has a right to challenge for the belt. I don't believe he is a real flyweight though. I think he is a BW who wants two belts so he will cut hard for one fight.
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Just stick to this post. I won't counter the other.

You are rehashing things to your advantage that we are not in agreement over. Your purport that TJ has no right to fight DJ is retarded and has zero merit. UFC wants it. TJ wants it. That's all the merit UFC needs.

Your argument is basically the UFC is bullying DJ into this fight. They aren't. They believe TJ has earned it... and if he makes the weight, TJ deserves it. If he misses weight, no fight. DJ has proven he'll go through a fight camp even if there is a great risk the guy won't make weight, but not for TJ. Right?

If the UFC has deemed TJ is DJ's responsibility then he is. They'll strip DJ for refusing to fight TJ and TJ can cut to 125 and beat the number one contender. Have two straps. Then what can DJ say?

The reason this fight will happen is because when you consider all the outcomes it's better for DJ to take the fight.
 
JayE said:
No, you implied that it was a very real possibility, which is hilarious.
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If Dana believes in fight fixing I'll take his word over yours. Did it happen in DJ's fights? I don't know. Does it ever happen. Absolutely.

But my other counter arguments are much stronger than the strawman you picked out of my pile. Counter those or get lost.
 
DataBreach said:
You are rehashing things to your advantage that we are not in agreement over. Your purport that TJ has no right to fight DJ is retarded and has zero merit. UFC wants it. TJ wants it. That's all the merit UFC needs.
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You and others are pretending that TJ has some right to this fight and that is nonsense. As I said before go look at the flyweight rankings TJ is not a contender. He has no right to this fight and DJ has no obligation to this fight. It's essentially a super fight and no one is required to take a super fight. Anyone who thinks DJ could or should be stripped over this fight is delusional.

DataBreach said:
Your argument is basically the UFC is bullying DJ into this fight. They aren't. They believe TJ has earned it... and if he makes the weight, TJ deserves it. If he misses weight, no fight. DJ has proven he'll go through a fight camp even if there is a great risk the guy won't make weight, but not for TJ. Right?
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The UFC has tried to bullly DJ. Go read the long write up he did on it. I don't know if they are trying to bully him right now or not. They want to put on big fights and make money like they always do. TJ has earned nothing at flyweight. Looks to me like DJ really only cares about the money at this point.

DataBreach said:
If the UFC has deemed TJ is DJ's responsibility then he is. They'll strip DJ for refusing to fight TJ and TJ can cut to 125 and beat the number one contender. Have two straps. Then what can DJ say?

The reason this fight will happen is because when you consider all the outcomes it's better for DJ to take the fight.
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The UFC can't force DJ to take this fight and it would be absurd to strip him over it. That's how it is.

They won't strip DJ lol. How stupid would they look stripping their longest reigning champion for not taking a fight vs. a BW who never fought at flyweight. lol
 
DataBreach said:
If Dana believes in fight fixing I'll take his word over yours. Did it happen in DJ's fights? I don't know. Does it ever happen. Absolutely.

But my other counter arguments are much stronger than the strawman you picked out of my pile. Counter those or get lost.
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Fight fixing definitely happens. To suggest it happened in any of those fights is hilarious. Do you acknowledge that you said something profoundly stupid?
 
DataBreach said:
If Dana believes in fight fixing I'll take his word over yours. Did it happen in DJ's fights? I don't know. Does it ever happen. Absolutely.

But my other counter arguments are much stronger than the strawman you picked out of my pile. Counter those or get lost.
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It's not a strawman when someone responds to what you said lol
 
IamStryker said:
You and others are pretending that TJ has some right to this fight and that is nonsense. As I said before go look at the flyweight rankings TJ is not a contender. He has no right to this fight and DJ has no obligation to this fight. It's essentially a super fight and no one is required to take a super fight. Anyone who thinks DJ could or should be stripped over this fight is delusional.



The UFC has tried to bullly DJ. Go read the long write up he did on it. I don't know if they are trying to bully him right now or not. They want to put on big fights and make money like they always do. TJ has earned nothing at flyweight. Looks to me like DJ really only cares about the money at this point.



The UFC can't force DJ to take this fight and it would be absurd to strip him over it. That's how it is.

They won't strip DJ lol. How stupid would they look stripping their longest reigning champion for not taking a fight vs. a BW who never fought at flyweight. lol
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We'll see what happens. I don't agree with you at all. TJ does not need to perform in the 125 division to merit a fight at 125. That's your opinion.

The UFC and many fans such as myself don't agree with you. We want to see DJ fight a worthy contender. We believe TJ is that worthy contender. If DJ refuses to fight whom the UFC and many fans believe is the number one contender he deserves to be stripped.

And It'll never come to that. DJ will eventually accept a fight with TJ or he'll be stripped. Not because he has defended 9 times... but because he won't defend a tenth time against a worthy contender. You see DJ being offered fights other than TJ?

Yeah, thought so, neither did I. UFC told him to get the surgery because it was TJ or no one.
 
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