Elections Bill Maher - New Rules - Why Dems Lost

[AWilder]

"Voting like they don't live here" is the key point.
Libs in america are some of the most cut-off, clueless, mentally isolated and ideologically locked people i've ever talked to.

You live in an eastern European wasteland. But do tell us about this fantasy of yours.

 

[Hog-train]

that's cool. i'm not! hope this helps.

"Blueprint surveyed 3,262 national and swing state 2024 voters fielded over web panels from November 06 to November 07 and weighted to education, age, gender, race, and 2020/2024 election results. The margin of error is +/- 2.1. The swing state oversample included 1,883 voters."

the majority of people polled were in swing states.

Ahh ok I misread then.

But it hardly matters. Swing states are what counts.

Trans issues doesn't matter for Dem voters. Great - half the country disagrees.

So maybe drop the government policies that are super unpopular with half the electorate.

And again, the majority of ALL Americans - Dem, GOP and Independents - disagree with transwomen in female sports.

 

[deviake]

K. Good luck with all that.

I love Jon but his scope is quite narrow here. He’s glossing over that for nearly 4 years the “woke” or progressive stuff was front and center. His example is cherry picked pandering in specific areas to win. It’s not like toning it down a for a few weeks changes that.

He's basically citing Kamala and Tim wearing hunter orange, flannels and camo hats trying to be regular folk in the 11th hour and ignoring everything they done since 2020 - election didn’t happen. Bill is casting a much wider net and seeing things with a wider scope holding people accountable.

I watch Jon every Monday and Bill every Friday.

Ahh ok I misread then.

But it hardly matters. Swing states are what counts.

Trans issues doesn't matter for Dem voters. Great - half the country disagrees.

So maybe drop the government policies that are super unpopular with half the electorate.

And again, the majority of ALL Americans - Dem, GOP and Independents - disagree with transwomen in female sports.

Do you think "woke" lost the Democrats the election? If you're a Democratic strategist, how and what do you run the next campaign on?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Ahh ok I misread then.

But it hardly matters. Swing states are what counts.

you partly misread. they are swing voters, but most of them were also in swing states. swing states aren't representative of the entire population though. nationwide exit polls are. and none of them have trans shit anywhere near the top of the issues category.

Trans issues doesn't matter for Dem voters. Great - half the country disagrees.

So maybe drop the government policies that are super unpopular with half the electorate.

And again, the majority of ALL Americans - Dem, GOP and Independents - disagree with transwomen in female sports.

i'm sure that many americans, maybe even most, when asked would say they oppose trans women playing with cis women in sports. it's still not a topic that even came up in this election, let alone would it be one their vote is based on.

 

[Hog-train]

Do you think "woke" lost the Democrats the election? If you're a Democratic strategist, how and what do you run the next campaign on?

Why do people need to keep repeating this? It was immigration, crime, economy and finally all the trans bullshit and defund the police type shit on social issues.

If I was a Dem strategist, I would run on economic populism - Medicare for all, focus on federal minimum wage, making college more affordable, etc. All the fiscal policies that are "progressive."

The only reason the Dems only ran on progressive social policies was to appeal to their progressive base. But on on the progressive fiscal policies (that really matter) - they're paid off by the same lobbyists that paid off the GOP.

you partly misread. they are swing voters, but most of them were also in swing states. swing states aren't representative of the entire population though. nationwide exit polls are. and none of them have trans shit anywhere near the top of the issues category.

Yea and the nationwide polls all say they don't like transwomen in female sports.

Your own link on trans issues: 18% extremely important, 20% very important, 25% somewhat important and 36% not important.

So how are you going to claim it's not important at all? Your own link says otherwise.

i'm sure that many americans, maybe even most, when asked would say they oppose trans women playing with cis women in sports. it's still not a topic that even came up in this election, let alone would it be one their vote is based on.

Dude it is a topic that came up repeatedly. Why do you think Trump's anti-trans ads were so effective. It was proven to be super effective.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Yea and the nationwide polls all say they don't like transwomen in female sports.

yeah it's usually about or just over half. 50% or so will say they're against it, 25% say they support it, and 25% say they don't care. so yes, the majority of people polled don't support it but it's not an important topic to them.

Your own link on trans issues: 18% extremely important, 20% very important, 25% somewhat important and 36% not important.

So how are you going to claim it's not important at all? Your own link says otherwise.

are you just ignoring the part literally right under it where it says "those with no opinion are not shown?" your reading is not up to snuff today.

Dude it is a topic that came up repeatedly. Why do you think Trump's anti-trans ads were so effective. It was proven to be super effective.

it clearly wasn't effective if voters are saying they don't give a shit about the topic.

 

[deviake]

Why do people need to keep repeating this? It was immigration, crime, economy and finally all the trans bullshit and defund the police type shit on social issues.

If I was a Dem strategist, I would run on economic populism - Medicare for all, focus on federal minimum wage, making college more affordable, etc. All the fiscal policies that are "progressive."

The only reason the Dems only ran on progressive social policies was to appeal to their progressive base. But on on the progressive fiscal policies (that really matter) - they're paid off by the same lobbyists that paid off the GOP.



Yea and the nationwide polls all say they don't like transwomen in female sports.

Your own link on trans issues: 18% extremely important, 20% very important, 25% somewhat important and 36% not important.

So how are you going to claim it's not important at all? Your own link says otherwise.



Dude it is a topic that came up repeatedly. Why do you think Trump's anti-trans ads were so effective. It was proven to be super effective.

So Bernie's campaign, got it, but did woke lose them this election? And if so, was it only the presidency or other races too?

I'm genuinely unsure where you guys stand. Because the dem strategists were ahead of you and ran on nothing related to identity. Is it like, a certain amount of time that has to go by? She endorsed the Republican border bill too. There's A LOT you're not mentioning so I don't know how you're weighing what worked and what tanked the campaign

 

[Hog-train]

yeah it's usually about or just over half. 50% or so will say they're against it, 25% say they support it, and 25% say they don't care. so yes, the majority of people polled don't support it but it's not an important topic to them.

Just showed you polls saying it's 70% opposed. 50% of DEMS are opposed. Much higher percentage of GOP and Independents opposed. That's why it averages out to 70%.

are you just ignoring the part literally right under it where it says "those with no opinion are not shown?" your reading is not up to snuff today.

it clearly wasn't effective if voters are saying they don't give a shit about the topic.

You're literally twisting in the wind trying to claim it doesn't matter at all. Your own link literally shows people care.

If you want to go with the argument "those with no opinion are not shown" then that applies to EVERY OTHER category in your poll. You're essentially saying your poll from YOUR OWN LINK is useless.

So Bernie's campaign, got it, but did woke lose them this election? And if so, was it only the presidency or other races too?

I'm genuinely unsure where you guys stand. Because the dem strategists were ahead of you and ran on nothing related to identity. Is it like, a certain amount of time that has to go by? She endorsed the Republican border bill too. There's A LOT you're not mentioning so I don't know how you're weighing what worked and what tanked the campaign

Yes Bernie's campaign essentially. I just told you what lost them the election - It was immigration, crime, economy and finally all the trans/defund the police bullshit.

I'm genuinely unsure where you guys stand. Because the dem strategists were ahead of you and ran on nothing related to identity. Is it like, a certain amount of time that has to go by? She endorsed the Republican border bill too. There's A LOT you're not mentioning so I don't know how you're weighing what worked and what tanked the campaign

Because it seems super fake and not genuine. For MOST of the last 4 years, the Democrats were saying there IS NO BORDER issue. They also said there is no crime in the big cities.

They were essentially gaslighting us. Then when polling showed most Americans did NOT agree. That's when they changed their tune. But too little too late.

There's a reason a Trump got a whopping 44% of the vote in New York of all places. New York has been hit hard by crime and the immigrants being bussed into the city. But all the Dems kept going "Nothing to see here."

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Jut showed you polls saying it's 70% opposed. 50% of DEMS are opposed. Much higher percentage of GOP and Independents opposed. That's why it averages out to 70%.

right but that's not the only poll.

Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues

Most favor protecting trans people from discrimination, but fewer support policies related to medical care for gender transitions; many are uneasy with the pace of change on trans issues.

www.pewresearch.org

pew's poll says different.

You're literally twisting in the wind trying to claim it doesn't matter at all. YOUR OWN LINK literally shows people care.

If you want to go with the argument "those with no opinion are not shown" then that applies to EVERY OTHER category. Then you're saying your poll from YOUR OWN LINK is useless.

it shows that even excluding those who dont care about any one of these topics individually, that's still the one they cared about the least lol if you couldn't gather that, idk what to tell you.

 

[Hog-train]

right but that's not the only poll.

Americans’ Complex Views on Gender Identity and Transgender Issues

Most favor protecting trans people from discrimination, but fewer support policies related to medical care for gender transitions; many are uneasy with the pace of change on trans issues.

www.pewresearch.org

pew's poll says different.

This link does not talk about trans athletes in female sports. These are other trans issues. Copy and paste what you're talking about because I don't see it.

it shows that even excluding those who dont care about any of these topics individually, that's still the one they cared about the least lol if you couldn't gather that, idk what to tell you.

You're saying everything that you happen to agree with in the poll counts even though it says "those with no opinion are not shown."

But I'm not supposed to count that people care about the trans issue because "those with no opinion are not shown."

That makes no sense.

Your own link says people care about the trans issue. Then you give the weak excuse - "those with no opinion are not shown."

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

This link does not talk about trans athletes in female sports. These are other trans issues. Copy and paste what you're talking about because I don't see it.

"58% say they would favor policies that require that transgender athletes compete on teams that match the sex they were assigned at birth rather than the gender they identify with."

i was wrong with the splits i gave, but still a far cry away from 70%.

You're saying everything that you happen to agree with in the poll counts even though it says "those with no opinion are not shown."

i'm literally just talking about the list of topics people said were influencing their vote. for ALL topics, those who had no opinion are not shown. so it's still an equal playing field. among the topics people brought up as one they cared about, trans issues were at the bottom.

But I'm not supposed to count that people care about the trans issue because "those with no opinion are not shown."

That makes no sense.

Your own link says people care about the trans issue. Then you give the weak excuse - "those with no opinion are not shown."

well obviously a tiny bit of the population does care, both in favor and against, but the vast majority do not, either way. if you specifically ask people if they support trans athletes competing with the gender they identify as, yes a majority would probably say no. i never claimed anything different, outside of my outdated split which i admit was not current.

 

[UberHere]

There's no point when you're clearly a radical and declaring everything a rational person would call woke as not actually woke. I'm glad people like you were throughly rebuked.

He’s nuttier than squirrel shit

 

[deviake]

Yes Bernie's campaign essentially. I just told you what lost them the election - It was immigration, crime, economy and finally all the trans/defund the police bullshit.

Because it seems super fake and not genuine. For MOST of the last 4 years, the Democrats were saying there IS NO BORDER issue. They also said there is no crime in the big cities.

They were essentially gaslighting us. Then when polling showed most Americans did NOT agree. That's when they changed their tune. But too little too late.

There's a reason a Trump got a whopping 44% of the vote in New York of all places. New York has been hit hard by crime and the immigrants being bussed into the city. But all the Dems kept going "Nothing to see here."

Aight so a combination of factors, fair enough. But understand, even just saying, "Bernie's campaign essentially", you hit the real problem, the big kahuna. They can't run that campaign and Maher didn't mention that which is like being in Chernobyl and instead of looking at the reactor, you're mad cuz the microwave didn't cook the middle of your burrito.

The Dems largely adopted Republican framing on immigration (and left some of Trump's border policy in place till this year) instead of saying, "hey, we gotta manage this shit better but immigrants ain't bad, mmkay?" He nor you have mentioned how much of the Democratic base isn't happy about Gaza (we know why Bill didn't mention that). Crime I can't comment on, from what I've seen it's gone down under Biden but some people say that's fake news; I haven't looked into it. I also question how much people care about trans stuff. There's like a few dozen trans athletes up to the varsity level I think? It ain't exactly a big deal nor a reason to throw trans people under the bus. I think obnoxious, overly proselytizing libs are getting more credit than they deserve. The dems are milquetoast which is why they don't have a strong, coherent message like a Trump or a Bernie. They're trying to serve corporations while giving the people enough crumbs and reach arounds to not upset the status quo which leads to inconsistency and wishy washy politics. They're appealing to a base that won't vote for them instead of their own.

Bernie's campaign was pro social stuff but attacked the big economic issues and people were cool with it.

 

[ShadowRun]

Another exsmple

 

[Eusung]

This KAZ guy trying to convince us Kamala wasn't woke sounds like he listens to Kyle Kulinski



He gets destroyed in the comments:

 

[Hog-train]

"58% say they would favor policies that require that transgender athletes compete on teams that match the sex they were assigned at birth rather than the gender they identify with."

i was wrong with the splits i gave, but still a far cry away from 70%.

Yea I'm calling total bullshit.

"17% oppose this, 24% neither favor nor oppose."

So only 17% oppose transwomen in female sports? Bull fucking shit.

Notice this poll was in 2022. This was BEFORE the whole Lia Thomas controversy BTW.

The Gallup poll was much more recent.

And there are other ones too like this one in 2024. Shows 66% against transwomen in female sports.

Loading…

www.norc.org

i'm literally just talking about the list of topics people said were influencing their vote. for ALL topics, those who had no opinion are not shown. so it's still an equal playing field. among the topics people brought up as one they cared about, trans issues were at the bottom.

Yet they still cared.

well obviously a tiny bit of the population does care, both in favor and against, but the vast majority do not, either way. if you specifically ask people if they support trans athletes competing with the gender they identify as, yes a majority would probably say no. i never claimed anything different, outside of my outdated split which i admit was not current.

Your own link says 18% extremely important, 20% very important, 25% somewhat important. That's 63% total. How is that a "tiny bit?"

You're purposefully minimizing it.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Yea I'm calling total bullshit.

"17% oppose this, 24% neither favor nor oppose."

So only 17% oppose transwomen in female sports? Bull fucking shit.

oh right they just made it up. sure man. the most respected pollsters in the country are just lying.

Notice this poll was in 2022. This was BEFORE the whole Lia Thomas controversy BTW.

what controversy? a trans girl who was really good as a man before transitioning was also really good as a girl, though her race times dropped drastically. she's also basically the only trans woman to ever be good at a high level ever. and she's still not world level.

The Gallup poll was much more recent.

And there are other ones too like this one in 2024. Shows 66% against transwomen in female sports.

Loading…

www.norc.org

then maybe my data is old and some people are getting more transphobic on the issue.

Yet they still cared.

there are definitely some people who care. this forum and your endless fuming is proof of that.

Your own link says 18% extremely important, 20% very important, 25% somewhat important. That's 63% total. How is that a "tiny bit?"

because that percentage is not the percentage of all people who responded lol

 

[Hog-train]

oh right they just made it up. sure man. the most respected pollsters in the country are just lying.

So Pew is respected, but Gallup is not? Gallup must be lying?

Listen to yourself.

Gallup and other polls are much more recent too. Does only 17% of the population against biological men in female sports sound realistic to you? C'mon - that's obviously false.

what controversy? a trans girl who was really good as a man before transitioning was also really good as a girl, though her race times dropped drastically. she's also basically the only trans woman to ever be good at a high level ever. and she's still not world level.

Lia Thomas was all over the news for months. That's called a controversy.

Wasn't really good as a guy. Was good as a girl. Record and rankings are on the Wikipage for anyone to see.

And not true that Thomas was the only good girl. Volleyball player Blaire Fleming who is embroiled in a lawsuit, Olympian weightlifter Laurel Hubbard, FIFA athlete Jaiyah Saelua, NCAA track athlete Andraya Yearwood, etc.

then maybe my data is old and some people are getting more transphobic on the issue.

there are definitely some people who care. this forum and your endless fuming is proof of that.

because that percentage is not the percentage of all people who responded lol

Yep people care. It's the biggest bullshit ever. And people gaslighting about it is pissing people off even more. It's telling people the sky is not blue and expecting you to accept it. The natural reaction is to say fuck you.

Every single one of my friends is against that shit. Majority of them being New York Democrats and sports fans.

The sooner the Democrats let go of this issue the better.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Do you think "woke" lost the Democrats the election? If you're a Democratic strategist, how and what do you run the next campaign on?

Probably. They need to stop their insane stances with the border, crime and rainbow BS. And start acting like the Democrats of the 90s again. Be anti-war, pro-freedom of speech, the party of the working class.

 

[ShadowRun]

No one cares about men's in woman's sports, it's hardly talked about ..