Media Big John putting some blame on Ref Mark Smith over Yan vs Aljo situation

[Huligani]

If the guy that's losing gets fouled it should be a NC. Had he been winning prior to the shot then I'd agree with a dq. If the shot is extremely unlikely to affect the outcome (which is an L for Aljo) then a NC is a gift in itself.

The rules say nothing about whether or not the fighter who committed the foul is winning. Yan was guilty of a "flagrant foul" undeniably, and so he was disqualified as per the rules.

 

[Ares Black]

Big John McCarthy is a moron. In no universe is that a No Contest.

 

[Kono dio da!]

Imagine blaming the ref for doing his job and not yan for cheating. Hilarious. Best ref ever, shit take. Chael sonnen level shit.

 

[sakaimma]

Was Sterling acting? Hell yes and he did a terrible job. Was he wrong for taking the DQ and winning the title? No, his life basically changed as he’s going to be making champions money at least for the next fight. Why would he continue fighting when it’s Yan’s fault for kneeing him? Who knows if that shot could’ve had lasting effect for the duration of the fight if he continued. I know the average sherdoggers are all 6’6, 250 ripped and tough guys who fights to the death, but don’t tell me you wouldn’t do the same when you know a shit load of money is on the line. I swear people will say anything when they don’t know what’s it like to risk your health in a sport that only the top of the top gets paid. You do what it takes to better your career and get paid more as most fighters doesn’t last long.

 

[blaseblah]

I posted this video in another thread but I thought it needed it's own thread. John and Josh discuss the ref Mark Smith and the commentating in that situation. It's time stamped




Cliffs
-Ref Mark Smith should've never mentioned to the commissioner or the doctor it was going to be a DQ, let alone in front of Aljo
-Aljo started milking it when the ref said this
- Josh and John think the commentators need to be careful what they say with no fans, it influences the fighters
-Josh thinks Aljo basically deserves an Oscar, fans won't want to watch him now
-Big John said the ref should've called the fight without talking about a DQ, ruled a NC or took a point and went to the scorecards...resulting in a majority draw...
-They both talked about Ray Longo's team milking these situations in the past with Chris Weidman vs Moose...Worked against them last time...

Take a point for a flush knee that put Aljo down? No, it should have been a DQ, though he's right that they shouldn't have been talking about it.

 

[markg171]

Responding to the cliffs, if Big John thinks that should've been a NC and not a DQ, then I'm glad he's retired because that'd just be awful, objectively incorrect officiating.

I don't think he's saying that. He saying he could've and should've stopped the fight without telling everybody WHY, so that Aljo couldn't milk it as soon as he knew it was going to be a DQ and thus had every reason to pretend he couldn't continue.

That way if Aljo thinks he's gotten the DQ victory, Bruce could instead announce they're going to a technical decision due to Aljo declaring himself unable to continue, and Aljo instead gets fucked.

Aljo should've never known he could win the fight by saying he can't continue, and the ref had plenty of options available to stop the fight without Aljo necessarily winning.

 

[King in the North]

If someone who hits as hard as @%@ Yan egregiously fouls you by holding your neck and letting a full force knee fly into your head, why in the world should you even be allowed to continue?

Who here is arguing Yan doesn't hit hard?

You run it back, this is common sense.

This is important and 100% on the money. Aljo’ “acting” isn’t even relevant if it’s correctly officiated. Ref sees an illegal blow that is clearly going to prevent a fighter from continuing. Ref stops the fight. End of discussion.

 

[DivineMind]

He didn’t mention it in front of Aljo he whispered it to a Doctor. Big John is just retarded, as usual.

100% of the blame is on Yan. Not Aljo. Not the ref. All Yan.

They have a lot more experience in the fight game than you.

And they saw a man gesticulating to get a cheap dq win instead of acting normally. They've seen hundreds of people kod and none of them acted like that with the googly eyes.

Clearly aljo believed he would get the victory. Could have been because he heard the ref talking, could be training from his coaches on how to act in that situation, but it was an act.

I don't see how Aljo is blameless in that situation if he purposefully embellished.

 

[Stop Being Greedy]

Arrogant smug cop has opinions that frame him as smarter than everyone else? Well, color me shocked.

BJM was a shit overrated ref who was constantly barking orders and putting himself as the center of attention. The sign of a good ref is that you don't even notice them until it's time to actually give warnings or act. This dude has been talking himself up more and more in recent years and it's fucking embarrassing.

 

[markg171]

If someone who hits as hard as @%@ Yan egregiously fouls you by holding your neck and letting a full force knee fly into your head, why in the world should you even be allowed to continue?

Because being allowed to continue should actually be determined by your ability to continue...? Not your ability to pretend you can't...? If you haven't been KO'd it's just any other foul, same way nut shots, eye pokes, etc. won't end a fight by foul unless they're actually fight ending.

There's a reason why it took so long for the ref and doc to end the fight. They both clearly thought he was fine, but couldn't do anything with Aljo himself saying and pretending he wasn't. If Aljo says he can't then they have to take him at his word.

 

[sakaimma]

If someone who hits as hard as @%@ Yan egregiously fouls you by holding your neck and letting a full force knee fly into your head, why in the world should you even be allowed to continue?

Who here is arguing Yan doesn't hit hard?

You run it back, this is common sense.

Completely agree with you.

 

[Handsome Bruce]

The rules need to be changed so that knees are allowed to a grounded opponent. It is a stupid rule.

 

[rjmbrd]

Because being allowed to continue should actually be determined by your ability to continue...? Not your ability to pretend you can't...?

Assuming we're all adults here, we should agree there isn't a magic wand of information that will tell the official if the fighter who was fouled is concussed or compromised.

There's a reason why it took so long for the ref and doc to end the fight. They both clearly thought he was fine, but couldn't do anything with Aljo himself saying and pretending he wasn't.

You literally just made this up...

If Aljo says he can't then they have to take him at his word.

Only a moron would say Petr Yan doesn't hit hard. We agree?

Let Petr Yan hold you with both hands by your neck, and let fly a full clip knee to your head. Let me know if you feel affected by it.

Its like talking to kids with this stuff. Its common sense Yan compromised him. Continuing shouldn't even be an option. Follow the rules and none of this is even a factor.

 

[King in the North]

They have a lot more experience in the fight game than you.

And they saw a man gesticulating to get a cheap dq win instead of acting normally. They've seen hundreds of people kod and none of them acted like that with the googly eyes.

Clearly aljo believed he would get the victory. Could have been because he heard the ref talking, could be training from his coaches on how to act in that situation, but it was an act.

I don't see how Aljo is blameless in that situation if he purposefully embellished.

Because his acting isn’t relevant to the decision making if correctly officiated. Ref sees blatantly illegal and fight changing blow. Ref stops the fight.

I don’t know how brain dead you must be to have watched that knee land and not think of he initial reaction was genuine. How is a fighter to act in that situation, in your expert opinion? What would constitute normal?

You can speculate as to how badly Aljo was actually hurt, or if he played it up. You can speculate that Aljo KNEW he would get a cheap victory. But in the moment we don’t know. What we do know is that Yan threw a blatantly illegal strike that prevented his opponent from continuing. That’s why he gets the blame.

 

[ultramanhyata]

If he knew he would get a no contest instead of a title he would have been back on his feet in 30 seconds.

Not if he knew he was gassing hard and on his way to losing. An NC at that point in the fight would have basically granted Aljo an immediate rematch. He could have gotten a do over with a new camp and new conditioning protocols.

There is also a third option after DQ and NC... That is stopping the fight at the point of the foul and going to the scorecards to determine the winner.

 

[Rorschachxx]

No matter how you twist it, everybody is at fault for this. Yans dumbass corner for telling him to attack the knee, Yan himself for not knowing its illegal, Smith for talking too much, (esp. close to Aljo), Aljo for milking it, Aljos team for wanting to milk it.

Noone won yesterday.

 

[Sticko]

-Big John said the ref should've called the fight without talking about a DQ, ruled a NC or took a point and went to the scorecards...resulting in a majority draw...

That would be the correct outcome if it were an accidental foul. If the fight is more than half over you score the incomplete round, including the point deduction, and it goes to scorecards for a technical decision, which would have most likely been a majority draw.

However, the ref ruled the foul was intentional so loss by disqualification is the only outcome allowed by the rules. If Sterling had been able to continue, because the foul was intentional it would have been a 2-point deduction.

 

[UFCBlackbelt]

Its really shitty to hear two men who have no fucking clue what Aljo is feeling in that moment confidently say he was acting. Please allow yourselves to be kneed in the temple when you're so gassed you can barely stand, and then lets see how much of a performance it is.

I'm really surprised to hear this from Big John especially, who typically is not the type of guy to speculate on this kind of stuff.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

I disagree. I thought Smith handled it perfectly. He was whispering to the commissioner so Aljo couldn't hear what was going on. He didn't want him to know he was being tested for cognitive skills and also didn't know it would be a DQ if he couldn't continue.

Smith handled it perfectly and while it's not a pretty/clean win, that's exactly what is supposed to happen when a champion commits an intentional, fight ending foul. You lose your belt. That rule is there for a reason.

 

[sissypunch]

I feel like Big John should be called Fat John and he should just shut up.