Media Big John putting some blame on Ref Mark Smith over Yan vs Aljo situation

[jeff7b9]

Responding to the cliffs, if Big John thinks that should've been a NC and not a DQ, then I'm glad he's retired because that'd just be awful, objectively incorrect officiating.

Right.

There is nothing to debate or interpret here.

It was an illegal strike.
It was an intentional strike.
It caused damage that made opponent unable time continue.

That is a DQ. Period.

He knew Aljo was down.
He is responsible for knowing the rules.
If he pretends he didn’t know it was illegal that doesn’t matter.

 

[TomTomNT]

its accurate... Yan doesnt speak good english, how do we even know he understood what the ref meant? Very possible he thought when the hands came up it was legal to knee cuz thats exactly when he threw that knee and the ref saying "i told him he was downed and he threw it anyways" is stupid, Yan was winning the fight, he had no reason to throw an illegal strike if he knew it was illegal so that whole argument ppl are bringing up is pretty dumb

Also as most ppl with a brain thought, even pro fighters and refs agree that Aljo was acting, no one acts that way after being knocked out or dazed, shit was cringe acting and should not be shown any respect

 

[chem31]

Its really shitty to hear two men who have no fucking clue what Aljo is feeling in that moment confidently say he was acting. Please allow yourselves to be kneed in the temple when you're so gassed you can barely stand, and then lets see how much of a performance it is.

I'm really surprised to hear this from Big John especially, who typically is not the type of guy to speculate on this kind of stuff.

Pretty sure both guys have taken at least one knee to the head in their lives. They both have way more experience with this type of shit than the vast majority of people. BJM has seen this type situation many times refing and calling fights since the beginning of MMA, he would definitely know what acting looks like. Same for Josh Thomson, he lived this shit, fighting and training since 2001.

 

[chem31]

Right.

There is nothing to debate or interpret here.

It was an illegal strike.
It was an intentional strike.
It caused damage that made opponent unable time continue.

That is a DQ. Period.

He knew Aljo was down.
He is responsible for knowing the rules.
If he pretends he didn’t know it was illegal that doesn’t matter.

It was an illegal strike. - Yes
It was an intentional strike. - Debatable, Yan may not have known he was throwing an illegal strike, watch the video in the post.
It caused damage that made opponent unable time continue. - Very debatable watch the fucking video in the post.

He was trying to win a fight by acting more hurt than he was to exploit the rules. People watch and support MMA to see who is the better fighter, not who can exploit the rules to get a win without winning a fight. Trying to take a win without besting your opponent at fighting is dishonorable, not fair to your opponent and bad for the sport.

Fighters get hit with hard shots and continue to fight all the time, it's part of the game. Illegal strikes are unavoidable during a fight and happen all the time and only fighters who don't believe they can win in a honest way milk them to get money and accolades they don't deserve.

 

[Krixes]

its accurate... Yan doesnt speak good english, how do we even know he understood what the ref meant? Very possible he thought when the hands came up it was legal to knee cuz thats exactly when he threw that knee and the ref saying "i told him he was downed and he threw it anyways" is stupid, Yan was winning the fight, he had no reason to throw an illegal strike if he knew it was illegal so that whole argument ppl are bringing up is pretty dumb

Also as most ppl with a brain thought, even pro fighters and refs agree that Aljo was acting, no one acts that way after being knocked out or dazed, shit was cringe acting and should not be shown any respect

Good point. I should've added that to the cliffs. My cliffs suck since I wrote them real quick since I felt bad for forgetting to add them.

 

[Nuclear Fallout]

Every fighter knows he can win the match by illegal moves from opponent. It wouldn't have mattered if it was said in front of Sterling or not.

 

[Sticko]

I was thinking it would be ruled a NC? but they must have thought it was deliberate. Usually, you get a warning first before a point deduction. However, when it is a kick or knee to a downed opponent than its not a warning which makes sense. Or else everyone would do that one kick or knee to the head to win fights.

It can't be a NC because the fight was more than half over. If it's accidental it goes to the scorecards for a technical decision. If it's intentional it's a DQ loss.

Yan did get warned that Aljo was a grounded opponent before he threw the knee, which is why the ref ruled it intentional.

 

[Nuclear Fallout]

It was an illegal strike. - Yes
It was an intentional strike. - Debatable, watch the video in the post.
It caused damage that made opponent unable time continue. - Very debatable watch the fucking video in the post.

He was trying to win a fight by acting more hurt than he was to exploit the rules. People watch and support MMA to see who is the better fighter, not who can exploit the rules to get a win without winning a fight. Trying to take a win without besting your opponent at fighting is dishonorable, not fair to your opponent and bad for the sport.

Fighters get hit with hard shots and continue to fight all the time, it's part of the game. Illegal strikes are unavoidable during a fight and happen all the time and only fighters who don't believe they can win in a honest way milk them to get money and accolades they don't deserve.

It was an intentional strike, landed flush and hard. He may have over acted, but he was hurt. I can't believe people are siding with the guy who kneed a downed opponent. He could have punched or even went for a submission, but he made the choice to knee knowing the consequences. Stop trying to act like Sterling is in the wrong. You'd be out of your mind to not take the win, especially knowing you were losing. If UFC was honorable, a lot of shit that goes on wouldn't be happening.

 

[IATAvalanche]

I posted this video in another thread but I thought it needed it's own thread. John and Josh discuss the ref Mark Smith and the commentating in that situation. It's time stamped




Cliffs
-Ref Mark Smith should've never mentioned to the commissioner or the doctor it was going to be a DQ, let alone in front of Aljo
-Aljo started milking it when the ref said this
- Josh and John think the commentators need to be careful what they say with no fans, it influences the fighters
-Josh thinks Aljo basically deserves an Oscar, fans won't want to watch him now
-Big John said the ref should've called the fight without talking about a DQ, ruled a NC or took a point and went to the scorecards...resulting in a majority draw...
-They both talked about Ray Longo's team milking these situations in the past with Chris Weidman vs Moose...Worked against them last time...

who gives a fuck? yan broke the rules and paid the consequences.

 

[Danis_champ]

Big John is retarded. How can this be NC? If Sterling had kneed Yan in the head like that would John be talking the same stuff? Sterling was down on the scorecard and could have made intentional foul to get the NC result so that he avoids the L. Fighters will start making intentional fouls when they are down on the scorecards think about it.

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

View attachment 838765

That's not how fights are scored.

 

[DivineMind]

Because his acting isn’t relevant to the decision making if correctly officiated. Ref sees blatantly illegal and fight changing blow. Ref stops the fight.

I don’t know how brain dead you must be to have watched that knee land and not think of he initial reaction was genuine. How is a fighter to act in that situation, in your expert opinion? What would constitute normal?

You can speculate as to how badly Aljo was actually hurt, or if he played it up. You can speculate that Aljo KNEW he would get a cheap victory. But in the moment we don’t know. What we do know is that Yan threw a blatantly illegal strike that prevented his opponent from continuing. That’s why he gets the blame.

So we can only assign blame based on what we know to be absolutely proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Maybe in a court of law bruh, but this is the court of public opinion.

Apparently Big John, myself, and thousands of other people are all brain dead because all of our BS detectors went off at the same time when Aljo gave the ref his Razzy Award quality performance.

No one is doubting the knee hurt, but we know Aljo was embellishing to steal a win. He could have continued.

 

[RampageFaction]

Josh isn’t exactly impartial. The knee was as solid as it was illegal. I still feel Aljo milked it but I’m not hating on him, he shouldn’t have had to continue if he was compromised even a little from the knee.

 

[Ruke Doufus]

View attachment 838783

The rules say nothing about whether or not the fighter who committed the foul is winning. Yan was guilty of a "flagrant foul" undeniably, and so he was disqualified as per the rules.

Notice how I said it "should be". I understand the rules but I think they should be tweaked to prevent pathetic soccer-esque flopping.

 

[spinup]

Cliffs
-Ref Mark Smith should've never mentioned to the commissioner or the doctor it was going to be a DQ, let alone in front of Aljo
-Aljo started milking it when the ref said this
- Josh and John think the commentators need to be careful what they say with no fans, it influences the fighters

Meh.
Aljo didn't need the ref to know that he would get a DQ if he stayed down. it's the rules, there are precedents (like Greg Hardy vs Allen Crowder).

And frankly, what if a fighter is too concussed to think clearly and decides to go back fighting? This is way worse.
The ref should judge himself if the fighter is compromised, eventually with the doctor's advice.

 

[DrTrouble]

It was an illegal strike. - Yes
It was an intentional strike. - Debatable, Yan may not have known he was throwing an illegal strike, watch the video in the post.
It caused damage that made opponent unable time continue. - Very debatable watch the fucking video in the post.

He was trying to win a fight by acting more hurt than he was to exploit the rules. People watch and support MMA to see who is the better fighter, not who can exploit the rules to get a win without winning a fight. Trying to take a win without besting your opponent at fighting is dishonorable, not fair to your opponent and bad for the sport.

Fighters get hit with hard shots and continue to fight all the time, it's part of the game. Illegal strikes are unavoidable during a fight and happen all the time and only fighters who don't believe they can win in a honest way milk them to get money and accolades they don't deserve.

As Roger Goddell said once, ignorance is not an excuse. Yan meant to throw that knee whether he knew it was illegal or not is his own fault.

You can't bite or poke someone in the eye and say you didn't know it was illegal and have it be excusable.

 

[DrTrouble]

So we can only assign blame based on what we know to be absolutely proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?

Maybe in a court of law bruh, but this is the court of public opinion.

Apparently Big John, myself, and thousands of other people are all brain dead because all of our BS detectors went off at the same time when Aljo gave the ref his Razzy Award quality performance.

No one is doubting the knee hurt, but we know Aljo was embellishing to steal a win. He could have continued.

So you're saying a guy should be allowed to throw an illegal blow so long as his opponent can continue?

 

[GrantSorenson]

Was Sterling acting? Hell yes and he did a terrible job. Was he wrong for taking the DQ and winning the title? No, his life basically changed as he’s going to be making champions money at least for the next fight. Why would he continue fighting when it’s Yan’s fault for kneeing him? Who knows if that shot could’ve had lasting effect for the duration of the fight if he continued. I know the average sherdoggers are all 6’6, 250 ripped and tough guys who fights to the death, but don’t tell me you wouldn’t do the same when you know a shit load of money is on the line. I swear people will say anything when they don’t know what’s it like to risk your health in a sport that only the top of the top gets paid. You do what it takes to better your career and get paid more as most fighters doesn’t last long.

I bet on Yan and lost my money but I totally agree. Some fighters would rather just fight to the end no matter what and will continue after injuries like that. I don't mind Aljo doing it but you can't be mad at people calling you out for doing it. Especially when he's saying things like he didn't want to win it this way etc. He did want to win it this way once he knew he had the opportunity. Yan takes all the blame but he will win the rematch.

 

[DivineMind]

So you're saying a guy should be allowed to throw an illegal blow so long as his opponent can continue?

There could have been a point deduction.

You all are forgetting that this exact situation happened in Jones vs Smith. Smith handled it the correct way. That would be the better alternative.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

To be fair I think the ref was put into a extremely difficult situation, I really can't blame him.. On one hand it was totally Yan's fault because that knee landed clean and flush and was 100% illegal, and at the same time I think Sterling was milking it, he was hurt I feel, but he was milking it for sure.. I think the ref was in a very hard place with how it happened