Beyond 5/3/1 - Jim Wendler

[oyaji poi]

I'm running 531 and a lot of times it feels like I would get better gains running something else, but the flexibility of the program, along with a lot of family and career commitments make it a good choice.

Most or all of the numbers achieved on 531 and posted in this thread seem like they would be a good base to start 531 from.

Wouldn't it have been better to do a simple linear progression like Greyskull, SS, or SL and work your way up to an intermediate level and then go in for the long, slow road at more intense weight levels?

 

[fbmmofo]

A lot of people do it here because it is very flexible to work around other elements. Sports or family commitments. I guess there is a part of it that is people doing it because its a current trendy programme on this forum but if you go to power and strength section of bodybuilding.com,they talk a lot about madcow and the cube.

The main 531 programme is low volume but how many people just run in normally. Every thread or log I read people are generally adding in extra. Whether that's big but boring,extra squat days,heavy singles

 

[ironwolf]

I'll just download it for free...there ain't no copyright laws where I live.

 

[Poatan Power]

5/3/1 worked great for me. I think I'll buy the book just for the good read.

 

[Obscure Terror]

Bought it today, am about 30 pages in. There is a lot of information in this book, so I'll split it up and do it in chunks. The first part of the book deals with variations on 5/3/1 and different approaches to it. I'd say it's worth $25. You need to have read 5/3/1 first, and 5/3/1 for powerlifting is useful too but not as essential. This book does NOT lay out the original 5/3/1 programme and the accompanying assistance templates. It's all new.

If the only thing you get from me writing this out, it should be this - there is no 5/3/1 for powerlifting programme any more, not really. Wendler hammers home throughout that "5/3/1" is a set of training principles for 3 sets of an exercise over 3 weeks, just not in so few words. Everything else is just variations on volume and assistance work. That's point 1.

Point 2 that is prevalent is that since writing the original in 2008 it's become apparent to him that people over analyse and overthink their assistance work. He gets a shit ton of questions about assistance and with Beyond 5/3/1 there is basically no excuse for people not knowing how to manipulate volume or assistance into their templates. All the stuff you find on various forums regarding pyramid sets and BBB variations is all here in one place.

Lastly, Jim has obviously been talking to Paul Carter a lot and the concept of an "everyday max" and your training max NOT BEING YOUR MOST RECENT PR is a big deal. You everyday max is something you could go lift on a bad day, in winter, with a cold and DOMS. You then take 85-90% of this as your training max. Then you crush rep PR's on the last sets of the week. This makes the new variations on volume much less intimidating. It makes 5/3/1 much more viable as an alternative to Juggernaut - self regulation is now integral. Basically stuff that most people should have figured out anyway but whatever.

So with that said I'll break it down into sections.

PR set = last 5/3/1 set of the day where you go AMRAP.

1. 6 Week training cycle
You deload after 6 weeks not 4 - run two 5/3/1 cycles back to back. Doesn't everyone do this?

2. 5/3/1 Variations - pyramid
Saw this on Sherdog. Do your work sets, set a rep PR, then reverse down and set another rep PR on your last set(same weight as first work set):
5x65%, 5x75%, 5+x85%, 5x75%, 5+x65%

Similar to Paul Carter's "over warm up" process.

3. 5/3/1 Variations - First Set Last
Name says it all. Do your first set of the work sets for some variation of reps after your PR set. AMRAP, 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps, Rest/Pause, 3-5x3-5 Paused Squats or Benches, or if you're mentally unstable for 5x10 in a BBB setup. Take your pick. All done with your first working set percentage.

Also like Paul Carter's "over warm up".

4. 5/3/1 Dynamic Work
8x3 or 5x5 with 70% after your PR set, unless it's deadlift which is 5x2. Long rests.
You can do the dynamic work first, do a single with 80%, then do your PR set as an alternative.

5. Boring But Big
Variations on BBB. Do the regular 5x10 @ 50%, or go 5x10@65%, 5x8@70%, 5x5@75% as you go through the 3 week cycle on the main lifts(variation on the first set last principle above).

6 week challenge - BBB 5x10 50% weeks 1-2, 60% weeks 3-4, 70% weeks 5-6

5x5 variation - 5x5@80%
OR
5x3@90%
OR
5x1@Training Max

He does a 6 month template where you run each of these in sequence after every deload. Juggernaut principle minus the 8's phase and done after your 5/3/1 sets.

Interestingly he puts 50/20 in there - get 50 reps any way you can, limit yourself to 15-20 mins. This is the "Rule of 50".

6. 5/3/1 and the Fatherland
Do 5/3/1 and German Volume Training. 10x10 after PR set. Simple.

7. 5/3/1 SVR
Mixes all the above into the 5/3/1 for powerlifting template:
Week 1: 3x3 as normal
Week 2: 5x5 pyramid
Week 3: 5/3/1 with singles after PR set

8. 5/3/1 Rule of 10
Get 10 reps on your PR set however you can. Singles, triples, whatever.

9. Joker Sets
You're John Broz. You work up to heavy maxes using that weeks "Rep scheme" after your PR set. So on 5's week you do your PR set, then hit 5 @ 95%, 105%, 115% etc. till you can't do the minimum reps, whether it's 5, 3 or 1 week.

Makes a point of people bitching they'll be too tired to do this after hitting a PR set. He says sack up and stop worrying about overtraining. Having done Juggernaut and trained grappling 4 days a week I tend to agree. You're not afraid of overtraining - you're afraid of WORKING mothafucka!

Final piece he does is supersetting your upperbody, do chins between press etc. Nothing special. Says it can't be done easily for lower body.





That's it for part 1. Will put the rest in later.

 

[LZD]

Thanks for the write-up. Really cool. God, there are so many options now. Good to know for future reference.

 

[Obscure Terror]

That's only a third of it.

 

[LZD]

Just for clarity, on his "5x5", for example, you do "5x5" of the main lift @ 80% after each main lift?

Or is it designed so that you do 5x5 after the 5s week, 5x3 after the 3s, etc?

 

[stile0]

thank you for the review.

 

[Obscure Terror]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer -
Cycle 1 - 5x5 @ 80% on 5's, 3's and 5/3/1 week
Cycle 2 - 5x3 @ 90% on 5's, 3's and 5/3/1 week
Deload
Cycle 3 - 5x1 @ 100% on 5's, 3's and 5/3/1 week

Or you can shorten the progression so it's 5x5 week1, 5x3 week 2, 5x1 week three.
Training max goes up, rinse and repeat. However this isn't really BBB any more it's more of the Joker set principle - whichever week you're on dictates your rep scheme but instead of going to failure you just have a set and rep scheme of 5x5, 5x3 or 5x1 which links to the week you're doing.

BBB is it's own cycle separately from the main 5/3/1 rotation. Make sense?

 

[LZD]

Thank-you. I might give this a go when my gains peter out on regular BBB or when I just can't handle it anymore. Lol.

 

[fbmmofo]

Some interesting changes in that lot. I like the idea of 5x5 after,its something I've been thinking about doing

 

[Obscure Terror]

Part 2

10. Beyond 5/3/1
Completely new training programme. Nothing like 5/3/1 really.

10% 3-5 reps
20% 3-5 reps
30% 3-5 reps
40% 3-5 reps
50% 3-5 reps
60% 3-5 reps
70% 1-3 reps
80% 1-3 reps
90% 1 rep
100% 1 rep or rep PR.

After this you can do Joker sets or 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps at 70-75%. He then goes into how to make a template, ranging from 2 days/week to 7 days week. Not gonna write that shit out, but Keo basically does it.

11. Full Body Training
Same as 5/3/1 version but when you deload your squats instead of going 5x65%, 5x75% and 5x85% you can sub the days out with 70/80/90 for3x3, 75/85/95 for 5/3/1 or singles at 80/90/100.

He does a fairly cool Starr-inspired thing called the Full Body Power Clean variation. No deadlifting, power cleans 2x per week one at 3x5 one at 5/3/1. I don't think 5/3/1 works for power cleans personally. Then you can sub a deadlift day back in if you like - basically it was my template when I ran full body.

However if you do this you do deadlift for 3 deloaded triples not the 5/3/1 setup.

12. Full Body, Full Boring
SHEIKO. Squat, Bench, Deadlift every day. You do 5/3/1 for one of the lifts, the other two lifts are deloaded, 3x5 for Squat/Bench, 3x3 for Deadlift. Simple as hell.

13. Spinal Tap training (volume goes to 11)
No rep maxes. Do your entire cycle of 5/3/1 in one workout:

70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x3, 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1, 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5

Training max goes up weekly. Wendler says that this worked for a few people he coached but their "minds and bodies were ready for this". Looks like they had pharmaceutical vitamins to me.

A Variation of this is that all works sets are triples. Wendler says triples are his sweet spot.

14. 5's Progression
Keep your 5/3/1 percentages the same. Don't do 5/3/1, do 3x5 every day. Beginner's setup. Use Joker sets to ascertain maxes if you like.

He also uses this for his big assistance lifts, replacing the SST template. Siad he had to do it to cut down the reps after his motorcycle accident. You basically do 3x5 for an assistance lift, using vanilla 5/3/1 percentages.

15. Deload variations

"Muscle deload" - Hang cleans, Single leg exercise, DB pressing exercise, Lat exercise, Abs, Low back. Light, 5x10 for most stuff

"High Intensity Deload" - cut your volume back, work up in 10% jumps until you hit a single at your training max. Nothing over 3 reps.

16. 28 Weeks of training
Plugs all the above together to make a 28 week setup as an example.

17. Advanced 5/3/1
It's for advanced lifters, it's not an advanced routine. Based on Prilepin.
Week 1: 5x5 @ 75%
Week 2: 5x3 @ 85%
Week 3: 5x1 @ 95%
Week 4: Optional deload

No rep PR's. New 1RM on week 3 if you feel good. You cna figure your own assistance out.

18. 2 days/week training
Lift heavy 2 days, mobility 2 days, condition 2 days. 1 day off. I like this. No mixing and matching.

He goes into mobility stuff. Basically says do what feels good and then the Agile 8. I say you don't buy a Wendler book for the mobility section.

He splits the strength into 2 six week phases, hypertrophy and strength. Hypertrophy do your 5/3/1 then 5x10 on assistance. Go for opposite lifts assists Bench with Press for example. If your joints hurt, do less volume.

Strength phase do 5/3/1 and Simplest Strength Template or the 5's Progression for assistance.

He then goes over why he chose the exercises he did for the SST. This wasn't in 5/3/1.

Section on lat work - he does it between almost every set of everything, accumulating 150-200 reps per workout.

19. S.S.S - Singles, Speed, Size
2 full body training days per week, for every one you do, you have a full recovery day. He really stresses recovery, and eating.

Speed - box jumps, hurdles etc 15-30 per day
Strength - 5x1 @ 90% or higher of your training max
Size - Hypertrophy or Strength phase from above

All assistance work is prehab.

He then puts this into a 12 week programme. He's been reading Juggernaut.

20. Volume Work - 75/85
Brogramming.
3-10 sets of 3-5 @ 75%.
3-10 sets of 3 @ 85%

A or B workout.



After this it's all supplement stuff, diet and 5/3/1 challenges. Don't need to get into that unless people really want me to?

 

[KidAlchemy]

Shit, right now I'm feeling more and more like I have to buy this book to go more detail. Too much of thingy-things I'm interested in!

But people really do 2 cycles back to back and then deload? I've been following my deloads like a good little boy.

 

[TheeFaulted]

Shit, right now I'm feeling more and more like I have to buy this book to go more detail. Too much of thingy-things I'm interested in!

But people really do 2 cycles back to back and then deload? I've been following my deloads like a good little boy.

I only did the actual prescribed deload once.

 

[MilkManUK]

Thanks for the write up Obscure Terror, interesting.

 

[KidAlchemy]

I only did the actual prescribed deload once.

I hardly either do the prescribed deload. I either don't do the main exercises on that weak or work up to a weight PR. But the idea of actually starting another cycle right after another sounds rough and interesting to me.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Nice write up, OT. I personally like the BBB variation with 5X3. Triples are probably my favorite Rep range.

 

[TheeFaulted]

I hardly either do the prescribed deload. I either don't do the main exercises on that weak or work up to a weight PR. But the idea of actually starting another cycle right after another sounds rough and interesting to me.

I mean I almost always just went straight into the next cycle, but I only lift 2x a week, so there was no need for a deload.

 

[KidAlchemy]

I mean I almost always just went straight into the next cycle, but I only lift 2x a week, so there was no need for a deload.

So you perform 2 main exercises per week if not possible BBB sets aren't accounted for. Like week 1: Squat day and bench day week 2: deadlift day and OHP day?

I was thinking about this:

1. 6 Week training cycle
You deload after 6 weeks not 4 - run two 5/3/1 cycles back to back. Doesn't everyone do this?

To me this sounds like a person does all of his 4 main exercises per week for the 5's, 3's and 531 weeks and after the 531 weeks he jumps right in another 5's week and then 3's and lastly 531 week before deloading for a week then repeating it again.