Better potential success in MMA: prime Riner vs prime Karelin?
- Thread starter Gregoire1
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Judo relies on short energy outbursts and a very specific form of cardio.
MMA is much more demanding in that aspect. He would not be able to obtain his 140kg frame and no one knows if he may adapt especially to the stand up requirements.
As someone who trained some years in Judo I have to say that wrestling sharpens you much more for mma. You have the throws, leg attacks, ground work, you have also excellent clinch work, top control and wrestling is much more cardio heavy. After all wrestling offers a more complete package to go into mma ( I say this as a mainly judo practitioner in my youth).
Riner is very good but to put things a little bit into perspective the playing field at HW in Judo is much more thin and weak compared to wrestling. Because of that there really are no comparable physical challengers for him. Even today Japan is very strong in Judo and they just are smaller men in general.
Nastula showed that its possible to cross over from Judo and have success but you need the ability to take a punch and develop stand up.
Everyone thinks he can do that but only few exceed.
Riner can put his size advantage to excellent results in Judo. That would be much more difficult in MMA and as someone who never got used to being hit I would not see him as more as a promising prospect who would need too much time to adapt to MMA to make it to the top.
Regarding Karelin that would be a whole other topic. Were Riner is very strong Karelin was just out of this world. He trained harder than any other ahtlete and played with world class wrestlers like children. Karelin was 10x better than someone like Brock Lesnar and look how far it got Lesnar.
I dont even see Werdum catching him in a sub because of how otherworldly strong AND technical (dont forget that) Karelin is in wrestling.
The trainer of Barnett (dont know his name) once showed his kind of body submissions by applying pressure on the leg or belly. Someone like Karelin would easily tap out everybody with that or just simple submissions powered through. Picture a Kimura or neck crank from Karelin. Frightening.
Look Bob Sapp vs. Nogueira up. Sapp only had strenght and no techniqe at all. He nearly killed Nog in the ring before gassing. Karelin wouldnt gass and imo after 2years training catch the HW belt and held it as long as he would like.
MMA is much more demanding in that aspect. He would not be able to obtain his 140kg frame and no one knows if he may adapt especially to the stand up requirements.
As someone who trained some years in Judo I have to say that wrestling sharpens you much more for mma. You have the throws, leg attacks, ground work, you have also excellent clinch work, top control and wrestling is much more cardio heavy. After all wrestling offers a more complete package to go into mma ( I say this as a mainly judo practitioner in my youth).
Riner is very good but to put things a little bit into perspective the playing field at HW in Judo is much more thin and weak compared to wrestling. Because of that there really are no comparable physical challengers for him. Even today Japan is very strong in Judo and they just are smaller men in general.
Nastula showed that its possible to cross over from Judo and have success but you need the ability to take a punch and develop stand up.
Everyone thinks he can do that but only few exceed.
Riner can put his size advantage to excellent results in Judo. That would be much more difficult in MMA and as someone who never got used to being hit I would not see him as more as a promising prospect who would need too much time to adapt to MMA to make it to the top.
Regarding Karelin that would be a whole other topic. Were Riner is very strong Karelin was just out of this world. He trained harder than any other ahtlete and played with world class wrestlers like children. Karelin was 10x better than someone like Brock Lesnar and look how far it got Lesnar.
I dont even see Werdum catching him in a sub because of how otherworldly strong AND technical (dont forget that) Karelin is in wrestling.
The trainer of Barnett (dont know his name) once showed his kind of body submissions by applying pressure on the leg or belly. Someone like Karelin would easily tap out everybody with that or just simple submissions powered through. Picture a Kimura or neck crank from Karelin. Frightening.
Look Bob Sapp vs. Nogueira up. Sapp only had strenght and no techniqe at all. He nearly killed Nog in the ring before gassing. Karelin wouldnt gass and imo after 2years training catch the HW belt and held it as long as he would like.
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Give the names? Do you mean judokas genetically have weaker chins or aren't tough or what the fuck? Judokas seem to always be tough in MMA. Yoshida, Nastula, Takimoto, Yoon Dong Sik, Nakamura were all as tough as they come. Then again what happened to Olympic wrestling medalists Karam Gaber, Eldar Kurtanidze, Istvan Majoros, Katsuhiko Nagata? Pure judo takes you much longer than pure wrestling in MMA, it's been proven.
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You get that all in a good judo school. Which might be a little hard to find in the US. Plus you get the subs. Wrestling is no gi, so in that way it translates easier to MMA, whereas judo has advantage on the streets.
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karelin would be hw champnow with only one session of listening the rogan experience.
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He's not boring, the final was an isolated event
Right, people fail to realize that wrestlers other than American collegiate wrestlers generally haven't done so great.
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A freaking wwe guy managed to win the HW strap, Karelin would have made MMA illegal... One of the greatest athletes of all time,no doubt. And lol at bringing up Usada. Not saying he was all natty, but natty enough to not get caught, fucker weighed 6 kg as a newborn, true genetic freak. Whatever he was on it wasn't anything close to what walking pharmacy Brock Lesnar has been on, and Lesnar never pissed hot for AAS.
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People fail to realize very few, if any world class international wrestlers have even bothered with MMA. Karam Gaber apperantly trained for a whole 2 weeks before stepping in against Iron head. Romero hasnt wrestled on the elite level for 15 years and is still a UFC contender. If Makhov comes we'll get to see the first real shw world class wrestler in the UFC
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I truly love these threads of 100% speculation. There is no right or wrong. Just the people that actually give the topic thought and responding in a serious manner. People giving us their mma wisdom. I won't EVER read a post in one of these. And I sure as fuck won't ever post to answer the title question. But have fun kiddies.
1/10.
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Same I could say about Jones and GSP. They just very adaptive and high IQ fighters. Like Riner.
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Karlelin is a nightmare on legs. Riner wouldn't be able throw that big motherfucker.
There were a few more as @14.09
pointed out in #33.
Add Henry Cejudo to the list and it's not just shw.
So far they haven't done much better than Judoka of which relatively few have bothered to cross over also.
