Better potential success in MMA: prime Riner vs prime Karelin?

[Rex Kwon Do]

I truly love these threads of 100% speculation. There is no right or wrong. Just the people that actually give the topic thought and responding in a serious manner. People giving us their mma wisdom. I won't EVER read a post in one of these. And I sure as fuck won't ever post to answer the title question. But have fun kiddies.

1/10.

HITLER GIF TIME!!!!!!

 

[Gorbag]

Teddy Riñer by clock choke;

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

Mother of god...

 

[jx820]

Riner is 6'8" and 310 lbs of functional muscle. I have to think that would go a long way in the octagon. Even against a prime Karelin with his legendary strength, I think I'd favor Riner's comparable skill with a 5" and 30lb advantage.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Right, people fail to realize that wrestlers other than American collegiate wrestlers generally haven't done so great.

There's different kinds of Olympic wrestling . Greco is more similar to judo with no leg attacks allowed and does not translate well to mma

 

[fearoth]

Riner is 6'8" and 310 lbs of functional muscle. I have to think that would go a long way in the octagon. Even against a prime Karelin with his legendary strength, I think I'd favor Riner's comparable skill with a 5" and 30lb advantage.

I don't think people here realize how big Riner is. I don't even think it'd be easy for him to make the 265 lbs limit.

 

[djolegeorgee]

LOL at people saying Karelin wouldn't pass a USADA test but no concerns for Riner, a lean, 300 pound man with fucking abs. They both got around olympic tests, they would get around USADA.

 

[Gorbag]

There's different kinds of Olympic wrestling . Greco is more similar to judo with no leg attacks allowed and does not translate well to mma

Judo have plenty of leg to leg attacks not allowed in greco + submissions not allowed in olympic wrestling at all.

 

[Karelinator]

Judo relies on short energy outbursts and a very specific form of cardio.
MMA is much more demanding in that aspect. He would not be able to obtain his 140kg frame and no one knows if he may adapt especially to the stand up requirements.

As someone who trained some years in Judo I have to say that wrestling sharpens you much more for mma. You have the throws, leg attacks, ground work, you have also excellent clinch work, top control and wrestling is much more cardio heavy. After all wrestling offers a more complete package to go into mma ( I say this as a mainly judo practitioner in my youth).

Riner is very good but to put things a little bit into perspective the playing field at HW in Judo is much more thin and weak compared to wrestling. Because of that there really are no comparable physical challengers for him. Even today Japan is very strong in Judo and they just are smaller men in general.

Nastula showed that its possible to cross over from Judo and have success but you need the ability to take a punch and develop stand up.
Everyone thinks he can do that but only few exceed.

Riner can put his size advantage to excellent results in Judo. That would be much more difficult in MMA and as someone who never got used to being hit I would not see him as more as a promising prospect who would need too much time to adapt to MMA to make it to the top.

Regarding Karelin that would be a whole other topic. Were Riner is very strong Karelin was just out of this world. He trained harder than any other ahtlete and played with world class wrestlers like children. Karelin was 10x better than someone like Brock Lesnar and look how far it got Lesnar.

I dont even see Werdum catching him in a sub because of how otherworldly strong AND technical (dont forget that) Karelin is in wrestling.
The trainer of Barnett (dont know his name) once showed his kind of body submissions by applying pressure on the leg or belly. Someone like Karelin would easily tap out everybody with that or just simple submissions powered through. Picture a Kimura or neck crank from Karelin. Frightening.

Look Bob Sapp vs. Nogueira up. Sapp only had strenght and no techniqe at all. He nearly killed Nog in the ring before gassing. Karelin wouldnt gass and imo after 2years training catch the HW belt and held it as long as he would like.

Great post, though to be fair, we just never can really know.

Plenty of beastly wrestlers, kickboxers etc. haven't really managed to do any beastly things in MMA.

Just different piece of bread, even if theoretically should be all similar.

 

[jx820]

I don't think people here realize how big Riner is. I don't even think it'd be easy for him to make the 265 lbs limit.

Yeah, he's huge. He'd make brock look average.

That 45 lb cut is about 15% of his body weight. The ratio is similar to cutting from 200 to 170. So it's not unheard of, but it's a really hard cut particularly for a guy who's never had to cut.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Riner would be champ with 4 months of UFC X-box traning

*fixed

 

[maddog7]

There's different kinds of Olympic wrestling . Greco is more similar to judo with no leg attacks allowed and does not translate well to mma

Actually it's not like Judo at all. Judo players can still attack the legs with their own legs e.g mule kick throws, reaps, sweeps.
I think that a majority of successful judo throws in mma involve some leg-to-leg action.
On the other hand I've heard people claim that it is best for mma but I think these people may have been thinking of collegiate wrestlers turned Greco like Randy Couture for example

 

[Blackjack]

Right, people fail to realize that wrestlers other than American collegiate wrestlers generally haven't done so great.

That's because of one thing and that is the almost complete disappearance of catch wrestling between the mid 1990s and the start of The UFC. Lou Thesz is a far better candidate for being the best ever if we're playing a game of "what if." Thesz's wrestling style was just as good or better in terms of using submission holds as anybody that has come along since. Danny Hodge would have been great in UFC as well if it existed when he was in is physical prime. Hodge wasn't just a shooter in wrestling with submission skills but also a Golden Gloves boxing champion. Even today there's nobody at light heavyweight who would be competitive with a prime Hodge. The wrestling equivalent of The Heisman Trophy is the Danny Hodge Award for good reason.

 

[riitzni]

There were a few more as @14.09
pointed out in #33.
Add Henry Cejudo to the list and it's not just shw.
So far they haven't done much better than Judoka of which relatively few have bothered to cross over also.

Damn, I forgot about Cejudo getting wrecked inside a round. DJ sent him back to the Olympics where the competition is easier.

 

[aichokyu]

I think karelin is the superior athlete, but riner already has some submission knowledge with judo, so he is more advanced in learning the whole mma skillset necessary

 

[Drake]

Karelin even with only his knowledge of wrestling could have beat almost every guy from ufc in the early years.

/Thread.

Dude was so unbelievably GOATy.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Actually it's not like Judo at all. Judo players can still attack the legs with their own legs e.g mule kick throws, reaps, sweeps.
I think that a majority of successful judo throws in mma involve some leg-to-leg action.
On the other hand I've heard people claim that it is best for mma but I think these people may have been thinking of collegiate wrestlers turned Greco like Randy Couture for example

I know leg to leg is allowed I just missed some punctuation. Greco is more similar to judo than freestyle and greco does not allow leg attack. Greco is pretty much worthless for mma while college folksyle is the best because it has huge focus on top control

 

[Team Sleep]

Two dominant champions: Teddy Riner and Aleksandr Karelin. With seriuos training and preparations, who would do better at HW UFC division?

Karelin would throw anyone on their head in his prime. Not even close IMO.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

What would Riner do, throw people to death? He would lose to a heavy tough wrestler with decent hands like Tim Johnson, guaranteed.

Even one dimensional wrestlers are virtually irrelevant now because it has become increasingly difficult to hold high level opponents down.

 

[Gorbag]

What would Riner do, throw people to death? He would lose to a heavy tough wrestler with decent hands like Tim Johnson, guaranteed.

Even one dimensional wrestlers are virtually irrelevant now because it has become increasingly difficult to hold high level opponents down.

Riner would osoto gari people into a dominant postion and either submit them with armlocks/choke - or just pound the shit out of them. Does Karelin have a well developed osoto gari defence?