Better ground game Judo or BJJ?

[Bubble Boy]

BJJ, I'm a judo black belt, and I was tooled on the ground by a BJJ blue belt.

Really? That's suprising. I'm a judo guy that has rolled with a good amount of bjj guys of all ranks. As a judo green I rarely had troubles with most blue belts, although occasionally one would come along and give me a hard time.

With that said I'd say that bjjers are better on the ground. It should go without saying.

But a judo guy should progress very quickly in bjj training...

I've trained BJJ as a Judoka brown. Although initially tricky to get the "feel" of it (ie; being more comfortable on on your back, not giving your back) - after adapting I find little trouble at all with the whites I've fought - in fact I find the oranges & upwards at my judo club tougher.

 

[Oktavius**]

You a purple in bjj, lol.

 

[QingTian]

go to a top judo dojo is europe or japan and tell them their groundwork sucks.

it's true on average you shuld bet on a bjj guy, considering that's all they do, but take a real judo champion and he'll tool you from top to bottom.

 

[ARIS]

but take a real judo champion and he'll tool you from top to bottom.

Champions should roll with "Champions" bud... if you know what i mean?

 

[GenevaGrappler]

I was impressed with Judo when i saw Yoshida vs Royce.

 

[Resident A-hole]

I train both BJJ & Judo. The ground skill in my BJJ class is much better than my judo school. My BJJ school is hardcore, the judo club is more recreational. I imagine it's different at more hardcore judo clubs. But here is how I see it on daily basis:

My judo class focuses about 80% on standing throws, and they are very good at them. But ground work is nowhere near the level of BJJ. Most BJJ whites I roll with with more than 3 months of experience are better than many judo players I train with with 2+ years experience. Aside from my judo instructor & 1-2 other students, nobody in my judo class even knows proper technique to pass guard, half guard, etc. They make a few flailing attempts, then basically just sit in my guard & attempt collar chokes until I can catch them with something, sweep them, or call a stalemate. Most judo players I train with are really only able to get collar chokes & pins. I rarely see anybody go for an armlock or anything else. In nmy experience, Judo teaches grappling techniques, but rarely uses them, & never drills them enough to be effective. Plus, they rely mainly on pins when they do hit the mat- which is understandable because that is a win in judo. I try to avoid using pins in training, because a pin does not end a fight & is useless when I train BJJ.

 

[Gsoares2***]

go to a top judo dojo is europe or japan and tell them their groundwork sucks.

it's true on average you shuld bet on a bjj guy, considering that's all they do, but take a real judo champion and he'll tool you from top to bottom.

Not a problem.. We had one of the top blackbelts from a team in France come over here to FL. Tampa judo and aikido had him come over to teach all their blackbelts. They pay alot of the top guys from japan and europe to come over here and teach... which is Buku$..
He taught at a judo club for all the other blackbelts and was in his mid 20's. Man he was amazing standing up.. Had the most beutiful Eponseio nagi i had ever seen.. As well as a great firemans carry. Guy was in perfect shape.. and i would never want to get into playing judo with him..

However When it came to the ground he was getting worked by our blue belts that weighed 40lbs less than him. He even admitted it and came back to the class three more times to learn as much as he could. He had intensity and basic knowledge of what to do but there was so much he hadnt seen before. neck cranks, leg locks, omoplatta, guys taking his back and he couldnt get them off.. He had a good kimura.. but he couldnt pass the guard for crap to apply it.. he was tryign to finish people form inside the guard even.
Many times he just sat and smothered people when he would get mount on the good white belts, because he just could not finish them.

Bjj is better on the ground there are no ifs and or buts about it. Judo guys train 90% standup 10%ground.. and Bjj guys are the flipside training 90% ground and 10% standup..

Judo guys have better take downs, bjj guys know what to do when they are taken down.

 

[Gsoares2***]

I was impressed with Judo when i saw Yoshida vs Royce.

Yoshida is one of the best judokas alive.. and Royce is far from that.. I mean he is good dont get me wrong..

But he didnt even finish royce.. Royce didnt tap.. the fight was stopped by the ref..
I am not even a fan of royces at all.. but even i say that was bs..
If the guy didnt tap, and the guy wasnt unconcious.. why you going to stop a fight to a choke?

 

[triso]

Another friggin Judo vs Jiu Jitsu thread?

- BJJ: emphasizes groundwork more.
- Judo: emphasizes throws and takedowns more.

Who is better at throws, and who is better on the ground?

Go ahead, I'll give you a minute.

They are both great for different reasons. If you want to concentrate on groundfighting, train Jiu Jitsu, if you want more throws and takedowns, train Judo.

 

[FistInFace]

I highly doubt a Purple in BJJ would be asking such a subjective and idiotic question.

 

[tudor_bjj]

When I was a white belt and training on my own I schooled a judo BB and national champion in no gi. I don't know what it really means. You figure out...

 

[Deleted member 3729]

Not a problem.. We had one of the top blackbelts from a team in France come over here to FL. Tampa judo and aikido had him come over to teach all their blackbelts. They pay alot of the top guys from japan and europe to come over here and teach... which is Buku$..
He taught at a judo club for all the other blackbelts and was in his mid 20's. Man he was amazing standing up.. Had the most beutiful Eponseio nagi i had ever seen.. As well as a great firemans carry. Guy was in perfect shape.. and i would never want to get into playing judo with him..

However When it came to the ground he was getting worked by our blue belts that weighed 40lbs less than him. He even admitted it and came back to the class three more times to learn as much as he could. He had intensity and basic knowledge of what to do but there was so much he hadnt seen before. neck cranks, leg locks, omoplatta, guys taking his back and he couldnt get them off.. He had a good kimura.. but he couldnt pass the guard for crap to apply it.. he was tryign to finish people form inside the guard even.
Many times he just sat and smothered people when he would get mount on the good white belts, because he just could not finish them.

Bjj is better on the ground there are no ifs and or buts about it. Judo guys train 90% standup 10%ground.. and Bjj guys are the flipside training 90% ground and 10% standup..

Judo guys have better take downs, bjj guys know what to do when they are taken down.

Name?

 

[Goth_Judoka]

Really? That's suprising. I'm a judo guy that has rolled with a good amount of bjj guys of all ranks. As a judo green I rarely had troubles with most blue belts, although occasionally one would come along and give me a hard time.

With that said I'd say that bjjers are better on the ground. It should go without saying.

But a judo guy should progress very quickly in bjj training...

Yes, I could easily take him down. I just had a hard ass time trying to sub him. BTW it was my first time rolling with somone who trains in BJJ. BJJ felt kinda foriegn to me.

 

[Rigger]

As everyone sensible has already said- they are both technically excellent on the ground. However being good takes practise and bjj guys do more newaza and are therefore normally better.

There are some some sublime judoka on the ground. Neil Adams may be a contender for the best armbarer of all time and Fedor, Yoshida and Nastula are three of the best armbarers in MMA today. Once he adapts to nogi I expect Nastula to be THE best at it. However just as a striker can make it in MMA if they just have an excellent sprawl, so judoka can make it near the top if they just have an excellent defenisve turtle since they only have to defend on the ground for a minute at most. Ian Francis for exampel was in the top 3 in the uK for a decade without any offensive ground game. He was and is very difficult to sub though - at least for the first few minutes.


Without wishing to stir up arguments though I really can't believe there are still people questioning the point in pins. This isnt the 1990s anymore and plenty of bjjs have been schooled by superior wrestlers. Fedor is blessed with punching power and great subs but his main game is based on pins and top down control. Years on the judo and sambo mats winning by takedown and pin is what have made Fedor the force he is.

 

[tudor_bjj]

How will a judoka nullify a cross, butterfly, x, rubber etc. guard if they never play them in training?

 

[Zankou]

For what it's worth, I've rolled with a couple judo black belts, and would place them at about the level of high BJJ blue belts on the ground ... good, but definitely not as good as the BJJ purples I've rolled with. Much better with pins than with subs or sweeps; a tendency to just sort of work for a hard pin rather than finish the other guy.

As far as the top practitioners of the sport, I think its totally different at those levels -- guys like Yoshida/Jacare etc. are not "normal" judo or bjj practitioners, and they have freakishly high and well rounded skills. The more meaningful inquiry is how good normal guys will get after the same time commitment.

 

[Deleted member 3729]

How will a judoka nullify a cross, butterfly, x, rubber etc. guard if they never play them in training?

What makes you think they don't?

I used a rubber guard at judo a few hours ago.

 

[judogido]

How will a judoka nullify a cross, butterfly, x, rubber etc. guard if they never play them in training?

The basic principles of the ground game are the same. Give a judoka some time to adapt & he will learn to defend & counterattack.

Also depends on the rules you are playing by. A BJJer on the ground in a judo comp does not necessarily have a massive advantage over a judoka who knows his stuff. I mean, there's no point in patiently awaiting the opportunity to escape/counterattack when pinned if a pin ends the match.

 

[JujiGatami]

it all comes down to the person and there school..BJJ and Judo are so similar..just because i take judo doesn't mean 'therefore a judoka..i am going to win..' or vice versa with BJJ..its the person..and the school....anyhow...from my personal experience from grappling with bjj guys(the ONES i sparred anyway)..there stand up wasnt very good, they didnt have great control and i got out of alot of positions on the ground, they werent very rough. on the positive note..they all seemed to have wicked strong legs..im guessing from constantly working the gaurd..and they were pretty friggin flexible..also had good sub combinations and always bugged me with a choke..i got tapped a couple times..but i tapped them aswell.

Judo's ground game kind of slowed down in the early 90's due to competiton..the refs dont let you fight long on the ground..if your not really making progress in there eyes, even though you KNOW you are..they will stand you up..that is part of the reason some clubs dont practice ground fighting so much..so to improve judo, they should bring back more ground fighting

and BJJ..i think they need to definitly improve there stand up fighting and maybe some control/positioning on the ground..

eventually im going to study bjj specifcally to get a good gaurd and learn my leg subs...

theres my 2 cents.

 

[laurent1234]

Judo or BJJ in your respective country is as good as the average level of your country instructors. USA judo instructors are not world level, whereas proximity to Brazil makes USA BJJ instructors world level.
In France, Judo teachers are good, BJJ teachers too rare.

Also I would like to add what other said before: you can not compare Judo and BJJ ranking. In BJJ black belt 1st dan is the ultimate goal, and you can start teaching. In Judo black belt is no big deal, and most Judo teachers in countries like Korea, japan, france are not 1st dan black belt. They often wait 3rd dan to teach adult classes.

the "I am a black belt and I was tooled on the ground by a BJJ blue belt " does not say much. A match in Judo or in BJJ starts standing, so when you want to compare your level do it starting on your feet.