Better ground game Judo or BJJ?

I'm tellin' ya', the rules and point system make all the difference.
I contend that a bjjer and a judoka could both confidently feel like they have "won" a grappling session against one another if they're only playing by their art's respective rules (in their own minds eye).

i.e., the bjj guy passes guard and the judoka immediately rolls to turtle. The bjj guy gets his back, but after a bit they're back to just rolling. The bjj guy is thinking "man this guy sucks" cause in BJJ he just racked up some points. The judoka is thinking that no "points" or advantage has been gained, because in judo rules it hasen't.

Then the judoka manages to get the bjjer in side mount now. The bjj guy kinda relaxes and defends against the full mount. The judo guy settles into his pin and in his head counts to 25. In the judoka's mind, he's just "won" the match. The bjj dude is wondering when the judoka is going to "do" something.

You can imagine the same mindset in a wrestling vs judo or bjj roll about also. It's possible for both guys to think they're dominating the other. And in fact, in they're respective styles, they would be.
 
Bubble Boy said:
The bjj guy is thinking "man this guy sucks" cause in BJJ he just racked up some points. The judoka is thinking that no "points" or advantage has been gained, because in judo rules it hasen't.
Not entirely true.

If someone turtles in BJJ, you don't get points for getting behind them. You only get points if you successfully get both hooks in. And if you do that, it's no longer the turtle position - it's rear mount.
 
Bubble Boy said:
I'm tellin' ya', the rules and point system make all the difference.
I contend that a bjjer and a judoka could both confidently feel like they have "won" a grappling session against one another if they're only playing by their art's respective rules (in their own minds eye).

i.e., the bjj guy passes guard and the judoka immediately rolls to turtle. The bjj guy gets his back, but after a bit they're back to just rolling. The bjj guy is thinking "man this guy sucks" cause in BJJ he just racked up some points. The judoka is thinking that no "points" or advantage has been gained, because in judo rules it hasen't.

Then the judoka manages to get the bjjer in side mount now. The bjj guy kinda relaxes and defends against the full mount. The judo guy settles into his pin and in his head counts to 25. In the judoka's mind, he's just "won" the match. The bjj dude is wondering when the judoka is going to "do" something.

You can imagine the same mindset in a wrestling vs judo or bjj roll about also. It's possible for both guys to think they're dominating the other. And in fact, in they're respective styles, they would be.
Its basicly not true because judokas dont get outscored usually they get submitted.
Ive met just few judokas who could defend the hooks and the neck, most of the time i could RNC them. Same with the pins again just 2 guys could pin me down both outweight me alot and do for 10+ years. All the others got backmounted.
 
BJJ has better ground game, plain and simple. In Judo you do throws and some ground game, but the rules in Judo favors throwing so much, that the ground part is maybe 20 % of the game.
 
On the back mount issue: that's what I meant by getting the back - hooks in. Certainly a dominate position, no doubt, but still no points in the judoka's mind, yet. Is he in grave danger...oh yeah, but if he somehow manages to squirrel out of it, and gets that side mount on the bjj guy for 25 seconds, in his paradigm of grappling, he's won, or at least pulled even.

I'm just theorizing here guys, based on my experiences.

I know for a fact that wrestlers with very little to no experience with other styles of grappling think about what defines a dominate position much differently than I do as a judoka.
When a wrestler gets his single leg on judoka, but the judoka lands with his stomach down, there would be no points in judo. The wrestler just got takedown points in his wrestlers frame of reference. But the judo guy just turns and gets the guard, ready to work submissions. The wrestler stacks and has the judo guy's shoulders pinned squarely to the mat: Wrestler thinks: "Judo sucks." Judoka thinks: "Man this is going to be an easy armbar."

Again, I think it's something worth considering, that our respective styles rules and point systems sometimes bias us to only see dominance from our narrow frame of reference.

That said, you're right...a submission is a submission is a submission.
 
Ok, I'm going to give away important data to all the bjjers who may not already know this. It's the biggest weakness a judoka has when you roll against them. You wanna' tap a judo guy?

Leg locks.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Ok, I'm going to give away important data to all the bjjers who may not already know this. It's the biggest weakness a judoka has when you roll against them. You wanna' tap a judo guy?

Leg locks.
Wow, you're so smart...
 
tudor_bjj said:
Wow, you're so smart...

Almost baited me into a flame war on that one, but I ain't going there; it's just another bjj vs judo thread...
 
Cojofl said:
You're just jealous you didn't think of it.
Wow, I'm so stupid!

Bubble Boy said:
Almost baited me into a flame war on that one, but I ain't going there;
Now, you're proving you are really smart!
 
tudor_bjj said:
Wow, I'm so stupid!


Now, you're proving you are really smart!

Funny that you are the person to start the flame war in this thread. I was expecting someone with a white belt.
 
Soulfly said:
Funny that you are the person to start the flame war in this thread. I was expecting someone with a white belt.
Funny that you are the person with no sense of humour in this thread. I was expecting someone with a higher belt to think a BJJ vs. Judo thread can be anything else then funny.
 
I am self taught on the ground, i have some friends that i roll with and we have 6 Kid Peligro BJJ books (20 bucks each on amazon.com) We have been backyard grappling for a few years. When i joined Judo i had them all beat in groundgame and i wonder where id size up in BJJ. Ive beaten Judo BBs and ive never been to a BJJ school, If this has been the case for anyone else drop me a PM and let me know what to expect ... thanks for the help!
 
Everyone should read "Kodokan Judo" by Jigoro Kano as a requirement for posting in these threads. Judo is a way of learning jujutsu. BJJ is another way of learing jiu-jitsu. I disagree with some things in BJJ, and I disagree with other things in judo. Which path works best depends on the individual. Neither is better than the other. Grapplers should learn both (and more) and keep what works most efficiently for them. Every grappler should form their own style of grappling.
 
Back
Top