Best striker, Best BJJ guy of all time?

[Sirwastealot]

You are not on Anderson's level if you get KO'd by Kevin Randleman.

Sometimes you get caught, especially in striking. Fedor was almost KO'd by Fujita, GSP by serra. That should not devalue everything else that crocop did, fighters were literally afraid of him at one point.

Having said that i would still put silva ahead, but only slightly.

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

Sometimes you get caught, especially in striking. Fedor was almost KO'd by Fujita, GSP by serra. That should not devalue everything else that crocop did, fighters were literally afraid of him at one point.

Having said that i would still put silva ahead, but only slightly.

Fedor wasn't a stand up specialist and neither is GSP, Cro Cop was and he was beaten at his own game by a wrestler with mediocre stand up.

 

[MiroHa]

You are not on Anderson's level if you get KO'd by Kevin Randleman.

Please... That was one in a million shot and one of the biggest upsets of all time along with Fedor vs. Werdum and GSP vs. Serra 1. It was pretty beautiful how Randleman faked a TD and uncorked that huge left hook landing it right on the button. There are like three people in MMA who could've taken that shot without going down.

 

[Bolshevik***]

zuffa zombies out in full force (what's new?)

Floored? Or stumbling back hurt for a second and then recovering and taking 3-4 flush shots without flinching? Cro Cop was left unconscious on the mat. Not even comparable.

gee...i wonder who hits harder: randleman or pillowfist sonnen?

silva is a great striker; no doubt about it, but the gap between his striking ability and his opponents' is so wide, it makes people believe he's also that much better than great strikers he's never faced. so, outstriking guys like maia, okami, leites, etc. is good, but he's never faced shogun, machida, liddel, rampage, jones, etc. if anyone honestly thinks he could play games with them the way he does his usual opponents, they need to relax their grip on his testicles.

people putting mir over nogueira: how far past his prime is minotauro? that's like saying bigfoot should be ranked higher than fedor based on their fight in the twilight of emelianenko's career. i'm not saying mir isn't a great submission artist, he is, but i wouldn't say he's superior to nogueira because of that one result.

 

[PUO3]

Fedor wasn't a stand up specialist and neither is GSP, Cro Cop was and he was beaten at his own game by a wrestler with mediocre stand up.

anderson got outstruck by chael on the feet and had to beat him on the ground.

hows that?

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

zuffa zombies out in full force (what's new?)



gee...i wonder who hits harder: randleman or pillowfist sonnen?

silva is a great striker; no doubt about it, but the gap between his striking ability and his opponents' is so wide, it makes people believe he's also that much better than great strikers he's never faced. so, outstriking guys like maia, okami, leites, etc. is good, but he's never faced shogun, machida, liddel, rampage, jones, etc. if anyone honestly thinks he could play games with them the way he does his usual opponents, they need to relax their grip on his testicles.

people putting mir over nogueira: how far past his prime is minotauro? that's like saying bigfoot should be ranked higher than fedor based on their fight in the twilight of emelianenko's career. i'm not saying mir isn't a great submission artist, he is, but i wouldn't say he's superior to nogueira because of that one result.

Wow, no way a heavyweight hits harder than a middleweight? Astounding! The more you know, right? Stop making excuses for Cro Cop.
Since when was Shogun a magnificent striker? Machida? He got dropped by Jones and KTFO by Shogun yet he is on Anderson's level or better? Rampage? Jesus man, you are reaching. Anderson clowned Forrest with ease, while Rampage and Shogun couldn't even put him away. Ask anyone with an interest in striking and they will tell you themselves that Anderson's striking is multiple levels above everyone elses. You just can't admit it because Anderson obviously fucked your girlfriend or something.

Mir is 2-0 against Nogueira. As much as I love Nog, it seems Mir has his number. You are just a butthurt PRIDE fan that can't deal with change :icon_chee

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

anderson got outstruck by chael on the feet and had to beat him on the ground.

hows that?

Outstruck on the feet? Sonnen tried to get that fight to the ground as quick as possible :redface: and Anderson still won that fight nonetheless.

Anderson defeated him via TKO in their rematch, while Cro Cop defeated Randleman by submission in their rematch so... your logic is working against you buddy :redface:

 

[Manila**]

Mir has better BJJ than Nog. He showed it in the second fight. Just saying

Yeah, and Jason Miller subbed a shot Kazushi Sakuraba, so Miller > Saku on the ground, eh? Idiot.

 

[PUO3]

Outstruck on the feet? Sonnen tried to get that fight to the ground as quick as possible :redface: and Anderson still won that fight nonetheless.

Anderson defeated him via TKO in their rematch, while Cro Cop defeated Randleman by submission in their rematch so... your logic is working against you buddy :redface:

anderson beat him with strikes on the ground sport.

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

anderson beat him with strikes on the ground sport.

He dropped him first with strikes first.

 

[Manila**]

brock would have pounded nogs head through the mat. maybe go watch the gnp little fedor gave him.

Nog subbed Sapp, who was substantially bigger, heavier and busier than Brock. Fail.

 

[B-Man]

Anderson for striking and Aoki for BJJ imo.

 

[Nylonbaby]

Anderson
Maia or Werdum

I can't support the BJJ answer being a fighter who has lost an MMA fight by submission.

 

[Manila**]

About the "agenda" I obviously have:

Nog is one of my favorite fighters and I never liked Mir. But rooting for someone and actually thinking he is the GOAT are totally different things.

I think Mir is better than Nog in BJJ. Both have good submitted top guys, but I see the pure BJJ hability playing a bigger role in Mir's game than in Nog's, who was a more complete fighter, with a chin and heart from another planet and good overall takedowns.

Also, the fact that nog got caught is an evidence of the outstanding BJJ from Mir, who has done a lot in this area. Leben outstriking Wand is just one fight, and even if you could consider this an evidence, it is not enough to prove anything. Your point doesn't make any sense.

You are either joking, or are very stupid. I can't work out which.

Wand-Leben was one fight. Leben knocked out a borderline shot Wand.

Mir-Nog II was one fight. Mir subbed a borderline shot Nog.

Wand-Leben was one fight which does not prove that Leben was a better striker than a prime Wand, obviously.

Mir-Nog II was one fight which does not prove that Mir was a better BJJ practitioner than a prime Nog, obviously.

Do you seriously not see how insane the below statement is???

Leben outstriking Wand is just one fight

Mir only subbed Nog once. A borderline shot Nog. Your point makes no sense whatsoever.

Also, FYI, Kazushi Sakuraba has been subbed by Jason Miller. Does that one incident, when Saku was far removed from his prime, automatically mean that Miller was a superior ground fighter to prime Saku? It should do, going by your silly Mir/Nog logic.

 

[PUO3]

Nog subbed Sapp, who was substantially bigger, heavier and busier than Brock. Fail.

yes because sapp is certainly as skilled on the mat as brock lesnar.

that is the dumbest thing ive ever read on sherdog. congrats on the accomplishment.

 

[Ironheart]

Striking is Anderson IMO, with honorable mentions to Overeem and Mirko.
BJJ I can't decide between Maia or Werdum, with a handful of guys deserving honorable mentions (notably Aoki, Mir, and Nog)

 

[ovbious]

You are either joking, or are very stupid. I can't work out which.

Wand-Leben was one fight. Leben knocked out a borderline shot Wand.

Mir-Nog II was one fight. Mir subbed a borderline shot Nog.

Wand-Leben was one fight which does not prove that Leben was a better striker than a prime Wand, obviously.

Mir-Nog II was one fight which does not prove that Mir was a better BJJ practitioner than a prime Nog, obviously.

Do you seriously not see how insane the below statement is???



Mir only subbed Nog once. A borderline shot Nog. Your point makes no sense whatsoever.

Also, FYI, Kazushi Sakuraba has been subbed by Jason Miller. Does that one incident, when Saku was far removed from his prime, automatically mean that Miller was a superior ground fighter to prime Saku? It should do, going by your silly Mir/Nog logic.

Do you happen to know the difference between one evidence and something that def. proves something?

Mir has always been a top BJJ, and the fact that he broke Nog's arm could be used as an evidence of him being better.

Leben over Wandy is also an evidence, but there is no context for saying Leben is a top striker. There are no other evidences.

However, there are tons of other evidences of Mir being a top BJJ guy in MMA.

I'm a nog fan and think he is maybe the HW #2 GOAT. But despite the fact he is a top grapler in MMA, Mir was the best in plain BJJ MMA. Nog had two chances to prove other wise. In the 1st he was still in good shape (had never been KOed before) and in the second he couldn't sub a worn down and zombie Mir.

 

[ovbious]

Nog subbed Sapp, who was substantially bigger, heavier and busier than Brock. Fail.

I bet Brock with his looooong resume had had more good performances over ranked guys than Sapp, which is mostly remembered for losing to Nog.

 

[ovbious]

Tldr version:

What eles does Leben have to show he could be consider a better striker than Wandy?

Mir has a lot of other great submissions to show. ALSO, he has one over Nog, which can be added to those other evidences.

 

[jptmma]

Jake Shields...

His BJJ is so good that he puts viewers to sleep...