Best GnP ever: Jones, Cain, Khabib, Fedor?

[Baal]

1. Cain
2. Fedor
3. Jones

 

[snowbro]

There are a lot more examples but I can't be arsed to find gifs now.

That was crazy to watch live on ppv. Especially after Arona defeated Wanderlei earlier in the night. I was going nuts!

 

[Mind Mine]

Lol at calaiming hurt feelings when your pitching fits over people giving Khabib a compliment

As I keep saying, finishes are nice but it is a very surface level criteria. The finishes arent what make the GnP good. That goes for everyone mentioned in this thread. Fedor, Jon and Khabib all have unique approaches to GnP. Even when they don't finish it still leaves an impression

Edit: Dagestan’s Got Talent is funny tho

Yeah he leaves an impression absolutely and has great gnp absolutely. Now whatever logic you are using to imply he is better at using gnp than a guy notorious for breaking faces and making opponents tap long after the beating stopped is just laughable. He simply has 2 finishes by gnp and they aren’t as devastating or damaging or anything as Jones top 2 . It really is that simple

 

[HHJ]

That was crazy to watch live on ppv. Especially after Arona defeated Wanderlei earlier in the night. I was going nuts!

The rematch GNP was worse. There is footage of Alistair havign to be helped back and go into an ambulance

 

[The Schmoop]

Khabib easily at #1.

Cain probably #2.

honorable mention, Prime Tito did work inside of folks guard.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Yeah he leaves an impression absolutely and has great gnp absolutely. Now whatever logic you are using to imply he is better at using gnp than a guy notorious for breaking faces and making opponents tap long after the beating stopped is just laughable. He simply has 2 finishes by gnp and they aren’t as devastating or damaging or anything as Jones top 2 . It really is that simple

Breaking face. Singular. You're using a single instances as your only point. That's my problem with this argument. Yes, he did that and it was super impressive. It is also just 1 fight. He has other impressive displays but people are taking that one instance and applying it to every fight. That's just silly.

Going across all their fights, their styles, and how they use it to finish I say Khabib. As I've said before, the fact that his GnP can be used to pin, knock out, set up subs, and advance positions is very impressive to me. It also is something that no one else does. Being able to force opponents into those dilemmas is his style.

Now, the argument for Jon is his unique use of his reach for his elbows. It's definitely something only he could have done against his opponents.

I've mentioned a few times how Fedor had an unreal ability to generate speed and force in his GNP even in the guard.

They're all peaks of their class. They're all very close to each other. I just personally find what Khabib does more impressive because it takes a lot more skill and nuance to pull off.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Khabib easily at #1.

Cain probably #2.

honorable mention, Prime Tito did work inside of folks guard.

Tito is fair. Why Cain over Jon and Fedor? It's valid, I just wonder what tips him over for you

 

[No Mas]

Fedor ainec in terms of power. Whoever says otherwise obv never actually watched any of his fights live and the only glimpse they have of it is pixelated yt vids they skimmed through and post-Pride Fedor.

The problem with Fedor is he stopped using his GnP in like 2008, and never had the best control like Jones/Khabib/GSP/Cain did. Some of it being because he was usually much smaller, but also because his positional awareness was not as strong as those other guys' and he took risks to land shots. So although those guys are better at the overall package of GnP, none had the pop that Fedor generated.

Rockhold is another guy who's probably up there in terms of most brutal GnP but he always had trash TDs so we didn't see much of it either.

Kerr is up there too if you count headbutts.

 

[Mind Mine]

Breaking face. Singular. You're using a single instances as your only point. That's my problem with this argument. Yes, he did that and it was super impressive. It is also just 1 fight. He has other impressive displays but people are taking that one instance and applying it to every fight. That's just silly.

Going across all their fights, their styles, and how they use it to finish I say Khabib. As I've said before, the fact that his GnP can be used to pin, knock out, set up subs, and advance positions is very impressive to me. It also is something that no one else does. Being able to force opponents into those dilemmas is his style.

Now, the argument for Jon is his unique use of his reach for his elbows. It's definitely something only he could have done against his opponents.

I've mentioned a few times how Fedor had an unreal ability to generate speed and force in his GNP even in the guard.

They're all peaks of their class. They're all very close to each other. I just personally find what Khabib does more impressive because it takes a lot more skill and nuance to pull off.

So let me see here the top two moments of Jones gnp resulted in a rearranged face as well as the time a legend was battered so badly he tapped 5 seconds after Jones finished beating his ass. Khabib has literally two gnp finishes in his UFC career. There is no way possible Khabib has better gnp lol

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

So let me see here the top two moments of Jones gnp resulted in a rearranged face as well as the time a legend was battered so badly he tapped 5 seconds after Jones finished beating his ass. Khabib has literally two gnp finishes in his UFC career. There is no way possible Khabib has better gnp lol

Dog if you're not gonna actually read and respond to the points I'm making then why reply? I'm not gonna engage in whatever you're trying to accomplish if you have no interest in an actual discussion.

 

[Barteh]

Best GNP I've ever seen.

 

[OmegaRugal]

I don't really catch your drift. In terms of who uses GnP to secure finishes the most, Khabib is up there. He'll use it to create subs more than knock outs but that's the primary tool. I can only remember 1 or 2 of his subs that he set up with no gnp.

There's a lot more to what makes someone's technique good other than a finish imo. I feel like that's very surface value. But I'm also a grappling fanatic and love the nitty-gritty details

Who doesnt Khabib take down?

He takes down Everyone.

He had an all time great ground control.

And he finished only 2/3 of his fights.

His GNP is great.
His GNP however is not in the discussion for all time best GNP when his finishing rate isnt all time high despite him having an all time high rate of takedowns and ground control.

If its all time levels of effective ... he should have mpre finishes since he takes everyone down.

Its effective. But its not all great GNP.

You can survive with Khabib on top of you for multiple rounds.

 

[BowserJr]

Fedor and it's not even close even without elbows

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Who doesnt Khabib take down?

He takes down Everyone.

He had an all time great ground control.

And he finished only 2/3 of his fights.

His GNP is great.
His GNP however is not in the discussion for all time best GNP when his finishing rate isnt all time high despite him having an all time high rate of takedowns and ground control.

If its all time levels of effective ... he should have mpre finishes since he takes everyone down.

Its effective. But its not all great GNP.

You can survive with Khabib on top of you for multiple rounds.

Thank you for a detailed and thought out response. If I'm understanding this correctly, your only determination for effectiveness here is if it results in a finish? Correct me if I'm reading that wrong.

finishes are important and I would definitely argue that Khabib's GnP has directly led him to at least 17 of his 19 finishes. That alone is very impressive. I personally can't think of anyone who's done the same. HOWEVER, like you pointed out, in all but 2 fights he layer down lots of GnP but he couldn't always secure a finish. My opinion is as follows:

Finishing is a single surface level criteria and shouldn't be the only thing that matters

Everyone mentioned in this threads has multiple fights where their opponents have survived multiple rounds of GnP. Even when putting up numbers in high volume.

Khabib secured nearly every single victory of his career with GnP (cannot be said for the rest)

Khabib has a more technical understanding of GnP than his peers

There is a difference between BEST and most dangerous (same way I'd say the best fighters aren't always the most consistent finishers)

Jon, Fedor, and Cain are all prime examples of incredibly destructive GnP with carrying degrees of technicality.


Basically, I disagree with the "did he finish them tho?" argument. I think there is a lot that goes into why fighters are good. More finishes doesn't make you the best. Jiri has 25 KOs in 33 fights. I doubt most on here would call him one of the best strikers. That's where my head is at

 

[Migdagen]

Once Anderson Silva get on top of you, its over. Did not happened often, but the rare time he got in that position, if finished it with 2-3 strikes

 

[Georges Hefner]

Once Anderson Silva get on top of you, its over. Did not happened often, but the rare time he got in that position, if finished it with 2-3 strikes

seriously, his precision was unreal

 

[OmegaRugal]

Thank you for a detailed and thought out response. If I'm understanding this correctly, your only determination for effectiveness here is if it results in a finish? Correct me if I'm reading that wrong.

finishes are important and I would definitely argue that Khabib's GnP has directly led him to at least 17 of his 19 finishes. That alone is very impressive. I personally can't think of anyone who's done the same. HOWEVER, like you pointed out, in all but 2 fights he layer down lots of GnP but he couldn't always secure a finish. My opinion is as follows:

Finishing is a single surface level criteria and shouldn't be the only thing that matters

Everyone mentioned in this threads has multiple fights where their opponents have survived multiple rounds of GnP. Even when putting up numbers in high volume.

Khabib secured nearly every single victory of his career with GnP (cannot be said for the rest)

Khabib has a more technical understanding of GnP than his peers

There is a difference between BEST and most dangerous (same way I'd say the best fighters aren't always the most consistent finishers)

Jon, Fedor, and Cain are all prime examples of incredibly destructive GnP with carrying degrees of technicality.


Basically, I disagree with the "did he finish them tho?" argument. I think there is a lot that goes into why fighters are good. More finishes doesn't make you the best. Jiri has 25 KOs in 33 fights. I doubt most on here would call him one of the best strikers. That's where my head is at

I think you are confusing his insane ground control for his gnp.

Give Khabib Jon Jones' gnp ... he would have finished over 90% of his fights.

Only reason Jones doesnt have 90% finish rate is because he many times doesnt even go for takedowns or has been stopped from getting a takedown unlike Khabib.

But once you are down against Jones, you are doomed.

Being under Khabib will be exhausting but you will most likely survive.

Khabibs GNP is NOT an all time great.
His control is.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Thank you for a detailed and thought out response. If I'm understanding this correctly, your only determination for effectiveness here is if it results in a finish? Correct me if I'm reading that wrong.

finishes are important and I would definitely argue that Khabib's GnP has directly led him to at least 17 of his 19 finishes. That alone is very impressive. I personally can't think of anyone who's done the same. HOWEVER, like you pointed out, in all but 2 fights he layer down lots of GnP but he couldn't always secure a finish. My opinion is as follows:

Finishing is a single surface level criteria and shouldn't be the only thing that matters

Everyone mentioned in this threads has multiple fights where their opponents have survived multiple rounds of GnP. Even when putting up numbers in high volume.

Khabib secured nearly every single victory of his career with GnP (cannot be said for the rest)

Khabib has a more technical understanding of GnP than his peers

There is a difference between BEST and most dangerous (same way I'd say the best fighters aren't always the most consistent finishers)

Jon, Fedor, and Cain are all prime examples of incredibly destructive GnP with carrying degrees of technicality.


Basically, I disagree with the "did he finish them tho?" argument. I think there is a lot that goes into why fighters are good. More finishes doesn't make you the best. Jiri has 25 KOs in 33 fights. I doubt most on here would call him one of the best strikers. That's where my head is at

Ill add that i dont think comparing striking and grappling is a fair comparison.

Striking is with everyone in a neutral stance ....both standing.

On the ground for GNP ... we are talking about someone on top vs someone on the bottom.

Advantagous position vs defensive position for the most part.

Khabib with his insane takedown rate per match and insane top control was in an advantagous position so often and yet ... didnt manage to finish his opponents enough times despite those facts.

That is why for me its hard to believe that his GNP was an all time top 3 or 10 in the game.

I know Khabib can take me down and control me but if i had to start a match on the bottom, i rather be facing Khabibs top game than Jones or even Anderson Silvas for example. Their GNP is just far more effective at landing devasting blows to TKO you or open you up for a sub.

 

[-Sideways-]

Instantly ruled out Khabib... Probably Fedor. In his prime, his GnP was scary regardless of who he was fighting.

 

[YesForGayJesus]

Luke Rockhold imo. He brutalized multiple BJJ blackbelts. I don't recall anyone ever having a good time with him on top. His problem was his wrestling wasn't good enough to consistently get the fight to the ground. A lot of the time he ended up on top because his opponent made a mistake.

Rockhold on top was a death sentence at one point.