Best examples of a fighter nullifying great footwork

[Human Bass]

Don't be a nonce. Even within MMA Cruz's footwork isn't great at all, it's random nonsense.

They are both combat sports, and it's easier to list boxers as they tend to have much better footwork. And much better defence.

How good is their defence against leg kicks and takedowns? Lol

 

[tgo007]

Cruz's fighting style in theory shouldn't work as well in today's mma because of the scoring system.

A lot of Cruz's technique breaks the rules to sacrifice power in favor of speed, activity.

You need a lot of cardio. But if judges are scoring correctly, his light strikes shouldn't count for much.

I say in theory tho because I don't really have faith in judges to score damage 1st always.

 

[Human Bass]

I love MMA and I've been watching it since UFC 1. People who think Cruz has great footwork don't really know what great footwork is, and it more goes to show how low the bar is in MMA. It's still an evolving sport, and this era is more polished than ever, but it's got a long way to go before getting close to boxing level striking. Especially footwork and defence, the differences in those areas are huge.

Boxers clinch all the time, and clinching has very different outcomes in mma. The meta is absurdly different. Mayweather wouldnt be able to do 20% in mma of what he does in boxing.

 

[froggyluv]

Nah what's funny and ironic is that it's basically a homeless man's impression of Pep, and you have morons in this thread saying stuff like "bUt bOXInG fOOtWoRk dOeSn'T wOrK iN UFC!" while praising Cruz's supposedly incredible footwork.

I wouldnt say it "random nonsense" - I mean he knew where his body weight was shifted so he react of that impulse in a seemingly instinctive style. Kind of like feints with his feat keeping opponents guessing where his shifts are at. i remember seeing a guy break down Cruzs dart strategies and it was anything but random. Im not even the hugest Cruz fan and alot of his looping hooks were Not good but it wasnt just 'meaningless that anyone could do either'

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Cruz's fighting style in theory shouldn't work as well in today's mma because of the scoring system.

A lot of Cruz's technique breaks the rules to sacrifice power in favor of speed, activity.

You need a lot of cardio. But if judges are scoring correctly, his light strikes shouldn't count for much.

I say in theory tho because I don't really have faith in judges to score damage 1st always.

I think it has more power than people realize. It wasn’t ultra powerful but I remember Cruz did damage to a lot of his opponents, I liked his low kicks before he has knee injuries

 

[FlowchartRog]

I wouldnt say it "random nonsense" - I mean he knew where his body weight was shifted so he react of that impulse in a seemingly instinctive style. Kind of like feints with his feat keeping opponents guessing where his shifts are at. i remember seeing a guy break down Cruzs dart strategies and it was anything but random. Im not even the hugest Cruz fan and alot of his looping hooks were Not good but it wasnt just 'meaningless that anyone could do either'

To be fair I'm slightly exaggerating for comic effect, Cruz isn't a scrub. But honestly a lot of it was random nonsense, and easily intercepted and countered by good boxing footwork as peak Cody showed.

Even though Cruz was an elite bantamweight, I just think his footwork is one of the most overrated things in MMA history. Seems to be one of those things that gets parroted a lot by people who don't really know what good footwork is. Because it befuddled some fighters who didn't have the boxing skills to counter it.

It's hard to ignore the first guy he fought who came from ana amateur boxing background and had very solid footwork himself, made Cruz's footwork look fucking terrible.

Speaking of looping hooks, yeah you're not kidding. His punching technique, it's like his swinging a handbag

Here's Dom's exemplary footwork in action - squared up, feet splayed apart, and wide open for a counter

 

[tgo007]

100% agree with the leg kicks. And just to be clear, if cruz landed like 100 strikes over 5 rounds. I'd say 40 are still power shots.

I don't mean to say it was all fluff strikes.

But another thing is why doesn't ducking and head movement work in muay thai.

Head kicks, knees and elbows. I think back in wec and early ufc. Everyone sucked at them.

Joey B and Dj way undersized compared to Cruz.

Even if we transplanted prime Cruz in today's BW division. He's still like top 5. I just don't think he would dominate because everybody is way better at kicks.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Boxers clinch all the time, and clinching has very different outcomes in mma. The meta is absurdly different. Mayweather wouldnt be able to do 20% in mma of what he does in boxing.

We're not talking about clinching, we're talking about footwork. Admittedly yes clinching is very different, one wouldn't translate as well. The best examples of footwork in MMA are boxing based. Including in this very thread, people citing Cruz's infamous footwork being based on Pep.

O'Malley has good boxing footwork, and he's honed it enough that he's not easy to takedown, and not a sitting duck for legkicks.

Classic boxing footwork works way better than most MMA fans are willing to admit.

If you have excellent movement in a boxing ring, you're going to have excellent movement in an MMA cage - you better just work on TDD and checking leg kicks.

 

[FlowchartRog]

100% agree with the leg kicks. And just to be clear, if cruz landed like 100 strikes over 5 rounds. I'd say 40 are still power shots.

I don't mean to say it was all fluff strikes.

But another thing is why doesn't ducking and head movement work in muay thai.

Head kicks, knees and elbows. I think back in wec and early ufc. Everyone sucked at them.

Joey B and Dj way undersized compared to Cruz.

Even if we transplanted prime Cruz in today's BW division. He's still like top 5. I just don't think he would dominate because everybody is way better at kicks.

I agree. Like I said, he has a lot of good attributes. The chin, workrate, stamina, wrestling, size. It's not his footwork that would have success today, it's all the attributes I mentioned.

A big part of his success was size advantage combined with fighting guys who didn't have the boxing and footwork to counter him effectively.

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

View attachment 1045395

Now this is great footwork! ^

 

[jeff7b9]

You need footwork to be in the right place and be in that range he understands so well. Just because it looks simple doesn't mean it's not great footwork.

I think you misunderstood my post.

"Anti footwork" meaning his style is the cryptonite to a footwork based fighter. (The thread concept being discussed)

His approach to striking, while not really fancy or fast footwork (but certainly technically sound and highly intelligent) will negate an opponent who attempts to use workwork against him.

Specific example:

General striking theory would dictate that his opponent should avoid an orthodox powerful striker's cross/overhand by slipping and exiting to Alex's left, yet Alex has a LETHAL left hook which specifically punishes that tactic.


Additionally, his exceptionally long reach means his opponents will remain in his striking range at a distance where they would have already safely exited most opponents danger zone.

 

[jeff7b9]

I can tell you are highly passionate about what constitutes good footwork and that’s just like your opinion man.
Maybe I meant to say was fighters who have quick feet, move a lot, and rely on their movement and feints to fight. If it’s not subtle, efficient footwork like you claimed. Someone like Amir Khan.

As it was said before, some of Willie Peps footwork and patterns was adapted to mma. Not directly translated.

But I think people with quick feet and movement have great footwork, even if it’s not the most efficient. It’s highly effective for a lot of people’s unorthodox styles.

Quick, active, feet and movement is very hard to deal with, yes it does takes a lot of athleticism and conditioning. I consider it great footwork. You call it what you want.

He has the most title fight wins in BW history and is one of a very very few UFC champs ever to regain his belt and defend successfully in his 2nd title reign.

It was definitely effective. He ruled a very athletic division over a decent time period.

It was also very polarizing, and I think that is reflected in the comments here, with some people imo letting their emotions get the better of them.

In my opinion, he changed the game, and that is worthy of note. He brought a lot of attention to mma footwork and use of angles on entry and exit and demonstrated how to use these things as a form of effective defense.

I think TJ began the evolution by taking elements he picked up while mimicking Dom in TAM camps and then adapting it into his own much more offensive version.

eventually I HOPE we wind up seeing something along the lines of a "Lomachenko of MMA" where someone truly masters how to use footwork defensively (like prime Dom) and offensively, like TJ showed flashes of...

I think the potential is there for something beautiful to come along.

*TJ trained with Lomachenko too, so he had at least some exposure to that style of boxing footwork, but not that insane long term footwork foundation that Lomachenko's dad instilled in Loma and Usyk. Particularly the cross training, the dance, etc

I wouldnt say it "random nonsense" - I mean he knew where his body weight was shifted so he react of that impulse in a seemingly instinctive style. Kind of like feints with his feat keeping opponents guessing where his shifts are at. i remember seeing a guy break down Cruzs dart strategies and it was anything but random. Im not even the hugest Cruz fan and alot of his looping hooks were Not good but it wasnt just 'meaningless that anyone could do either'

Cruz himself said he used approximately 8 segments or patterns, which he then mixed up and combined.

A chess board has 8 squares up by 8 across, and literally millions upon millions of possibilities, so much so that even with computers tracking millions of games all over the world for years, each game reaches a point, often fairly early on, where that exact combination of moves has never been played before in recorded history and a "new territory" is reached.

Point being even within set of just 8, it is easy to quickly attain exponential combinations


So... for arguments sake, even if Cruz was "random" with the way he combined his 8 movements, he is still doing something effective by creating a situation in which there is a level of "chaos" and "unpredictability" where he is moving 3 dimensionally, providing exceptional natural defensive head movement simply by way of a "randomly" moving target in a 3 dimensional plane

AND

He has a natural advantage because within that chaos he created, HE knew where he was going.
even if he only knew it a split second before it happened, that is a split second where he knew where he was going to be and his opponent didn't.

The result of this?

During his prime he was the statistically least hit fighter in BW history.

Of course there were tradeoffs.

1- I maintain he gave up most of whatever power he may have had.
( later in his career he did KO Mizugaki, he dropped Faber several times and busted up Mighty Mouses jaw, so maybe there was more power than he gets credit for)

2- heavily taxing on his body
He rode it till the wheels came off.
And the wheels came off early, shortening his prime and leaving his peak physical years riddled with major knee and foot I
injuries, multiple ACL tears and plantar's facsciitis

 

[johny ringo]

Ever since I’ve been a little kid and watched “Ridley’s Believe It or Not” I cannot hear the word “nullify ” and not think of that asshat George Dillman

PLUS! PLUS! PLUS!

 

[Goldentrophy]

Don't need good footwork in MMA if you can literally turn and run away. It looks really fucking stupid, cowardly but its very effective.
Always thought Dominick's movement was overrated because the large cage can really make any type of movement effective imho and that's why running away is almost the best move.

Ala Gus vs Glover

 

[Harlekin]

Cruz had great MMA footwork for HIS TIME.
He fought a lot of wrestlers who only had a right/main hand and some kickboxing/thai plodding footwork from the 90s,
- But that was the mma standard back then.
It's not randomness though. It's designed for mma and he would do it differently in boxing, if he were young again.
Although he didn't seem to have cardio issues, it's a style for a man younger than 35. Most styles are though.

His head is almost always off the center line.
He circles his opponent 90 to more degrees all the time.
Tries to get the outside foot.
tons of feints and programming reactions
He managed to get away from kicks most of his career.
Stance switching makes him vulnerable for a brief moment. But so does every stance switch close to your opponent.
Probably should've used a jab feint more than usual against Cody in that case.

Cody tooled him at age 31, but so far nobody was able to reproduce it and he is 39 now.
Cejudo caught him with a knee and Vera was outpointed by a 37year old way past prime, semi retired, a dozen injuries Cruz. Till he caught him a few times.

 

[tgo007]

Here is Cruz talking about the evolution of the sport.



Remember how in the 90's in the nba, they barely shot 3 pointers and now they shoot a ton of 3 pointers.

If I had to say what was one of the biggest changes from mma in 2010 and now is that the average amount of leg kicks thrown is significantly more.

Also Cruz saying he loss 3 fights to kicks. You could throw a 4th one in there. The dillashaw fight.

mmadecisions thinks it should be a draw and the media were pretty much split 50/50 on who won the fight.

Cruz was limping after the fight because Dillashaw chopped Cruz's legs. Even if Dillashaw lost, the plan still worked.

And while Cruz is clearly past prime the last 5 years. I would say the biggest difference is cardio.

That's the main thing with getting old. You see guys like old floyd. Old Mvp. Old barboza. They're max speed and power may have diminished, but it's not by a huge amount. It's the cardio that disappears.

Cruz at 35 is different than others because when other fights hit 35, they've been in a ton of wars and have taken a ton of damage.

Cruz hasn't. He's still past prime and the injuries and age has diminished his skills.
It's just not as much as other 35+ year olds.

It's really about the evolution of the sport that would be difficult even for a prime Cruz. I did say I still think he's top 5. That's huge considering how good the BW division is.

Cruz in round 1 for most of his recent fights, he's still 90% there.

You can see a drop off in round 2+. He does not shuffle and dart nearly as much as his younger days. He gets tired much quicker.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Here is Cruz talking about the evolution of the sport.



Remember how in the 90's in the nba, they barely shot 3 pointers and now they shoot a ton of 3 pointers.

If I had to say what was one of the biggest changes from mma in 2010 and now is that the average amount of leg kicks thrown is significantly more.

Also Cruz saying he loss 3 fights to kicks. You could throw a 4th one in there. The dillashaw fight.

mmadecisions thinks it should be a draw and the media were pretty much split 50/50 on who won the fight.

Cruz was limping after the fight because Dillashaw chopped Cruz's legs. Even if Dillashaw lost, the plan still worked.

And while Cruz is clearly past prime the last 5 years. I would say the biggest difference is cardio.

That's the main thing with getting old. You see guys like old floyd. Old Mvp. Old barboza. They're max speed and power may have diminished, but it's not by a huge amount. It's the cardio that disappears.

Cruz at 35 is different than others because when other fights hit 35, they've been in a ton of wars and have taken a ton of damage.

Cruz hasn't. He's still past prime and the injuries and age has diminished his skills.
It's just not as much as other 35+ year olds.

It's really about the evolution of the sport that would be difficult even for a prime Cruz. I did say I still think he's top 5. That's huge considering how good the BW division is.

Cruz in round 1 for most of his recent fights, he's still 90% there.

You can see a drop off in round 2+. He does not shuffle and dart nearly as much as his younger days. He gets tired much quicker

That was an interesting breakdown by Cruz.
Not just age but injuries affect cardio. When you are older and injured you can’t train as hard, can’t do as much conditioning. Especially when it’s knee injuries. Roadwork and footwork becomes near impossible without being in constant pain.

Also Dillashaw chopped doms legs but Dom was already dealing with terrible plantar fasciitis. Pretty sure the arch of his foot basically collapsed or imploded during the fight. But yes, TJ found extreme success going for leg kicks late in the fight.

 

[HavokHarmon]

Might not apply but Weidman/Machida was pretty impressive at the time. Wasn’t super flashy but Machida presented a real problem in terms of distance management that Weidman did a good job of handling. Was interesting to see someone other than Shogun using the kick heavy pressure strategy against Lyoto. Chris kept up the pressure with kicks and when Lyoto kicked back he shot for a takedown. Led to a kickboxing match where only one guy was allowed to kick lol

 

[Vampire life]

There are two examples that come to mind when I think of fighters who came with an excellent gameplan to nullify a fighter with top tier footwork.

The first is Garbrandt vs Cruz. He kind of waited for Cruz to come to him. Didn’t try to chase him, and didn’t back up much. Hit nice and fast combos whenever Cruz tried to engage. Had Cruz running into big shots and getting frustrated.
Although Garbrandt had excellent footwork and athleticism himself so it’s not like he was truly overwhelmed in that department.

Another example for me is Teofimo Lopez vs Lomachenko. Waited for Loma to come to him, and then blasted big shots whenever he came into range. Had Loma extremely hesitant until the 6th or 7th round where he was like “fuck it” and actually started destroying Teo.

This seems like a very sound strategy when you have the power advantage but don’t have the feet or conditioning advantage. You don’t want to waste energy or even worse get countered chasing, so you let them come to you and when they get into range you fire big shots.

Reason I posted this is because I’m normally a footwork guy, but another training partner of mine actually has quicker and more active feet than me. I have the power advantage while he tends to pot shot and pitter patter and this tactic has worked well for me.

Another strategy would be like Petr Yan did against Sandhagen, where you slowly creep into range with a high guard. I’m not a huge fan of this tactic but it seems to work for a lot of people. Of course Yan was dealing with a serious height disadvantage as well, so he has to slowly close that distance.

The last thing you want to do is be like Tj vs Cruz or benevidez vs Cruz. Full on bullrushing your opponent will only get you check hooked and frustrated, or you just straight up run into big shots or takedowns. Just like Aldo vs Mcgregor or Aljo vs OMalley, but in these cases they had both the power and feet advantage.

Then you have guys like Faber who has decent feet himself, try to go footwork for footwork and move with Cruz. He just ended up getting out pointed for most of the fight. Although he did manage to time Cruz with a big right hand in the 2nd fight, but that was the extent of his success.

Just like when I spar my training partner, if I try to match his footwork and activity all I end up doing is getting out pointed the whole time. So I actually have to change my style to take on my opponents.

Matt mitrione had some of the best footwork in the hw division ever and got subbed by a slug
Guess who

 

[Vampire life]

View attachment 1045395

That’s the fat bastard that subbed mitrione

It was an injustice