Best examples of a fighter nullifying great footwork

[Harlekin]

Great footwork in MMA? Lmao


Cruz vs Necktats comes to mind.

Sounds like you already know, but nullifying footwork is all about cutting off the ring and not letting them dictate the pace and range. If your buddies dancing away from you in sparring stop giving him an escape route. Lateral movement can work wonders whether you're on the back foot or cutting off a quicker opponents exits.

I feel like Gaethje should have a few good examples of cutting off the ring instead of following a faster guy, granted he did the exact opposite vs Max lol

You're right. For example Gaethje did a good job angling vs Dustin in their second fight. Till he got caught at the end of the round. Then the kick happened anyway.

@ts: Garbrandt knew Cruz attack angles, because TAM studied Cruz for years, they just lacked the boxing knowledge and footwork.
Even TJ with Bang Ludwig couldn't figure it out.
And it still worked vs Vera, till Vera showed who has more power/chin and is much heavier fight night.

Cruz is all about getting off the center line, feinting, T-stepping and fighting in both stances.
But of course his setups, like all, have a limit.
He would've needed to add things to his arsenal, like Jon Jones did for many years. Although it wasn't much footwork, nor boxing in Jones case.

 

[FlowchartRog]

And why do you think they have better footwork and not kickboxers? Maybe because the needs of the sport is different? Or is boxing just superior in your opinion?

I think you know the answer to that. Why do you think boxers have better footwork?

 

[FlowchartRog]

Lol, so he just randomly moved his feet all the way to become a divisional all time great fighter? You sound like a true expert.



It's probably hard for you to name someone with good footwork in MMA, because MMA is harder to understand because it's much more multidimensional, than the very limited, one dimensional boxing. But just keep watching MMA and maybe eventually you'll get to understand it better.

 

[Oddmonster]

lol at Cruz and "great footwork" in the same sentence. He just randomly shuffles around like a spaz, often into punches.

If you want great footwork look at Pacquiao, Floyd, Inoue, Usyk. Most elite boxers.

This is a pretty weird take.

What defines great footwork is very different from MMA to boxing. Great boxing footwork would suck in MMA because of kicks and takedowns, and vice versa, great MMA footwork does not necessarily translate to boxing. And Cruz did have great footwork and movement for MMA.

 

[FlowchartRog]

That might be what makes it work, if the opponent has no read on what he's going to do with his feet it's hard to fight.

Cruz reminds me a lot of Sam Soliman the Aussie boxer, weird angles, different looks, really annoying to fight. Worked for Soliman too, gave Winky Wright all he could handle when he was close to best in the world at the time.

It's not a bad point to be fair. When you do stuff that's not by the book, not textbook, not taught in gyms, then yes it can catch people off guard and work really well. Soliman is a good example, he had that awkward herky jerky style that people can struggle with.

Another example is Mayorga, unpredictable without the typical rhythm and style of a boxer, and had more success than he should have Vs elite boxers.

Maidana too, but Maidana had a lot of attributes that put him well above the other two.

Nevertheless calling it "great footwork" is a bit retarded. Great footwork is knowing where and when to move, reading your opponent, being able to manoevre them into position, get out of position efficiently, with the least amount of movement.

Cruz's random footwork is just that, random nonsense. And the sort of thing any fighter could do if they chose to.

I feel like Cruz is somewhat lucky to have fought in MMA and the era that he reigned in, in a developing division. Against more skilled fighters with better boxing, he would have been caught a lot more often. A bit like this.

 

[StonedLemur]

lol at Cruz and "great footwork" in the same sentence. He just randomly shuffles around like a spaz, often into punches.

If you want great footwork look at Pacquiao, Floyd, Inoue, Usyk. Most elite boxers.

Tbf he stole a lot of his footwork from Willie Pep who had amazing footwork sir.

 

[Oddmonster]

It's not a bad point to be fair. When you do stuff that's not by the book, not textbook, not taught in gyms, then yes it can catch people off guard and work really well. Soliman is a good example, he had that awkward herky jerky style that people can struggle with.

Another example is Mayorga, unpredictable without the typical rhythm and style of a boxer, and had more success than he should have Vs elite boxers.

Maidana too, but Maidana had a lot of attributes that put him well above the other two.

Nevertheless calling it "great footwork" is a bit retarded. Great footwork is knowing where and when to move, reading your opponent, being able to manoevre them into position, get out of position efficiently, with the least amount of movement.

Cruz's random footwork is just that, random nonsense. And the sort of thing any fighter could do if they chose to.

I feel like Cruz is somewhat lucky to have fought in MMA and the era that he reigned in, in a developing division. Against more skilled fighters with better boxing, he would have been caught a lot more often. A bit like this.

Bro, Boxing footwork is MUCH easier than MMA footwork. You are trying to compare apples to apples, but it is apples to oranges - which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the different challenges in two sports that, while similar, are not the same.

 

[FlowchartRog]

This is a pretty weird take.

What defines great footwork is very different from MMA to boxing. Great boxing footwork would suck in MMA because of kicks and takedowns, and vice versa, great MMA footwork does not necessarily translate to boxing. And Cruz did have great footwork and movement for MMA.

No, he didn't, he just randomly shuffled around and people were confused by it.

And it's nothing to do with boxing Vs MMA, good footwork is good footwork. Classic boxing footwork still works in MMA, can still evade and outmanoevre opponents. Fighters just have to be quick with TDD. You don't have to be in a wrestling stance or MT stance in MMA constantly, there's plenty of fighters that are boxing heavy and have far superior footwork to Cruz.

Some examples of good footwork in MMA:

Pereira, Izzy, Yan (maybe not the current version), O'Malley.

Honourable mentions to GSP, Kebab, Cejudo, Whittaker.

O'Malley in particular is pretty fleet footed, easily outmanoevres opponents, changes direction quickly, manages distance well. It's boxing footwork, and he's not getting constantly taken down or unable to check kicks.

Yan and Pereira are examples of an efficient, non flashy, meat and potatoes approach to footwork, less is more.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Tbf he stole a lot of his footwork from Willie Pep who had amazing footwork sir.

The key difference is Pep's footwork was clever, considered, reactive. Cruz's is literally just random nonsense.

It might have been inspired by, but the difference between them is huge

 

[FlowchartRog]

Bro, Boxing footwork is MUCH easier than MMA footwork. You are trying to compare apples to apples, but it is apples to oranges - which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the different challenges in two sports that, while similar, are not the same.

I love MMA and I've been watching it since UFC 1. People who think Cruz has great footwork don't really know what great footwork is, and it more goes to show how low the bar is in MMA. It's still an evolving sport, and this era is more polished than ever, but it's got a long way to go before getting close to boxing level striking. Especially footwork and defence, the differences in those areas are huge.

 

[Oddmonster]

No, he didn't, he just randomly shuffled around and people were confused by it.

And it's nothing to do with boxing Vs MMA, good footwork is good footwork. Classic boxing footwork still works in MMA, can still evade and outmanoevre opponents. Fighters just have to be quick with TDD. You don't have to be in a wrestling stance or MT stance in MMA constantly, there's plenty of fighters that are boxing heavy and have far superior footwork to Cruz.

Some examples of good footwork in MMA:

Pereira, Izzy, Yan (maybe not the current version), O'Malley.

Honourable mentions to GSP, Kebab, Cejudo, Whittaker.

O'Malley in particular is pretty fleet footed, easily outmanoevres opponents, changes direction quickly, manages distance well. It's boxing footwork, and he's not getting constantly taken down or unable to check kicks.

Yan and Pereira are examples of an efficient, non flashy, meat and potatoes approach to footwork, less is more.

Cruz went 24-4 vs good opponents, and he is a 2x bantam weight champion. He has been knocked out only once - and that was against Cejudo, who is also a beast. What he did was working as intended.

And no - classic boxing footwork rarely works in MMA. The theory of great boxing footwork can be used to adapt to MMA.

And I might have misunderstood you because you kept shitting on MMA footwork, and highlighting boxers with great footwork.

I would say, that any footwork that helps you not take damage, and helps you deliver damage - is good footwork. Take Cruz as an example - he got hit very little, and still delivered enough damage to win the wast majority of his fight.

If the definition of something being good is not that it works, I don't know what your definition is.

 

[Oddmonster]

I love MMA and I've been watching it since UFC 1. People who think Cruz has great footwork don't really know what great footwork is, and it more goes to show how low the bar is in MMA. It's still an evolving sport, and this era is more polished than ever, but it's got a long way to go before getting close to boxing level striking. Especially footwork and defence, the differences in those areas are huge.

I look at it a little differently - as I said - it is 2 different sports, and having good boxing footwork is vastly easier than having good MMA footwork. Same with striking.

I feel I am helping derail OP's post right now so lets just agree to disagree.

 

[FlowchartRog]

Cruz went 24-4 vs good opponents, and he is a 2x bantam weight champion. He has been knocked out only once - and that was against Cejudo, who is also a beast. What he did was working as intended.

And no - classic boxing footwork rarely works in MMA. The theory of great boxing footwork can be used to adapt to MMA.

And I might have misunderstood you because you kept shitting on MMA footwork, and highlighting boxers with great footwork.

I would say, that any footwork that helps you not take damage, and helps you deliver damage - is good footwork. Take Cruz as an example - he got hit very little, and still delivered enough damage to win the wast majority of his fight.

If the definition of something being good is not that it works, I don't know what your definition is.

It's like saying Mayorga was a great "boxer". Was he effective with a high winning %? Absolutely. Did he have some good wins over world class fighters? Yes.

But he wasn't a great boxer in the true sense of the word, though he was undeniably effective.

Just because Cruz and his random footwork were effective doesn't mean it should be considered good or great. I consider it more flukish, like Mayorga. Not the sort of thing you'd want to teach to a novice MMA fighter.

Listing Cruz's record is neither here nor there. I didn't say Cruz was a bum, I'm just talking about his footwork.

The first fighter that he fought that had fast, efficient boxing style footwork was Cody - yes I know Cody is a joke now, but in that fight he was legit, and had an amateur boxing background - and he made Cruz look scrubby af, and showed his footwork to be the random nonsense it was.

For the record I do think Cruz was very good for his day, and clearly an elite bantamweight. But I think he had a lot going for him that had absolutely nothing to do with footwork. He was big for the division, with a good chin, good workrate, good stamina, very good wrestling. He had a lot of good attributes, and also was lucky to thrive in a division that was nowhere near as good as it is today.

 

[Banana Tree's Nemesis]

I've been of that opinion for a while know, although I don't think I've shared it to great extent here.

When we talk about fighters with "good footwork", what we usually mean is evasive fighters with a good ability to create favorsome angles.
What that means in practice though is that pretty much all the guys that fall into that category have their success fighting backwards.
The conclusions to that observation are a bit finnicky.

It is true that a decent way of dealing with this is moving faster forward than those guys are able to deal with it. The best example is someone like a Mike Tyson (as an analogy, boxing should work just fine) who made a career out of overwhelming pressure forward. In MMA context guys with a roughly comparable strategy would be Cormier, Paulo Costa, Vettori, Linneker.

What I consider an alternative that is at least as good if not better, is just not moving forward at all. Which is where things get a bit irritating. We know that damage or rather impact, is scored primarily and controlling the space/ being the aggressor is just a subordinate criterium. This creates a bit of an asymmetry to be exploited.
Some guys find the most success fighting backwards. So just by common sense, the best shot at beating a guy like that is to not let him fight on his backfoot (Leaving the attributes of the other fighter aside for now).
So how can you actually do this? Unless you get ahold of them, they can move away whenever they like. This creates a bit of a weird pressure for the other fighter to follow and maintain forward pressure. Which is a) not relevant to the scoring and b) not necessarily in the fighters best interest.
Yet that pressure is real, because if a guy moves backwards and the other doesn't follow, it looks like the stationary one is stalling or taking a break.

As much as I hate to say it, in that sense I think Yoel had possibly the best gameplan to beat Izzy. He still lost very clearly, but he overcame the pressure to follow Izzy around and Izzy was so hellbent on fighting backwards that at some point it looked like he was the one stalling, which he kind of was just as much as Yoel was.

 

[chinarice]

lol at Cruz and "great footwork" in the same sentence. He just randomly shuffles around like a spaz, often into punches.

If you want great footwork look at Pacquiao, Floyd, Inoue, Usyk. Most elite boxers.

Would love to see how these "great footwork" guys deal with kicks. I bet their footwork becomes nothing special, real quick

 

[Oddmonster]

But he wasn't a great boxer in the true sense of the word, though he was undeniably effective.

Just because Cruz and his random footwork were effective doesn't mean it should be considered good or great. I consider it more flukish, like Mayorga.

To me, if what you are doing is effective, and you get the results you want and are successful, what you do is good.

Cody had better "boxing" footwork, but we all know how well that worked out for him in the long run - because good "boxing" footwork does not work that well in MMA.

And you can call it flukish, but when it works for 20+ fights against high level opponents, that is not the word I would use.
"Fluke : an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck."

We will not agree on this - I think the way you look at it is strange, and your definition of "good footwork" is not the same as my definition. And that is ok.

 

[aerius]

To me, if what you are doing is effective, and you get the results you want and are successful, what you do is good.

Cody had better "boxing" footwork, but we all know how well that worked out for him in the long run - because good "boxing" footwork does not work that well in MMA.

And you can call it flukish, but when it works for 20+ fights against high level opponents, that is not the word I would use.
"Fluke : an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck."

We will not agree on this - I think the way you look at it is strange, and your definition of "good footwork" is not the same as my definition. And that is ok.

There's 2 components to good footwork - effectiveness, and efficiency. Effectiveness is getting to the position you want when you want so you can punch, defend, wrestle, or do whatever the heck it is you want to do at a given time. Efficiency is doing the above with the least amount of movement & energy expenditure.

Cruz is effective in that he can get to where he wants to be most of the time, but to put it politely, his efficiency is lacking since he often needs 10 steps and a half dozen direction changes to get to the same position that someone like Petr Yan or Aldo would reach in 2 or 3 steps. This is where Garbrandt had him beat, Cody didn't need as many steps to find his position as Cruz, he could often take a quick pivot or adjustment step and whack Cruz with punches whereas Cruz had to dance around for a dozen steps just to find an entry, and half the time he'd get whacked anyway since Cody was able to reposition in time with his more efficient footwork. Efficiency is speed, a fewer number of smaller steps will always be faster than a bunch of big steps.

 

[Krimzon]

floyd mayweather has amazing head movement and footwork, but if he tries turning around and presenting his ass to his opponent in mma, he'd get his ass knocked out right quick

 

[Oddmonster]

There's 2 components to good footwork - effectiveness, and efficiency. Effectiveness is getting to the position you want when you want so you can punch, defend, wrestle, or do whatever the heck it is you want to do at a given time. Efficiency is doing the above with the least amount of movement & energy expenditure.

Cruz is effective in that he can get to where he wants to be most of the time, but to put it politely, his efficiency is lacking since he often needs 10 steps and a half dozen direction changes to get to the same position that someone like Petr Yan or Aldo would reach in 2 or 3 steps. This is where Garbrandt had him beat, Cody didn't need as many steps to find his position as Cruz, he could often take a quick pivot or adjustment step and whack Cruz with punches whereas Cruz had to dance around for a dozen steps just to find an entry, and half the time he'd get whacked anyway since Cody was able to reposition in time with his more efficient footwork. Efficiency is speed, a fewer number of smaller steps will always be faster than a bunch of big steps.

I sorta agree. I would say Effectiveness is 80% and efficiency is 20%. Effectiveness is what is important, efficiency helps it be more effective.

And it is not like I think Cruz has the greatest footwork I have ever seen - but is was HIGHLY effective, while maybe not being the most efficient, so the other guy calling it bad just makes no sense to me. He said shit like - "He (Cruz) just randomly shuffles around like a spaz".

Also, comparing boxing footwork to MMA footwork is just silly to me. In boxing you have 2 weapons that can be used to attack 20%-25% of your opponents body. In MMA you have 8 weapons that can be used to attack 80%+ of you opponents body, + takedowns.

You might as well compare soccer players footwork to mma footwork, and say Ronaldo has better footwork than Cruz - it makes just as much sense.

 

[Street Bishop]

A good switch hitter with relentless pressure. Absolute nightmare matchup.