Ben Askren the latest example of minor-league hype not translating to the Major League of MMA.

[TheAmericanGazelle]

People are so stupid on this topic.

The UFC obviously has (in 2019) the greatest concentration of talent on average, and the overwhelming majority of top fighters.

However, the distributions of talent *do* overlap to some degree with the most impress non-UFC organizations.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Mousasi has been in practically every major org and is hardly a long-time UFC fighter (he was another UFC flop for the most part).

Are you trolling? He left the UFC on a 5 fight win streak, and was 7-1 in his last 8, having avenged his only loss in that period.

Mousasi's # of fights by promotion:

Pride: 4
Dream: 8
Strikeforce: 6
UFC: 12

 

[EXOICHO]

Askren was literally retired before he got traded to UFC

lets not act like he was in his prime LOL

hes getting a fucking hip replacement, hes old

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

LOL at Pride FC trying supplant #1 UFC.

Was this before or after UFC was banned from PPV ?

 

[mkt]

Are you trolling? He left the UFC on a 5 fight win streak, and was 7-1 in his last 8, having avenged his only loss in that period.

Mousasi's # of fights by promotion:

Pride: 4
Dream: 8
Strikeforce: 6
UFC: 12

His best UFC win was over Weidman who was already on a 2-loss streak. He beat fighters like post-TRT, ancient version of Hendo and Belfort. That looks good on a Wikipedia resume, but doesn't fool anyone who seriously watches the sport. Machida (already past his prime even in the first fight), Hall (LOL) and Jacare (by total domination) told us all we needed to know about Mousasi in the UFC.

 

[jeskola]

Meanwhile Larkin got creamed by Lima and Mousasi just lost to Lovato, but ok, keep living in a dream world that UFC fighters are on a different level than what's happening worldwide.

There are exceptions to every rule (Mousasi). Also, those fights were not UFC fights. FInally, the Larkin comment actually proves my point - he couldn't hack it in the UFC, but somehow he is still your measuring stick for the developmental league.

 

[SuperNerd]

TS is a fan of the cool brand.

 

[vanillaisis]

Askren was literally retired before he got traded to UFC

lets not act like he was in his prime LOL

hes getting a fucking hip replacement, hes old

The haters don't give a fuck but it's whatever. Ben did a lot of talking so it's kind of warranted. He's still my boy.

 

[warriorfan808]

I feel he would have done better years ago. Not saying he would have been champ, but he would have done well

 

[Schaub]

None of the fighters that competed in Pride within the last decade have amounted to anything in the UFC!

 

[mkt]

When Pride & UFC merged, guys like Hendo, Rampage, Big Nog, etc did much better than their UFC peers like Matt Hughes, Tim Sylvia, and Chuck Liddell.

Chuck and Hughes were in their late 30s and past their primes by then. How about all the talk of Wand, Shogun and Cro-Cop dominating and walking through all those UFC TUF fighters? Then Forrest beats both Shogun and Rampage, Rashad beats Rampage, Wand never gets close to a title shot, and neither does Cro-Cop, who instead gets KO'd via head kick by a BJJ guy (along with Mir, Schaub and a bunch of other fighters). Those were some fun times and the Pride lovers ate serious crow.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

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[EndlessCritic]

FInally, the Larkin comment actually proves my point - he couldn't hack it in the UFC, but somehow he is still your measuring stick for the developmental league.

Are you a fucking moron?

Larkin started his UFC career as a middleweight. After 3 consecutive losses, he dropped down to welterweight.

Larkin went 4-1 in the UFC as a welterweight. His only loss was a razor close decision against Tumenov. At welterweight, he had wins over Ponzinibbio, Masvidal, and Magny.

Following consecutive wins over Masvidal and Magny, he went to Bellator with his stock at an all time high. He was a 2-1 favorite over Douglas Lima, and got creamed.

But yes, please tell me more about how Larkin couldn't hack it in the UFC.

 

[IsNormal]

If Askren is used as the prime example of how non-UFC fighters can't compete with UFC fighters, that can be easily countered using some basic MMA math.

Askren lost to Masvidal.
- Masvidal lost to Larkin
- Larkin lost to Lima
- Lima lost to Askren

Askren lost to Maia
- Maia lost to Rory
- Rory lost to Lawler (and more guys in Bellator but you probably don't count those since they were after he lost his killer instinct)
- Lawler lost to Askren (controversial, but still)
- Lawler also lost to Larkin (just 2 years before Robbie became the UFC champ) and Larkin lost to Lima who lost to Askren

Not using MMA math to argue who would beat who in future fights.
Just showing that many of these guys can hang with UFC level opponents.
Even if the UFC has a better top 10 there are for sure a few Bellator guys who can beat some of them. They would win a few and lose a few - but they surely can compete.

 

[gladiator40]

Desperate for new talent?

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

Are you trolling? He left the UFC on a 5 fight win streak, and was 7-1 in his last 8, having avenged his only loss in that period.

Mousasi's # of fights by promotion:

Pride: 4
Dream: 8
Strikeforce: 6
UFC: 12

The fact that the moose had a much higher win % in other orgs speaks op’s truth

 

[EndlessCritic]

The fact that the moose had a much higher win % in other orgs speaks op’s truth

Did you count before making that post?

3 wins in 4 Pride fights (75% win rate)
9 wins in 12 UFC fights (75% win rate)
4 wins in 6 Strikeforce fights (66% win rate)

 

[TrueFightFan]

The UFC is the Major League of MMA. It is time to face the facts - the era of Pride, Dream, Rizin, Strikeforce, WEC, Affliction, Elite XC, Bellator, etc trying to supplant UFC as the #1 Major League of MMA is over. UFC is where it is at - these other organizations, and future ones to come, will forever and always be minor league developmental orgs, or places for has-beens to make a few bucks on the way to retirement, with the rare exception of legit current talent leaving UFC for a huge contract elsewhere.

Sure, some fighters that enjoyed success outside the UFC can come in and do OK, like Justin Gaethje. But for every one of him, there are 3 like Ben Askren, Ill Will Brooks, and Marcin Held.

Ahhh.... Dana... We are graced with your presence!

Look, all of your MMA Math Gymnastics will never change the fact that you screwed up the Fedor opportunity. Strikeforce came and cleaned house, Pride guys came and won gold well after their primes and a few WEC guys came and wrecked the UFC. Yes, you did go and buy everyone out so you can claim their victories, if you must, but Askren came and took the best your golden boy, only a few fights removed from gold, could dish out amd subbed him. Then you have a lucky KO from Masvidal and a great fight against Maia and you call this "bush league"?

I'm not surprised, motherfucker...

 

[WOLVERINEKILLS]

None of the fighters that competed in Pride within the last decade have amounted to anything in the UFC!

Especially guys like former UFC champ Anderson Silva, former UFC champ Shogun Rua, former UFC champ Rampage Jackson, former interim UFC champ Big Nog...

 

[mkt]

Lame thread. Askren is clearly out of his prime and even needs a new hip. He could have been champ in his prime

Garbage. If he came in 2012 like he wanted to, he'd lose to GSP, Hendricks, prime Lawler, Lombard, Palhares, Shields and Maia (again). He may very well have lost to Fitch, Koscheck, Rory and a few others, too. The guy barely beat Jay Hieron. Also, two of the guys he fought were considerably older than he was with a lot more mileage. Masvidal is the same age as Askren, but has a ton more fights, not even counting his early bareknuckle days.