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I've stated before Winter Soldier is almost a perfect CBM genre piece , I have no alliance to Marvel/DC. Aside from pacing/editing issues in the first 1/3 of BvS the movie is a spectacle to behold. I can see why audiences wouldn't be amused by what they saw, the knightmare sequence is disjarring on purpose, Snyder shows the audience how Bruce is disorientated by these parallel world memories collapsing in on his consciousness. The deconstruction not only of the Batman/Superman mythos but of the CBM genre as a whole, he places the damn end of scene trailers for JL characters right before Batman and Superman square off, showing audiences how crass and commercialized the genre has become.
Doing a deconstruction is fine. Doing a deconstruction while trying to build you 'verse is NOT fine. You need an original starting point to reconstruct from. Case in point, Superman in this verse is a TERRIBLE superhero. So why should we particularly care that he's dead? When the story aired back in the 90's NEWS OUTLETS ran the story and in universe it was treated as a MASSIVE event since Superman was seen as the greatest good guy, The Big Blue Boy Scout, the measuring pole for goodness, decency, selflessness, and steadfastness. This one had none of these things going for him so the caring isn't there.
I'm still dumbfounded how they fucked up this movie. They had the greatest concept in comic book history to work with. Batman vs. Superman. The biggest showdown ever. Avengers didn't have shit on that. All they had to do was make a coherent story and give these characters a legitimate reason to fight each other. They had the entire story written for them in the comics. They needed to focus on the story they were telling. But no, they had to focus on future films, throw too much shit in this one, and make it incoherent.
Making a damn good movie is what would have got people interested in the Justice League. Not rushing through this one. And now its too late to do over. If they can't even get Batman vs. Superman right, I have zero faith in them making a good Justice League movie.
WATCHMEN Co-Creator Dave Gibbons Slams BATMAN V SUPERMAN
Dave Gibbons: "I feel that what is happening now with the DC characters in film, to my mind, is going in the wrong direction... What Marvel has seemed to have done is take their characters, with a dark side and a light side, and their humor and their pathos, and their human emotion, and they actually have a long vision of what they're going to do. They put together films that are really entertaining, that are exciting, that do have threat and jeopardy, but have humor and a human quality to it, and a sense of hope.
But I feel what DC has done particularly with the Superman vs. Batman movie is they really have taken a misstep on it. I mean, I wrote a comic book called 'World's Finest', which was Superman vs. Batman, and what I homed in, and I am not saying this is the only take, but it might have helped, was you have Batman who is a dark hidden creature who lives in a dark evil city whose antagonist is a brightly colored clown. You got Superman who is a brightly colored figure, the yang if you like to Batman's yin, he lives in a bright hopeful city, but with a villain, an opponent, who is a dark grey scheming business man. So the whole universe's are completely complimentary.
When I wrote my story, I got a lot of mileage out of crossing those over, and it turned out Luthor went to Gotham, and the Joker went to Metropolis, and the Joker wanted to black out Metropolis, and Luthor wanted to set Gotham on fire. So to me if you are doing Superman vs. Batman, the first thing, which is implied by the "vs," is there has to be a difference, and I think where the latest film suffered was because they were both these dark opaque angsty creatures.
I thought, I have to say that Ben Affleck's Batman was brilliant. I thought if he'd been in a Batman film on his own... I also think DC sort of lost their nerve because Superman Vs. Batman, which is basically Frank Miller's Dark Knight story, is enough for a movie without putting Doomsday in it, which is another complete Superman movie, without shoehorning The Flash and the Cyborg, and without Wonder Woman, she's a movie in her own right." It's a harsh analysis, but Gibbons' words don't fall too far with what a lot of critics and fans have critiqued about the film to begin with.
Perhaps at the moment, I'm less than 100% thrilled with DC. I'm certainly not coming down on Zack, but to my taste, they kind of missed the [inaudible] there. I think also Marvel have been really bold. They introduced the characters slowly, so when they put them all in a movie together, it gave me that same thrill as I had when a kid when they put all the characters into the Avengers. 'Wow! They're all in one comic!' And the latest Captain America [Civil War] movie, the bit when the two teams run toward each other with all their powers blazing was just 'Oh! Yeah! This is what comics are all about!' I think Marvel have done it with verve and wit. DC kind of missed out on that."
WATCHMEN Co-Creator Dave Gibbons Slams BATMAN V SUPERMAN
Dave Gibbons: "I feel that what is happening now with the DC characters in film, to my mind, is going in the wrong direction... What Marvel has seemed to have done is take their characters, with a dark side and a light side, and their humor and their pathos, and their human emotion, and they actually have a long vision of what they're going to do. They put together films that are really entertaining, that are exciting, that do have threat and jeopardy, but have humor and a human quality to it, and a sense of hope.
But I feel what DC has done particularly with the Superman vs. Batman movie is they really have taken a misstep on it. I mean, I wrote a comic book called 'World's Finest', which was Superman vs. Batman, and what I homed in, and I am not saying this is the only take, but it might have helped, was you have Batman who is a dark hidden creature who lives in a dark evil city whose antagonist is a brightly colored clown. You got Superman who is a brightly colored figure, the yang if you like to Batman's yin, he lives in a bright hopeful city, but with a villain, an opponent, who is a dark grey scheming business man. So the whole universe's are completely complimentary.
When I wrote my story, I got a lot of mileage out of crossing those over, and it turned out Luthor went to Gotham, and the Joker went to Metropolis, and the Joker wanted to black out Metropolis, and Luthor wanted to set Gotham on fire. So to me if you are doing Superman vs. Batman, the first thing, which is implied by the "vs," is there has to be a difference, and I think where the latest film suffered was because they were both these dark opaque angsty creatures.
I thought, I have to say that Ben Affleck's Batman was brilliant. I thought if he'd been in a Batman film on his own... I also think DC sort of lost their nerve because Superman Vs. Batman, which is basically Frank Miller's Dark Knight story, is enough for a movie without putting Doomsday in it, which is another complete Superman movie, without shoehorning The Flash and the Cyborg, and without Wonder Woman, she's a movie in her own right." It's a harsh analysis, but Gibbons' words don't fall too far with what a lot of critics and fans have critiqued about the film to begin with.
Perhaps at the moment, I'm less than 100% thrilled with DC. I'm certainly not coming down on Zack, but to my taste, they kind of missed the [inaudible] there. I think also Marvel have been really bold. They introduced the characters slowly, so when they put them all in a movie together, it gave me that same thrill as I had when a kid when they put all the characters into the Avengers. 'Wow! They're all in one comic!' And the latest Captain America [Civil War] movie, the bit when the two teams run toward each other with all their powers blazing was just 'Oh! Yeah! This is what comics are all about!' I think Marvel have done it with verve and wit. DC kind of missed out on that."
Yet there is the extreme on the other end of the spectrum that Marvel movies fall into.
That being lacking substance, too much filler, and just boring at times. The pace crawls in all the Iron Mans, the Hulks, Cap movies and the Avengers. They fill with campy humor, scenes in which the Characters express their inner most feelings to everyone. It is like worse than watching The Walking Dead.
Yet there is the extreme on the other end of the spectrum that Marvel movies fall into.
That being lacking substance, too much filler, and just boring at times. The pace crawls in all the Iron Mans, the Hulks, Cap movies and the Avengers. They fill with campy humor, scenes in which the Characters express their inner most feelings to everyone. It is like worse than watching The Walking Dead.
Yeah 10 billion dollars says that formula is working , it'll have its detractors but generally speaking the MCU is well received even with some of their low to mid tier entry's and the Critically acclaimed ones , hell GOTG got high praise from Stephen Spielberg himself.
WATCHMEN Co-Creator Dave Gibbons Slams BATMAN V SUPERMAN
Dave Gibbons: "I feel that what is happening now with the DC characters in film, to my mind, is going in the wrong direction... What Marvel has seemed to have done is take their characters, with a dark side and a light side, and their humor and their pathos, and their human emotion, and they actually have a long vision of what they're going to do. They put together films that are really entertaining, that are exciting, that do have threat and jeopardy, but have humor and a human quality to it, and a sense of hope.
But I feel what DC has done particularly with the Superman vs. Batman movie is they really have taken a misstep on it. I mean, I wrote a comic book called 'World's Finest', which was Superman vs. Batman, and what I homed in, and I am not saying this is the only take, but it might have helped, was you have Batman who is a dark hidden creature who lives in a dark evil city whose antagonist is a brightly colored clown. You got Superman who is a brightly colored figure, the yang if you like to Batman's yin, he lives in a bright hopeful city, but with a villain, an opponent, who is a dark grey scheming business man. So the whole universe's are completely complimentary.
When I wrote my story, I got a lot of mileage out of crossing those over, and it turned out Luthor went to Gotham, and the Joker went to Metropolis, and the Joker wanted to black out Metropolis, and Luthor wanted to set Gotham on fire. So to me if you are doing Superman vs. Batman, the first thing, which is implied by the "vs," is there has to be a difference, and I think where the latest film suffered was because they were both these dark opaque angsty creatures.
I thought, I have to say that Ben Affleck's Batman was brilliant. I thought if he'd been in a Batman film on his own... I also think DC sort of lost their nerve because Superman Vs. Batman, which is basically Frank Miller's Dark Knight story, is enough for a movie without putting Doomsday in it, which is another complete Superman movie, without shoehorning The Flash and the Cyborg, and without Wonder Woman, she's a movie in her own right." It's a harsh analysis, but Gibbons' words don't fall too far with what a lot of critics and fans have critiqued about the film to begin with.
Perhaps at the moment, I'm less than 100% thrilled with DC. I'm certainly not coming down on Zack, but to my taste, they kind of missed the [inaudible] there. I think also Marvel have been really bold. They introduced the characters slowly, so when they put them all in a movie together, it gave me that same thrill as I had when a kid when they put all the characters into the Avengers. 'Wow! They're all in one comic!' And the latest Captain America [Civil War] movie, the bit when the two teams run toward each other with all their powers blazing was just 'Oh! Yeah! This is what comics are all about!' I think Marvel have done it with verve and wit. DC kind of missed out on that."
This british is just upset they did not use his comic, "world's finest" as the template. Why he even bring that up? That is what his fucking problem is.
Yeah 10 billion dollars says that formula is working , it'll have its detractors but generally speaking the MCU is well received even with some of their low to mid tier entry's and the Critically acclaimed ones , hell GOTG got high praise from Stephen Spielberg himself.
Yeah 10 billion dollars says that formula is working , it'll have its detractors but generally speaking the MCU is well received even with some of their low to mid tier entry's and the Critically acclaimed ones , hell GOTG got high praise from Stephen Spielberg himself.
This british is just upset they did not use his comic, "world's finest" as the template. Why he even bring that up? That is what his fucking problem is.
C'mon, no need to use such hateful language. You're usually pretty cool but this BvS aftermath has shown a different side to you, an uglier, unreasonable side. My advice is to not take it as personal because there's bound to be more negative reactions to the movie coming our way.
C'mon, no need to use such hateful language. You're usually pretty cool but this BvS aftermath has shown a different side to you, an uglier side. My advice is to not take it as personal because there's bound to be more negative reactions to the movie coming our way.
This british is just upset they did not use his comic, "world's finest" as the template. Why he even bring that up? That is what his fucking problem is.
Worlds finest fit the tone for the world Bruce Timm crafted in the early to mid 90s Batman and Superman animated series because of how well established each character was. This included Joker and Luthor being portrayed well by their Voice Actors ( Mark Hamill and Clancy Brown) . I don't think think it would have translated all that well into a love action retelling.
If that's your belief that Dave Gibbons' main reason for criticizing BvS is because they didn't use his comic book as his template, that's your call. Not going to argue with that.
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