BATMAN V SUPERMAN (Dragonlord's Review, post #1)

[Kiddo716]

suspension of belief is a prerequisite for movies such as this.

 

[BVG]

The impact was some make-up and a cliched emotional moment? It sure didn't have an impact in the fight when he'd take a few of them and then just continue with his choreographed fighting. That essentially takes my interest out of the fight because I know I'm just waiting for the next plot point.

You asked if Cap could take a sledge hammer to the face without any physical damage...I just showed you that he couldn't. His face is busted up on the right side from letting Bucky unload on him with that metal arm. So I answered your question. I mean what were you expecting beyond "some make up" in a movie rated for children? A caved in skull?

So I answered your point, and now you are just bitching...so whatev's...

I don't see a difference between bad CGI fighting and uninteresting physical fighting.

Investment.

What investment did you have in any of the marvel bad guys beyond Loki? Were you invested in Doomsday? Were you invested in Abomination? How about any of the bad guys in the SPiderman movies? Ok...Doc oc was great...he was great because his character was tradgic and had an actual arc.

But generally speaking people are more invested in the conflict between Tony Stark and Steve Rogers fighting each other because we've had several movies building up those characters and getting invested in them. Much more so than even DocOc or Loki and much more so than Doomsday or Abomination.

Got any other questions you need answered?

 

[Deleted member 429137]

You asked if Cap could take a sledge hammer to the face without any physical damage...I just showed you that he couldn't. His face is busted up on the right side from letting Bucky unload on him with that metal arm. So I answered your question. I mean what were you expecting beyond "some make up" in a movie rated for children? A caved in skull?

So I answered your point, and now you are just bitching...so whatev's...

I wasn't uninterested in the fight scene because he didn't look like it did him damage, I was uninterested in the fight scene because he didn't act like it did any damage. Do you know the difference? One makes for a more interesting fight and one does not.

Investment.

What investment did you have in any of the marvel bad guys beyond Loki? Were you invested in Doomsday? Were you invested in Abomination? How about any of the bad guys in the SPiderman movies? Ok...Doc oc was great...he was great because his character was tradgic and had an actual arc.

But generally speaking people are more invested in the conflict between Tony Stark and Steve Rogers fighting each other because we've had several movies building up those characters and getting invested in them. Much more so than even DocOc or Loki and much more so than Doomsday or Abomination.

Got any other questions you need answered?

I'm not talking about Civil War, I'm taking about Winter Soldier. And I can tell you that I have no investment in a predictable movie with uninteresting characters beating each other up in fight scenes without a sense of gravity.

Movies that try really hard to convince me they're grounded in reality and then have the same goofy punch-ups that I've seen for decades... well, I just get pulled out of the story. Same thing with movies where the villains fire hundreds of rounds of ammunition: I instantly feel less interested in what's on screen because what's going to happen is literally what happens every time that situation arises in a movie. Picture Joe Rogan screaming into the mic when someone pulls Rubber Guard: "Oh! The bad guys are shooting bullets at the hero! It could be all over right now! ... and he's out. He found a potted plant to hide behind."

There's really only three things I look for in movies (and I'll happily love movies that do only one or two of these):

Is the plot interesting or has the movie engaged me so that I'm not thinking about how predictable the plot is?
Do the characters interact in a way that I could enjoy watching for two hours regardless of the plot?
Am I seeing anything interesting or unexpected that I haven't seen before?

Super-hero movies tend to be so shitty that I really only have one criterion:

Am I interested in what's happening when there are no super-heroes on screen?

Winter Soldier couldn't even get me interested when there were super-heroes on screen.

 

[BVG]

I wasn't uninterested in the fight scene because he didn't look like it did him damage, I was uninterested in the fight scene because he didn't act like it did any damage. Do you know the difference? One makes for a more interesting fight and one does not.

Remember that part where Bucky shoots him 2-3 times in non life threatening areas? I do...remember how that made cap stop , and fall to the ground in agony? I do.

Remember how in that gif...Roger's eye is busted up so bad it's shut...and how he is beyond the capability or will to fight back or save himself when the heli carrier crashes? I do. But Cap has a healing ability . It's not as fast as wolverine but it's definitely a thing. So in Avengers when the Chitari shoot him in the ribs...he's hurt from it, but by the time they won the fight I'd wager that wound healed itself to the point it didn't bother Roger's anymore. So when you see a scene where he gets injured and then a while later that injury doesn't bother him anymore...that's why.

I'm not talking about Civil War, I'm taking about Winter Soldier. And I can tell you that I have no investment in a predictable movie with uninteresting characters beating each other up in fight scenes without a sense of gravity.

Movies that try really hard to convince me they're grounded in reality and then have the same goofy punch-ups that I've seen for decades... well, I just get pulled out of the story. Same thing with movies where the villains fire hundreds of rounds of ammunition: I instantly feel less interested in what's on screen because what's going to happen is literally what happens every time that situation arises in a movie. Picture Joe Rogan screaming into the mic when someone pulls Rubber Guard: "Oh! The bad guys are shooting bullets at the hero! It could be all over right now! ... and he's out. He found a potted plant to hide behind."

There's really only three things I look for in movies (and I'll happily love movies that do only one or two of these):

Is the plot interesting or has the movie engaged me so that I'm not thinking about how predictable the plot is?
Do the characters interact in a way that I could enjoy watching for two hours regardless of the plot?
Am I seeing anything interesting or unexpected that I haven't seen before?

Super-hero movies tend to be so shitty that I really only have one criterion:

Am I interested in what's happening when there are no super-heroes on screen?

Winter Soldier couldn't even get me interested when there were super-heroes on screen.

Roger's isn't as interesting as Stark...I'll give you that. I can't make him interesting to you...I mean it's a Captain America movie with Captain America in it. As far as Predictable...uhm...ALL THESE SUPER HERO MOVIES ARE PREDICTABLE. Give me one that wasn't? Batman? Superman? All of Marvel. All future marvel? I can tell you what's going to happen in all these movies...ALL STAR WARS movies...before I go to see it. You are suppose to be there for explosions...some laughs...maybe some tears.

I hope that Civil War's popularity helps trend these movies into having a bit more meat of the story bone. But I think you are expecting too much from a comic book movie tbh...So why should I try to help convince you that WinterSoldier > Shawshank Redemption?

It's not.

 

[streets ahead]

Is Streetfighter the Sonny Chiba one or the Jean Claude Van Damme one?

 

[KnightTemplar]

There is a huge list of movies with better fight scene than winter solider.

This is just a fanboy comment. You clearly don't watch action movies if you think this. There are many good older films from Hong Kong that have way better fight choreography. The action is okay for a CB movie but again it pales in comparison to so of the great action films out there.

Please list the movies you think have superior fight scenes to WS/CW.

 

[BVG]

Please list the movies you think have superior fight scenes to WS/CW.

He's actually not far off with this assessment. My wifes Chinese and all her movies be them drama comedy or action seem to have kung fu in them. And some of the choreography is on point.

SOME.

But the budget is much lower so you can't really compare.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Remember that part where Bucky shoots him 2-3 times in non life threatening areas? I do...remember how that made cap stop , and fall to the ground in agony? I do.

Is that one moment supposed to make me mentally go back to the drawn out, boring fight scenes and pretend that they were enjoyable? That's not how viewing a movie works and you're scraping rock bottom in your thinking here.

Remember how in that gif...Roger's eye is busted up so bad it's shut...and how he is beyond the capability or will to fight back or save himself when the heli carrier crashes? I do. But Cap has a healing ability . It's not as fast as wolverine but it's definitely a thing. So in Avengers when the Chitari shoot him in the ribs...he's hurt from it, but by the time they won the fight I'd wager that wound healed itself to the point it didn't bother Roger's anymore. So when you see a scene where he gets injured and then a while later that injury doesn't bother him anymore...that's why.

What are you trying to convince me of here? The action scenes were not interesting and I told you why: because he's not fighting like he's facing something that's a danger to him. I don't know what you're trying to explain away: you're not going to cite somewhat related movies and make me realize, "Wait a minute! What a fool I've been! I see now that mundane fight scene was actually SUPER THRILLING!"

Roger's isn't as interesting as Stark...I'll give you that. I can't make him interesting to you...I mean it's a Captain America movie with Captain America in it.

There are plenty of writers and directors that could have made him interesting to watch.

As far as Predictable...uhm...ALL THESE SUPER HERO MOVIES ARE PREDICTABLE. Give me one that wasn't?

Iron Man surprised me becuse when Jeff Bridges confronts whatsherface at the office and realizes he has to do away with her, she gets herself out of danger via some quick thinking and it's actually Tony Stark who winds up helpless and needs to be rescued. It's a little thing, but just taking the energy to do something slightly different than the hero-rescues-girlfriend trope made those ten minutes of screen time much, much more enjoyable for me. And when a movie can set up several ten-minute groupings of screen time that are enjoyable -- then I'm going to enjoy it.

The didn't have her do some stupid ninja shit, they simply had her thinking quickly on her feet like a smart person might do. That seems like the bare minimum of what I should be allowed to want to see in a movie.

Winter soldier relished every trope it could.

Batman? Superman? All of Marvel. All future marvel? I can tell you what's going to happen in all these movies...ALL STAR WARS movies...before I go to see it.

Instead of pondering, "Maybe there is a way this movie was overly predictable that some people might find unappealling." you've just outright decided I'm completely unreasonable. Think about that.

You are suppose to be there for explosions...some laughs...maybe some tears.

And if those explosions are not just happening because of cinematic autopilot and if the characters delivering the laughs and tears are interesting and engaging... then I will enjoy it. What part of thought offends your delicate sensibilities?

I hope that Civil War's popularity helps trend these movies into having a bit more meat of the story bone. But I think you are expecting too much from a comic book movie tbh...So why should I try to help convince you that WinterSoldier > Shawshank Redemption?

It's not.

You're not even reading what I'm writing. You've set your brain on "I don't like what he's saying so I have to pretend that he's being unreasonable" and are literally just vomiting up any stupid shit you can think of. I listed three things I look for in movies and plenty of movies manage to deliver at least one of those things. Don't get pissy because you like WS when it literally has none of the things I enjoy in a movie.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

No you are forgetting he has limits...no he couldn't take that sledge hammer to the face....

Clearly it had an impact...you just forgot it or are dismissing it.

I liked Civil War because it had a great argument where both sides point of view were both right and wrong...And it didn't resolve that argument at the end. Which leads to discussion and arguments everywhere. Including in these threads. Where as the reasons for Batman and Superman fighting were really very hollow and the reason it resolved it self was even more hollow and then we turned our attention to a barely introduced cgi...thing. that nobody has any investment in.

I think it's much more compelling having to hero's fight than having a hero fight against some badly animated cgi thing with no character or soul to it.

So Cap did save himself from Winter Grunge the same way Supes saved himself. He appealed to the sensitive side.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I wasn't a fan of the fight scenes, so much as I was the tone of the action sequences in general. It's amazing what the right music choice and camera work can do. That scene on the street when Bucky first shows up is epic, and it feels appropriately gritty, simply due to how well they present it. That's what Winter Soldier excelled at. Making a bunch of silly cartoon characters fighting it out, feel like there were real stakes involved. I thought that It was the first Marvel flick, where the action scenes didn't feel like they were just going through the motions.

But yeah, the fight choreography was nothing we haven't seen before. Solid, but nothing special.

I am not sure, but I dont believe there was any music during the high way fight scene. Actually I dont believe there is much music the whole movie. BVS soundtrack trumps anything MCU movie thus far. And the camera work is cutting too fast. And there is plenty of wire fu with Cap flying through a bus, ScarJo swinging from bridges, and I forget who else does flips. And how come no one has figured out to shoot cap low? That shield is too small to protect his whole body.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

so you are complaining about the unrealistic aspects of a comic book movie? you do realize this is a work of fiction about super-powered beings, right?

Cap movies do not display "super powers" or powers that are all that super to begin with. It is just chop socky, wire-fu, beautiful characters.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Please list the movies you think have superior fight scenes to WS/CW.

Just about every movie that only has guns and Kah Rah Tay. Because that is all WS is : guns and Krotty.

As for Civil War, Witch Girl looks like the Last Airbender. Cap, ScarJo, Winter Grunge, Token Black Panther, Hawkeye are just doing kah rah tay.

Spidey vs Cap is cool but brief. Spidey vs birdsuit and Winter Grunge, you can barely see what is happening. Hawkeye firing arrows to distract Ironman so Witchgirl can pull the Last Airbender is meh.

Antman getting big is cool, but why he have to lose so much speed?

 

[method115]

Cap movies do not display "super powers" or powers that are all that super to begin with. It is just chop socky, wire-fu, beautiful characters.

Civil War did because of the the Witch and the other Avenger characters being involved.

 

[Frode Falch]

Can a moderator please just make a marvel vs DC comic discussion thread? Let the comic ner.. I mean the comic fans, duke it out there.

I wanna be able to go into this thread to read relevant news about the movie. I dont want to read wall after wall of text. Text from people with a little different level of view on comic characters then i have.. To put ut mildly.

Thanks.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Can a moderator please just make a marvel vs DC comic discussion thread? Let the comic ner.. I mean the comic fans, duke it out there.

I wanna be able to go into this thread to read relevant news about the movie. I dont want to read wall after wall of text. Text from people with a little different level of view on comic characters then i have.. To put ut mildly.

Thanks.

The movie came out already, and Dragon has not posted any new developments.

 

[Pem123]

Is Streetfighter the Sonny Chiba one or the Jean Claude Van Damme one?

JCV.

 

[Pem123]

Opinions.

Imo that list is not that long. As comic movies go is number 1

I'm talking in term of action films, WS dont make it into the tops ten imo.

 

[Pem123]

Please list the movies you think have superior fight scenes to WS/CW.

Above I've listed action movies that are better than WS.


Ip man 1&2, ip man legends, the raids, ong baks have better fight scene than winter soliders.

 

[streets ahead]

JCV.

Dude. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[highkicknomore]

Above I've listed action movies that are better than WS.


Ip man 1&2, ip man legends, the raids, ong baks have better fight scene than winter soliders.

No one will win this argument because it's a preference. What you like, other's won't like.

Having said that, I like Winter Soldier's fight scenes because it looks hard and brutal. Some of the ones you mentioned looks too choregraphed, smooth for my taste.

I also thought BvS fight scenes was badass.