Aspinal - True Hw champ

[AstralPanda]

There isn't much data on Tom because he destroys everyone in like a minute

That's a huge piece of data in itself ththough

He's good. I just don't really rate HW very highly. The most skilled fighters have always been in the lower divisions, with a few exceptions.

I think Jon's biggest test was DC. Who himself was an all time great HW, could've easily been the goat HW if he'd stayed there instead of moving down for the sake of Cain.


He was a multi dimensional threat, beyond that he had extremely high fight iq. Tactical, strategic, he knew exactly how to move inside Jon's range and actually land on him.

It's not just skill that will overcome someone like Jon, it's the battle of minds. Being able to match him in his reads and fight IQ, which is amongst the best the sports ever seen.

I don't see it. Tom is good, but nothing so far has proven he's that guy. People want him to be pretty badly though.

The caveat again is that Jon is old, nobody knows how he's gonna look, conceivably he could lose to a lot of guys.. we won't really know until he fights again.

 

[Skarsgard]

I think the issue when people analyze Jones is that they analyze him based on his worst performances.

Santos, Smith, OSP, Reyes, Gus 1.

The problem with that is it says more about Jones being at odds with his own motivation and potential. Which isn't uncommon in sports, especially when a fighter or athlete is dominant.

The version who fought DC was the best version of Jones. The smartest, most creative, utilized every tool in his arsenal from the first second of every round.

I don't think he respected a lot of his opponents in the way he did DC and it reflected in his performances.

GSP once said that he's always afraid. He can never sleep before his fights but before he fought Matt Serra, he slept like a baby.

Upsets happen when the butterflies aren't there. The adrenaline that comes from healthy fear and respect of your opponent and if you study Jon's career very closely, you can see he was just going through the motions for many of his fights.

ESPN did a round table before Jon fought Gane which had DC, Rashad, Smith and Reyes on it. Other than Reyes, they agreed that Jon just wasn't as motivated for some of his LHW fights, especially at the end.

So, when people watch the Reyes and gus fight, believing they have the formula to beat Jones figured out, they're not really looking at the big picture.

If Jones actually showed up the way he did against DC, nobody would've touched him.

But he's constantly at odds with his own potential. That's why analyzing him can be tricky, because which Jones are we talking about? There are many versions.


Aside from that, I never said Tom was just big. But his main threat is with his boxing. I don't see him presenting a skillset which Jones hasn't already faced.

Again, Jones has made a career of making boxing dominant styles look amateurish. The distance control combined with the versatility of weapons, it's very difficult for someone with just hands to even get inside to land cleanly. To only look at his boxing to discern his striking threat makes little sense, it's the full package that would be hard to handle. For anyone, outside of a high level striker who's able to challenge his dominance of the kicking game/ range.

Boxing just isn't going to do well against that style. We've seen it all throughout his career.

It comes down to a punchers chance, against one of the least cleanly hit fighters in the sports history.

I agree though, There's a lot of questions about his age. Who really knows how he looks when he comes back.

But overall, people are way too confident in Aspinall and are vastly underrating Jones.

A lot of the problem there is that Jones' worst performances were almost all consecutive or he pissed hot at some point.

I don't think Tom's style matches up poorly. Gus had a ton of success in their first fight using a boxing heavy approach.

And I'll disagree with that being a poor performance for Jones. Both guys looked great and fought their asses off.

We're gonna go back and forth on this though. As a massive fan of Tom's and as someone who wishes we would never hear about Jones again, he's too good to discount at all.

 

[SuperAlly]

I think the issue when people analyze Jones is that they analyze him based on his worst performances.

Santos, Smith, OSP, Reyes, Gus 1.

I think the issue when people analyse Jones poor performances is they don't realise that's basically all of his most recent fights.

 

[SuperAlly]

Tom isn't some special skillset that hasn't been seen before countless times in Jon's career. He has boxing, power on the feet and good grappling.

Jon's career is full of fighters who are predominantly threats with their hands who have one hitter quitter power. And we've established that just a boxing based attack, isn't sufficient to counter his multi dimensional style and complete dominance of the kicking range.

He's one of, if not the least cleanly hit fighter in the sports history at the highest level.

To be confident that someone is just going to go in there and knock him out, no questions asked.

Says that you and others who share that sentiment aren't analyzing things deeply enough.

It could happen, but there's a career full of data that says nobody is gonna have an easy job actually hitting Jon. Much less knocking him out.

That isn't even counting the wrestling threat and how good Tom is off his back. Of which we also have very limited data.

You're too fixated on skillset

It's not just about boxing. It's about the combination of attributes. Tom has great boxing. He is also massive. Bigger than any guy Jon fought at LHW, obviously, but has the combination of speed, length and striking of the guys Jon struggle with, e.g. Reyes and Gus, allied to be much bigger and harder hitting.

It's absolutely ridiculous to dismiss Tom as just a good boxer ignoring everything else Tom has that can cause people problems. He's more than just a good boxer. Get away from being myopically focused on skillset and consider the other attributes that make a dangerous fighter too

 

[SuperAlly]

To be confident that someone is just going to go in there and knock him out, no questions asked.

Says that you and others who share that sentiment aren't analyzing things deeply enough.

Making strawman to defeat arguments people haven't made doesn't make you right

Says more about you and others who argue in such ridiculous ways

Stop the condescending crap in your posts when you are just making shit up

As for not analysing things. Tom isn't just a good boxer. Look at all his othe attributes that will and have troubled fighters. Maybe spend more time doing analysis than condescending to others.