Arthrogenic Muscle Inhibition

[ripskater]

If you watch the video in itself without any preinfo about the subject it sounds like increasing ROM isn't always as good as it's made to be. I've always thought that bigger the ROM the better.

With MAT, and Funk could tell you if I'm saying it right, they believe tightness is the body trying to protect a weakness in some other muscle. So if you strengthen that muscle, it may open up mobility in the other muscle that's tight. I'm not sure if they'd say never stretch, but they look for a weakness instead of just stretching. It's interesting for sure.

 

[KILL KILL]

With MAT, and Funk could tell you if I'm saying it right, they believe tightness is the body trying to protect a weakness in some other muscle. So if you strengthen that muscle, it may open up mobility in the other muscle that's tight. I'm not sure if they'd say never stretch, but they look for a weakness instead of just stretching. It's interesting for sure.

In layman's terms, a muscle over compensates for a weaker one.

 

[ripskater]

In layman's terms, a muscle over compensates for a weaker one.

Right.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

In layman's terms, a muscle over compensates for a weaker one.

Shocking, no?

 

[toonie]

With MAT, and Funk could tell you if I'm saying it right, they believe tightness is the body trying to protect a weakness in some other muscle. So if you strengthen that muscle, it may open up mobility in the other muscle that's tight. I'm not sure if they'd say never stretch, but they look for a weakness instead of just stretching. It's interesting for sure.

In layman's terms, a muscle over compensates for a weaker one.

That's my chiro's approach.

 

[ripskater]

That's my chiro's approach.

There is also ChiroMAT. It's MAT for chiropractors. The two founders split off to take different shares of the marketplace. It's what I was told.

 

[ripskater]

Shocking, no?

Before you guys make too much fun of it, the MAT guys can be pretty knowledgeable. I've met two of them who worked for NBA and NFL teams. One of them gave me some good stuff that a therapist never gave me. No offense to physios though. There's room for all kinds of therapy.

 

[selfcritical]

Ok, so that i can understand a case study, lets take a pretty common injury(that i coincidentally know more about because I have it).

ACL tear typically causes inhibition of the quadriceps and spasm of the hamstrings, which prevents full extension of the leg. Typical pre-surgery protocol involves

-foam rolling and massage for the hamstring to relieve spasm
-passive hamstring stretches
-isometric extension of the leg for quadriceps
-electrostim for the quadriceps to increase activation directly.
-resistance training if the knee is stable

So, what about the pre-surgery regimen would change from a MAT standpoint that would surprise me? And what does that have to do with a misunderstanding of how inhibition works in this circumstance?

 

[ripskater]

Ok, so that i can understand a case study, lets take a pretty common injury(that i coincidentally know more about because I have it).

ACL tear typically causes inhibition of the quadriceps and spasm of the hamstrings, which prevents full extension of the leg. Typical pre-surgery protocol involves

-foam rolling and massage for the hamstring to relieve spasm
-passive hamstring stretches
-isometric extension of the leg for quadriceps
-electrostim for the quadriceps to increase activation directly.
-resistance training if the knee is stable

So, what about the pre-surgery regimen would change from a MAT standpoint that would surprise me? And what does that have to do with a misunderstanding of how inhibition works in this circumstance?

I'm no MAT trained guy. But depending on who you get, they're probably training to correct muscles of the feet, knee and hip. Looking at alignment and testing you for weakness. They have a pretty extensive list of exercises that may be different than your physio may have. But both are trying to accomplish the same thing.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

Before you guys make too much fun of it, the MAT guys can be pretty knowledgeable. I've met two of them who worked for NBA and NFL teams. One of them gave me some good stuff that a therapist never gave me. No offense to physios though. There's room for all kinds of therapy.

Admittedly, I really have no idea what this thread is about.

 

[Eric Brown]

Admittedly, I really have no idea what this thread is about.

Someone making incorrect statements about everyone's knowledge of a subject, then sniveling like a prison bitch just getting broken in when he was told he was wrong.

 

[ripskater]

Someone making incorrect statements about everyone's knowledge of a subject, then sniveling like a prison bitch just getting broken in when he was told he was wrong.

Sherdog's finest right here!

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

Someone making incorrect statements about everyone's knowledge of a subject, then sniveling like a prison bitch just getting broken in when he was told he was wrong.

Shocking, no?

 

[selfcritical]

I'm no MAT trained guy. But depending on who you get, they're probably training to correct muscles of the feet, knee and hip. Looking at alignment and testing you for weakness. They have a pretty extensive list of exercises that may be different than your physio may have. But both are trying to accomplish the same thing.

Could you elaborate there a bit? So in this case, we'd be testing for an underlying weakness, despite there being an obvious one that is causing the immediate weakness- that is, the reason I have a weak quardiceps activation is because I have no intact ACL, and the hamstring overcompensates. Does testing for accessory weaknesses somehow lower the spasm in the hamstring? Or just create an environment where a little bit more quad activation is possible? Or is it that the ACL is not the 'real" cause of the weakness, and some other issue is more causative according to the model?

 

[ripskater]

Could you elaborate there a bit? So in this case, we'd be testing for an underlying weakness, despite there being an obvious one that is causing the immediate weakness- that is, the reason I have a weak quardiceps activation is because I have no intact ACL, and the hamstring overcompensates. Does testing for accessory weaknesses somehow lower the spasm in the hamstring? Or just create an environment where a little bit more quad activation is possible? Or is it that the ACL is not the 'real" cause of the weakness, and some other issue is more causative according to the model?

I'm not sure I can accurately elaborate selfcritical. Well I could try but I'm not MAT trained and I'm not a therapist. Obviously the real cause here is you not having a working ACL. Everything on the damaged leg is probably weak because of that. Feet, lower leg, quad, glutes and up into your hip and core. If there is a way to safely strenghten your weaknesses around the damaged ACL, then that may help the hamstrings not spasm. But the ACL is the cause and MAT trainers would probably acknowledge that also.

 

[KILL KILL]

Before you guys make too much fun of it, the MAT guys can be pretty knowledgeable. I've met two of them who worked for NBA and NFL teams. One of them gave me some good stuff that a therapist never gave me. No offense to physios though. There's room for all kinds of therapy.

No, I believe you fully. I thought this approach was common knowledge. If one muscle is weak or underactive, there is a good chance that the inverse is overactive........If I'm understanding what you're saying.

For instance, lower back pain could be attributed to weak abdominal muscles. It isn't the lower back that is the issue per se, it's the lower back over compensating for the weakness in the abdominal.

 

[KILL KILL]

Could you elaborate there a bit? So in this case, we'd be testing for an underlying weakness, despite there being an obvious one that is causing the immediate weakness- that is, the reason I have a weak quardiceps activation is because I have no intact ACL, and the hamstring overcompensates. Does testing for accessory weaknesses somehow lower the spasm in the hamstring? Or just create an environment where a little bit more quad activation is possible? Or is it that the ACL is not the 'real" cause of the weakness, and some other issue is more causative according to the model?

I think you're in a different situation because your injury is not based on any type of muscular imbalance, you just tore a ligament.

 

[ripskater]

No, I believe you fully. I thought this approach was common knowledge. If one muscle is weak or underactive, there is a good chance that the inverse is overactive........If I'm understanding what you're saying.

For instance, lower back pain could be attributed to weak abdominal muscles. It isn't the lower back that is the issue per se, it's the lower back over compensating for the weakness in the abdominal.

Right. Everyone is trying to do the same thing which is correct the weakness. MAT has their ways which may be different than what you might get at a physical therapy clinic. MAT uses isometrics. Some PT's take MAT courses because MAT has a pretty extensive list of exercises to target certain muscle fibers. I've seen them carry around notebooks full of them.

 

[KILL KILL]

Right. Everyone is trying to do the same thing which is correct the weakness. MAT has their ways which may be different than what you might get at a physical therapy clinic. MAT uses isometrics. Some PT's take MAT courses because MAT has a pretty extensive list of exercises to target certain muscle fibers. I've seen them carry around notebooks full of them.

do you have an example of an exercise that MAT would use that would differ from any standard method?

As a former personal trainer, this is literally the first thing we look for with clients (at least at my old gym). That's what the overhead squat assessment is used for; to identify muscular imbalances.

 

[ripskater]

do you have an example of an exercise that MAT would use that would differ from any standard method?

As a former personal trainer, this is literally the first thing we look for with clients (at least at my old gym). That's what the overhead squat assessment is used for; to identify muscular imbalances.

I can't right now Kill Kill. Yeah there a lot of good ways to assess and look for things. MAT is another good tool you can have in your toolbox. They have courses for trainers I think. I thought about taking it but never did. They may have some youtube examples now. I don't know.