Opinion AOC = Trump of the Left.

[Captain Davis]

Ok, but, just focusing on health care, progressives are the only ones with any policy at all. And their ideas are based on more successful systems that currently exist in other countries. What in your mind is the alternative? Conservatives have no plan. How about we talk about solutions to real problems that actually affect people, instead of pretending illegal immigration which hit a 46 year low in 2017, trannies influencing our kids, and CNN being unfair to Trump are the big issues we need to tackle?

The average annual health care coverage per family is 28k a year, with employers generally paying 2/3rd of that. That's costing folks in lost wages to benefits plus out of pocket expenses before a single visit to the doctor about half of a middle class salary. Never mind if someone actually gets sick. This shouldn't be a partisan debate. Nobody likes insurance companies, nobody likes the pharmaceutical industry, nobody likes not being sure what's covered and what isn't, enrolling in plans that change every year, costs fluctuating, getting bills for months from every doctor that waved at you during a hospital visit, etc, etc. Nobody thinks a $100k+ bill for a little kid's four night stay in the hospital due to extremely common RSV is reasonable. Yet only one side seems to want to address it.

I agree that it’s a flawed system. I’m not for universal healthcare though. I think more competition between health care companies would be a better place to start.

 

[Travis17]

Ok, but, just focusing on health care, progressives are the only ones with any policy at all. And their ideas are based on more successful systems that currently exist in other countries. What in your mind is the alternative? Conservatives have no plan. How about we talk about solutions to real problems that actually affect people, instead of pretending illegal immigration which hit a 46 year low in 2017, trannies influencing our kids, and CNN being unfair to Trump are the big issues we need to tackle?

The ACA is a failure. I think insurance rates have doubled or tripled in the state I'm in since ACA went into effect. Dems lied a lot about the plan, that you wouldn't lose your plan, that you could keep your doctor, that rates wouldn't go up, that you could get a refund if you don't get sick or see a doctor, you'd see some of your insurance money back.

The only thing this plan has that was good was covering preexisting conditions. That's it.

Even if you were to raise taxes to 70% on the wealthy, no loopholes, you still couldn't afford universal healthcare. Not without some serious controls on everything and slashing things like R&D. There is no will to do any of this.

Say what you want about Trump, but if he wanted he could have repealed Obamacare easily. However, he campaigned on replacing it with something better and keeping in preexisting conditions. If another Republican had gotten in, they probably just would have repealed it and let it go back to the way it was. It's a shame with all their complaining about Obamacare for 8 years, they didn't have a better plan waiting in the wings and it would have been foolish to spend 2 years on creating a new plan to replace Obamacare.

 

[Captain Davis]

Well it's disputable whether fetuses are alive but I get the concern for people who firmly believe they are if they treat clearly living people the same. Like if one is a climate deiner and doesn't support single payer you're full of shit cause you're advocating for the death of the living but the life of the fetus.

My position on abortion is that it being legal does not require people to get abortions, it keeps the option of having safe abortions open. Before Roe women were dying en masse from illegal dangerous abortions, they are going to try to abort the pregnancies anyway often with fatal results this is why it was such an issue in the 60s and 70s. This needs to be prevented. People also misunderstand the late term abortion laws to be designed for women 8 months into a pregnancy who just are like "you know, don't feel like having a kid couldn't make this decision until the last second" when in reality these laws are designed for late pregnancy emergencies. But yeah it's pro choice because pro choice doesn't mean pro abortion it means pro choice. Don't know how many people are out there excited about murdering fucking fetuses.

Generally though I'm looking more for the quality of life of the baby and if the baby is going to be put in an economically misreable position, perhaps having the child is a greater evil than aborting it(I firmly believe that it is more evil to bring a kid into a fucked up situation they will have to endure for decades rather than aborting them)? For example was watching a doc that attributed the lowering of crime rates not to draconian broken window law and order policing but rather to it being the time when the pregnancies prevented by the Roe ruling, children born into predominantly negative situations and thus been more likely to commit crimes would have come of age. You are creating more of a troubled class by forcing pregnancies to term women are not prepared to support, and yet pro life people tend to be very anti supporting these sorts of people once they are undisputedly alive. If you are pro life perhaps you should incentivize the behavior you want.

Who are you to decide the quality of life for a baby?

Also, it’s funny how someone who kills a pregnant woman gets charged with a double murder...Hiw is that possible if the fetus is not considered a separate human life?

 

[hillelslovak87]

This right here folks is a terrific example of a AOC lefty white knight. They cannot help themselves but to white knight her and they always mention something about her dancing for some odd reason.

The dancing thing is funny. Maybe you're just humorless. I would also want to deflect if I was ideologically aligned with proud boys and mgtows.

I merely stated that it's odd how you guys thought Trump wanted to make sure the rich wouldn't continue to fuck the common man, and now when someone actually proposes a single policy, you guys load your diapers.

If you think that's white knighting, maybe you're just a snarky dipshit.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The ACA is a failure. I think insurance rates have doubled or tripled in the state I'm in since ACA went into effect. Dems lied a lot about the plan, that you wouldn't lose your plan, that you could keep your doctor, that rates wouldn't go up, that you could get a refund if you don't get sick or see a doctor, you'd see some of your insurance money back.

The only thing this plan has that was good was covering preexisting conditions. That's it.

Even if you were to raise taxes to 70% on the wealthy, no loopholes, you still couldn't afford universal healthcare. Not without some serious controls on everything and slashing things like R&D.

Are you in a state whose elected officials refused to take premium easement money from the federal government for the ACA?

 

[Travis17]

Yes cite fox news very good. Checkmate. Tucker occasingly does good pieces and all but climate denial is treasonous horse shit.

It doesn't matter what channel it's on. What matters is the content. Just like you shouldn't judge someone by the color of their skin.

Tucker asked Bill Nye the science guy to provide evidence that climate change was man made, and if so how much of the current change has been man made. He couldn't do it. Just like you can't. You reminded me of this interview.

 

[ferrisjso]

Who are you to decide the quality of life for a baby?

Also, it’s funny how someone who kills a pregnant woman gets charged with a double murder...Hiw is that possible if the fetus is not considered a separate human life?

Lot of incorrect laws, something being legal or illegal doesn't make it correct. Think an argument for that existing could be to deter crazy so's from murdering their girlfriend or wife who wants to keep the baby. Anyway not saying that definition is wrong, it's debatable especially later on( life at conception I don't think is though), just saying the way people treat the baby after it comes out makes me not value their input on this issue.

I mean objective standards of quality of life? Maybe the fact the woman isn't in a situation where they can have a kid if they want to abort one after the beginning?

 

[ferrisjso]

It doesn't matter what channel it's on. What matters is the content. Just like you shouldn't judge someone by the color of their skin.

Tucker asked Bill Nye the science guy to provide evidence that climate change was man made, and if so how much of the current change has been man made. He couldn't do it. Just like you can't. You reminded me of this interview.

I judge CNN and MSNBC content with a different but still very skeptical eye because all of these networks have agenda's.

There is no need to name proof, it's beyond a reasonable doubt. You are a criminal.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Simply stated, as someone who took a job mainly for benefits and have paid my fair share of taxes for over 30 years - I’m not going to continue to pay my share AND fit the bill for deadbeats. If everyone is paying for it, what’s the motivation for deadbeats to even try to be a contributor?

We already pay for people who can't pay (medicaid, medicare, emergency rooms, insurance plans, etc). Finding the most efficient way to cover everyone and driving down costs should be the goal. But, I would think someone in your situation could be exempt from such a tax since you've earned the benefit through service. Certainly worth considering.

Also, in reference to "deadbeats", remember that the market is a competition. Somebody has to be at the rear, and there will never be enough jobs to employ everyone. Someone who wants a job gets the opportunity when someone else tries to skate, and the least motivated, least capable people do the shitty jobs that we need done. The market relies on losers as much as it does winners, my friend. Talk to me about deadbeats when we have more jobs than people to fill them.

 

[Travis17]

Are you in a state whose elected officials refused to take premium easement money from the federal government for the ACA?

I don't know. Is there a list somewhere googling it, just seemed to get results about Medicaid. All I know is plans that use to be about $300 a month and the best plans, are about $1000 and there are even plans higher than this around $1200-1500 rate.

There are tax credits if your income is low, but I don't think that's a good solution as if you make more than about $50k a year you get nothing. Might be slightly higher for couples, but it just seems like it would be easy to go over that household income for couple.

 

[Travis17]

There is no need to name proof, it's beyond a reasonable doubt. You are a criminal.

So post some evidence or shut up.

 

[franklinstower]

It's not just the cable news. It's the entire media establishment. Television and movies. It's the tech industry. It's in our education. It's everywhere.

Progressive policies are absurd. You can't afford universal health care without taxing everyone much, much higher. To the point that $15 an hour will still not be enough to afford to live comfortably. Getting out of wars? Last I checked the left was arguing how we need to stay in Syria, because Trump announced we're leaving. Obama also overthrew Gaddafi in Libya, which led to the rebel leaders taking over and beginning to enslave the populace. You hear the media complaining about that, or the government talking about intervening to free all those slaves in Libya from rebel leaders we empowered? Hell no. Green deal? So we need to pay even more in taxes so other countries pollute less? Like a protection racket? We still have no idea whether humanity is having an impact on the climate, and if so, how much is it changing it. Expanding social security? LOL more taxes. How about people be responsible and set up their own retirement plans out of their paychecks instead of having the government do it for you and fail at it?

Progressive policies are a joke. It's about manipulating people's natural instinct and good will to help each other into irresponsible self-destruction.

"The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." -Winston Churchill

Basically we'll all be living in poverty and like third worlders under socialism, with a tiny amount of middle managers, and of course the top 1% that control 99% of the wealth.

I disagree with almost everything you said but don't care enough to debate it. The only point I think is worth correcting you on is universal health care.

It will cost americans LESS money to implement universal health care than we currently spend on private health care. Yes we will pay more in taxes for that care, but it will be LESS than the premiums we are already paying for private insurance and everyone will be covered. Universal Health Care will save people money not cost people more money. There is no downside to this for me.

I would personally rather pay a bit more (even though it won't be the case) to make certain that no one goes without care. This is because of my Christianity which commands me to ensure that no one goes without the care they need.

Government run health care is the ONLY way to ensure that no one is left out in the cold on this important issue.

 

[ferrisjso]

So post some evidence or shut up.

Average tempatures have increased, burning carbon makes the greenhouse effect.

I don't need to post evidence, this is an argument that it's embarrassing is even being had.

 

[Travis17]

It will cost americans LESS money to implement universal health care than we currently spend on private health care. Yes we will pay more in taxes for that care, but it will be LESS than the premiums we are already paying for private insurance and everyone will be covered. Universal Health Care will save people money not cost people more money. There is no downside to this for me.

Yeah just like how rates weren't suppose to go up with Obamacare right?

 

[Travis17]

Average tempatures have increased, burning carbon makes the greenhouse effect.

I don't need to post evidence, this is an argument that it's embarrassing is even being had.

Correlation doesn't mean causation.

 

[Captain Davis]

We already pay for people who can't pay (medicaid, medicare, emergency rooms, insurance plans, etc). Finding the most efficient way to cover everyone and driving down costs should be the goal. But, I would think someone in your situation could be exempt from such a tax since you've earned the benefit through service. Certainly worth considering.

Also, in reference to "deadbeats", remember that the market is a competition. Somebody has to be at the rear, and there will never be enough jobs to employ everyone. Someone who wants a job gets the opportunity when someone else tries to skate, and the least motivated, least capable people do the shitty jobs that we need done. The market relies on losers as much as it does winners, my friend. Talk to me about deadbeats when we have more jobs than people to fill them.

Right. We already pay too much in taxes. Fuck paying more for people who aren’t motivated to get out of their situation. My idea of helping people doesn’t include penalizing others. Especially the ones who abtially contribute the most to society.

My idea would be competition across state lines with insurance companies. The competition will drive down costs.

I’ll never be ok with robbing the willing while rewarding the lazy.

And there are jobs out there. They may not be desirable, but they are out there.

 

[franklinstower]

Yeah just like how rates weren't suppose to go up with Obamacare right?

Obama has nothing to do with this. He is no longer president. I was also disappointed with Obama.

I am getting my numbers from a Koch brothers funded study that showed UHC would cost less than what we currently have while covering more people. It makes sense when no one is making profits off of premiums and when there are not thousands of insurance forms and companies all paying people to coordinate with health care providers who are paying those people salaries to do so also. The currents system is massively wasteful.

The super wealthy will also have the options of paying private doctors for added health care or whatever else they want.

 

[Captain Davis]

Yeah just like how rates weren't suppose to go up with Obamacare right?

And we can keep our doctors if we like them.

ACA is bullshit made to help a small percentage of people while punishing others. The framer of the plan even admitted it.

 

[sickc0d3r]

The ACA is a failure. I think insurance rates have doubled or tripled in the state I'm in since ACA went into effect. Dems lied a lot about the plan, that you wouldn't lose your plan, that you could keep your doctor, that rates wouldn't go up, that you could get a refund if you don't get sick or see a doctor, you'd see some of your insurance money back.

The only thing this plan has that was good was covering preexisting conditions. That's it.

Even if you were to raise taxes to 70% on the wealthy, no loopholes, you still couldn't afford universal healthcare. Not without some serious controls on everything and slashing things like R&D. There is no will to do any of this.

Say what you want about Trump, but if he wanted he could have repealed Obamacare easily. However, he campaigned on replacing it with something better and keeping in preexisting conditions. If another Republican had gotten in, they probably just would have repealed it and let it go back to the way it was. It's a shame with all their complaining about Obamacare for 8 years, they didn't have a better plan waiting in the wings and it would have been foolish to spend 2 years on creating a new plan to replace Obamacare.

Of course everyone would have to pay into a single payer system, or we'd have to have an opt-in or out public option. But again, we're paying half a middle class salary per year for coverage now. My guess is most people would save money in a single payer system. I've yet to see a serious analysis on the cost versus today's system, though.

Health care has been rising for decades, the ACA didn't accelerate that process, I believe studies have shown it actually slowed the rate of rising costs. And covering people with pre-existing conditions is a pretty big deal. It's the main reason republicans have come up with zero alternatives. You can't cover everyone without everyone buying in, and they know it. People were going bankrupt before and the republicans can't go back to that. We need to move forward by improving on the aca or scrapping it and replacing it with something better.

 

[Travis17]

Obama has nothing to do with this. He is no longer president. I was also disappointed with Obama.

I am getting my numbers from a Koch brothers funded study that showed UHC would cost less than what we currently have while covering more people. It makes sense when no one is making profits off of premiums and when there are not thousands of insurance forms and companies all paying people to coordinate with health care providers who are paying those people salaries to do so also. The currents system is massively wasteful.

The super wealthy will also have the options of paying private doctors for added health care or whatever else they want.

Yeah I'm sure it all makes sense in theory. My point was in theory the ACA should have caused insurance rates to drop, but it didn't. Rates increased by a lot, even though more people were being covered. It just doesn't work, and the government is known for its efficiency when it comes to this stuff.

Hell in theory, we should socialize car insurance as well. Should be cheaper without these companies earning profit, right? It never works in reality though.