Anybody have insight on the ATOS Strength and Conditioning Program?

[gorillajump]

Steroids are cheaper than creatine in Brazil. And they're not that expensive here with a prescription, they've been generic for years. They're only expensive if you get them under the table from some dude at the gym, and I doubt that's a problem Atos has.

I'm looking at the costs of steroids beyond just how much they cost for one person to hand them over. There's a bit of steroid coaching that needs to be done (or should be done) to get the right blends for the right person, there's the probable ligament/tendon injuries and there's the long term costs if something goes wrong/the police get caught.

It's not that cheap to do steroids. I kind of wish it was and that we'd just be less hypocritical about it, but I honestly don't think too many people in BJJ are doing it. Look at how uneducated most high end BJJ players are about S&C, who's a rapist and who's not, business tactics/success and so on.

You're telling me that a group of people who often have trouble operating outside an environment that doesn't have padded floors, someone right there to fight and so on will successfully use and hide steroid use from all kinds of training partners/coaches/random people?

 

[GiBurns]

Depends on the gear you run but you can get Tren and Test for dirt cheap prices if you know where to look. Legit GH is going to be harder to find at a low price but definitely not impossible.

There are plenty of other guys that would make a better example than Keenan. Nothing about his physique to me screams AAS use. Guys been lifting for a few years and is not an awkward teenage anymore.

Don't want to mention any names (got banned on Sherdog last time for saying Wanderlei was on steroids during his Pride run) but anyone who is 190lb+ carrying a large amount of muscle in BJJ with incredibly low bf, redness, and acne covered backs would be a red flag for me regarding use.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I'm looking at the costs of steroids beyond just how much they cost for one person to hand them over. There's a bit of steroid coaching that needs to be done (or should be done) to get the right blends for the right person, there's the probable ligament/tendon injuries and there's the long term costs if something goes wrong/the police get caught.

It's not that cheap to do steroids. I kind of wish it was and that we'd just be less hypocritical about it, but I honestly don't think too many people in BJJ are doing it. Look at how uneducated most high end BJJ players are about S&C, who's a rapist and who's not, business tactics/success and so on.

You're telling me that a group of people who often have trouble operating outside an environment that doesn't have padded floors, someone right there to fight and so on will successfully use and hide steroid use from all kinds of training partners/coaches/random people?

I don't think they hide it, and I think most top level guys are ingrained enough in athletic culture that they learn how to use relatively safely. I also don't think most top guys are really uneducated about S&C. Atos certainly isn't. And again, I highly doubt what they're doing is illegal. My guess would be that they get their drugs from a legit source, probably an American doctor. Maybe they're running them up from Brazil but I doubt it.

 

[mat worm]

How much money do you people think there is in jiu jitsu?

Think there's room in the typical high level BJJ player's budget for rent, food, family, plane tickets, awful hotel rooms, insurance for car/health, coaching, minimal social gifts/gatherings and steroids? That doesn't include the time and money lost from recovering from injuries, having plans fall through and random costs of life.

There's not that much money in this sport - despite whatever LI and Avellan brothers tell you.

The biggest reason why I doubt that many people in BJJ are on steroids all the time is because it's somewhat expensive to keep doing that - and most high level players can't afford that. This sport isn't a moneymaker for most people, even at the top.

There might not be a lot of money in BJJ and that is why they will do steroids. If they don't create a big name for themselves, how will they make any money at all. All the more reason for them to do it. Think of it this way a very good guy who has no titles will typically make less than the guy with all the titles right? If the difference between making money on your school and getting seminars are steroid, then it would only make sense to do it. Let's take professional athletes for instance. A good linebacker let's say will make $2 million and an elite linebacker makes $5mil. Now if their instincts, technique, mental makeup, etc. are the same then it would come down to physical attributes. Things like speed, quickness, power, expolision and so on an so forth. All these physical attributes are helped by PED's. If the difference between use and non use is $3mil in my example, then of course you would think of using too. I'm using the NFL as an example, but we all know BJJ the market is even more competitive in terms of money.

 

[magick]

I'm looking at the costs of steroids beyond just how much they cost for one person to hand them over. There's a bit of steroid coaching that needs to be done (or should be done) to get the right blends for the right person, there's the probable ligament/tendon injuries and there's the long term costs if something goes wrong/the police get caught.

It's not that cheap to do steroids. I kind of wish it was and that we'd just be less hypocritical about it, but I honestly don't think too many people in BJJ are doing it. Look at how uneducated most high end BJJ players are about S&C, who's a rapist and who's not, business tactics/success and so on.

You're telling me that a group of people who often have trouble operating outside an environment that doesn't have padded floors, someone right there to fight and so on will successfully use and hide steroid use from all kinds of training partners/coaches/random people?

I would love to hear you describe the amateur and pro-BBers who use steroids on a regular basis. Are they really that much richer and more intelligent than BJJ folks?

 

[gorillajump]

I would love to hear you describe the amateur and pro-BBers who use steroids on a regular basis. Are they really that much richer and more intelligent than BJJ folks?

Most of the amateur and pro bodybuilders have real world jobs.

And plenty of them wreck their bodies doing steroids or weirder shit (thinking of the oil injections).

 

[nefti]

rickson gracie must be on roids, i mean look at his figure at his age. Look at his musculature

 

[JohnSouth]

These guys have a huge level of freedom in what they can do. Sleep for 10+ hours a day, eat as much as necessary, etc. Professional athletes the world over manage to do this same stuff without issue.

Frankly, if any profession was in the position to radically change their physique, it'd be a professional athlete, PED's or not. And these guys undoubtedly train like professionals.

How you gonna sleep when you got insomnia from overtraining? It's not always so simple. I know BJJ pays a ton so none of them have to make money.

Eating helps a little but with no recovery time and shot hormones it won't happen.

I train with people who are training every day for competitions. I am by far the laziest and have the better physique and probably the strongest since I take days off when I'm tired and weight trained for years.

They are mostly pudgy or skinny from BJJ, BJJ does not build buff bodies, it builds average looking but extremely useful bodies.

MMA fighters are the same, they tend to look washed out or a little pudgy from all the cortisol.

 

[Toothless King]

How you gonna sleep when you got insomnia from overtraining? It's not always so simple. I know BJJ pays a ton so none of them have to make money.

Eating helps a little but with no recovery time and shot hormones it won't happen.

I train with people who are training every day for competitions. I am by far the laziest and have the better physique and probably the strongest since I take days off when I'm tired and weight trained for years.

They are mostly pudgy or skinny from BJJ, BJJ does not build buff bodies, it builds average looking but extremely useful bodies.

MMA fighters are the same, they tend to look washed out or a little pudgy from all the cortisol.

 

[JohnSouth]

Where is Weidman and Barnette?

Kinda selective doncha think?

Guarantee you those were big guys that got smaller not smaller guys who got bigger.

And the first picture is a prime example of what I'm talking about, skinny guy.

The middle picture we are going to blame on African genetics.

Bader not a big guy, for all the training he does remarkably smooth and small especially in the arms, I have more muscle training 3x a week and hitting the gym once in a while.

Just goes to show how this cardio grinds big guys down into smaller, relatively smooth guys.

Guarantee any one of them would be bigger and more muscular if they knocked off the BJJ/MMA training and stuck to weights.

Would not surprise me one bit if any of them were on steroids to fight the wasting and increase recovery.

 

[Toothless King]

Where is Weidman and Barnette?

Kinda selective doncha think?

as selective as picking Keenan, Rolando, and Galvao?

Guarantee you those were big guys that got smaller not smaller guys who got bigger.

I don't see your point. there are a ton of UFC guys go back and forth between weight classes.

unlike UFC fighters, a lot of BJJ stars made their mark in BJJ community since they were teenagers. so, is it a big surprise when they go up in weigh class as they are getting out of their teenage years to adulthood?

 

[JohnSouth]

as selective as picking Keenan, Rolando, and Galvao?


I don't see your point. there are a ton of UFC guys go back and forth between weight classes.

unlike UFC fighters, a lot of BJJ stars made their mark in BJJ community since they were teenagers. so, is it a big surprise when they go up in weigh class as they are getting out of their teenage years to adulthood?

You're going in circles.

Some guys are from Brazil where steroids are legal, others know of that culture.

It's not a big deal to them as to you and easy to get away with. No reason not to.

It's not a big deal to me, I used them to look good in a shirt, so what?

Could I do it naturally? Yeah but I was impatient.

These guys are very patient....right?

Lot of the cyclist guys use it and they look like toothpicks.

 

[Toothless King]

You're going in circles.

Some guys are from Brazil where steroids are legal, others know of that culture.

It's not a big deal to them as to you and easy to get away with. No reason not to.

It's not a big deal to me, I used them to look good in a shirt, so what?

Could I do it naturally? Yeah but I was impatient.

These guys are very patient....right?

Lot of the cyclist guys use it and they look like toothpicks.

huh? you are going off base there.

The last 16 pages of this thread have been nothing but shit talk about Atos/AOJ because their top competitors look like body builders, therefore, they must be on steroid, and then i posted pictures of jacked UFC fighters to prove my point that you don't have to be a body builder to look almost like one.

 

[JohnSouth]

huh? you are going off base there.

The last 16 pages of this thread have been nothing but shit talk about Atos/AOJ because their top competitors look like body builders, therefore, they must be on steroid, and then i posted pictures of jacked UFC fighters to prove my point that you don't have to be a body builder to look almost like one.

Jiu-Jitsu fighters from Brazil are known to use steroids freely so I don't know what's so hard to believe.

If you come from that culture and everyone at your gym is on them I think you'd be on them too if you want to keep up.

UFC fighters use them too as do guys at the local Gold's so I don't know what you proved.

You gonna say something about testing next? haha

 

[Toothless King]

Jiu-Jitsu fighters from Brazil are known to use steroids freely so I don't know what's so hard to believe.

If you come from that culture and everyone at your gym is on them I think you'd be on them too if you want to keep up.

UFC fighters use them too as do guys at the local Gold's so I don't know what you proved.

You gonna say something about testing next? haha

i'd take dope testing over blatant accusation of steroid use base on a picture

 

[fighterforlife]

You're going in circles.

Some guys are from Brazil where steroids are legal, others know of that culture.

It's not a big deal to them as to you and easy to get away with. No reason not to.

It's not a big deal to me, I used them to look good in a shirt, so what?

Could I do it naturally? Yeah but I was impatient.

These guys are very patient....right?

Lot of the cyclist guys use it and they look like toothpicks.

Are you conflating different types of performance enhancing drugs?

 

[KILL KILL]

Maybe they all started lifting weights and eating more?

 

[mtruitt76]

A kid in the prime of his life training full time and eating right is going to have a massive physical transformation.

Full time athletes in combat sports like BJJ and MMA often use Testosterone, HGH, IGF-1 and a host of other PEDs. There are no actual statistics on how many and how much, but lets be honest.

I doubt anybody besides possible some of the top UFC fighters could even afford HGH and IGF-1. Those are very expensive drugs and legitimate HGH is not easy to obtain.

 

[the heed]

I doubt anybody besides possible some of the top UFC fighters could even afford HGH and IGF-1. Those are very expensive drugs and legitimate HGH is not easy to obtain.

In Brazil it is a bit more affordable, however guys with sponsorship can really afford them.

You are correct, they are expensive. Even low grade roids aren't cheap to do a full circle. And a lot of the BJJ pros in the US aren't making enough money to afford performance enhancing drugs. I'm sure some do, but I just can't see the number being that high in the US.

 

[Calibur]

I'm really enjoying this thread. Great discussion. Despite being involved in MMA and bjj for almost 15 years, steroids are something I have no first or even second hand ecperience with.