American scolastic folkstyle wrestling = a dying sport

[Dirty Holt]

just imagine if we played soccer with different rules in the scholastic system...all thru highschool and college your soccer rules would be wildly DIFFERENT than all the other soccer in the world and when you get out of school you have to convert to international soccer...it would handicap our athletes

The rules between highschool, NCAA, NBA, are all different than those of Olympic basketball. How is it possible that America still dominates Olympic basketball? Surely it must hamper them so much that we get consistently beaten by other countries right?

 

[-guerilla-]

The rules between highschool, NCAA, NBA, are all different than those of Olympic basketball. How is it possible that America still dominates Olympic basketball? Surely it must hamper them so much that we get consistently beaten by other countries right?

nice to see you back....dirty

It's a very simple answer to a very simple question as the rules are not that different in the sports you've named whereas the difference between folkstyle and Freestyle Wrestling is massive

You being a wrestler of course should be fully aware of this and are just asking a question to mock my point

As you well know the biggest difference between International and folkstyle wrestling is the scoring and most of the scoring occurs in the groundwork section which is the most radically different of all

Of course you know all this already so I'm just explaining it to those reading the thread who might not understand like you do

Sure is a shame you guys can't accept the fact that we are hurting our wrestlers by making them switch styles

When wrestling gets dropped permanently from the Olympics maybe you dumbasses will remember the warnings I gave you... maybe you won't...

either way I will be comfortable in that I at least pointed out the problem and did everything I could to rectify it

As one can easily see the differences in most sports are very subtle...only a couple feet of play Space, something like that...

not an inherent difference in scoring!!



Meanwhile in wrestling heres a silly short video that covers about 1/16th of the differences



Of course you ALREADY know all this so asking the question was just an attempt to mock my post

C'mon dirty...you can do better than that!!!

 

[-guerilla-]

 

[jack36767]

Do high school kids today even play sports to get some exercise, have fun, be social, join a team, and have the joy of winning an honest competition?

Or, are high school athletics focused to get kids scholarships into colleges?

Since so many parents see sports as an "investment" to get their son/daughter a "full ride" to college (which is too darn expensive), they are not going to sign up their child for wrestling.

Why?

9.9 scholarships only.

This, people don’t realize the effects of over specializing. And the after shocks

 

[jack36767]

As I said previously, part of the issue is moderation, or lack thereof. If I were a moderator here, I would've given this guerilla guy a 2 week cooling off period for posting videos of people actually competing and mocking them- if not an outright ban. I'm not really clear if these forums are actually moderated though, or who does it.

At least Dan The Wolfman was entertaining

I don’t mind him putting in some matches. They are a matter of public record and I said my real name. My gripe was him leaving out multiple other matches in the same search stream that invalidated his criticisms. Hence why I made sure to look through ALL of his results.

It’s hard to discuss an issue when one side leaves out all inconvenient evidence.

 

[jack36767]

The rules between highschool, NCAA, NBA, are all different than those of Olympic basketball. How is it possible that America still dominates Olympic basketball? Surely it must hamper them so much that we get consistently beaten by other countries right?

Didn’t you coach all 3 styles in the state with over 25,000 and one division wrestlers with extremely solid to good results locally and nationally in addition to your personal accomplishments?

Isn’t the majority of scoring at the high school and above levels in freestyle and folk from single legs and short offense? Not may work or parr terre?

*elite high school

 

[-guerilla-]

I don’t mind him putting in some matches. They are a matter of public record and I said my real name. My gripe was him leaving out multiple other matches in the same search stream that invalidated his criticisms. Hence why I made sure to look through ALL of his results.

It’s hard to discuss an issue when one side leaves out all inconvenient evidence.

Why dont YOU post your best performances...

You can post videos also

I have NEVER done or said ANYTHING on sherdog that was even SLIGHTLY improper

Im part of the .01 percent of shedoggers who use their real name and have a real verifiable history

I make bold agressive threads that upset a tiny handful of traditionalists and profit minded business types

I have never and will never insult anyone untill they are rude to me first...

Thats just fair play 101

I have an agenda

I admit it

 

[-guerilla-]

Didn’t you coach all 3 styles in the state with over 25,000 and one division wrestlers with extremely solid to good results locally and nationally in addition to your personal accomplishments?

Isn’t the majority of scoring at the high school and above levels in freestyle and folk from single legs and short offense? Not may work or parr terre?

*elite high school

The majority of scoring is started from the feet

The majority of points are earned on the mat

There are way more turns, exposures, roll thrus, reversals and escapes than takedowns and pushouts

Even in freestyle

 

[jack36767]

As I said previously, part of the issue is moderation, or lack thereof. If I were a moderator here, I would've given this guerilla guy a 2 week cooling off period for posting videos of people actually competing and mocking them- if not an outright ban. I'm not really clear if these forums are actually moderated though, or who does it.

At least Dan The Wolfman was entertaining

Also, wouldn’t admitting that one has left out relevant evidence for an agenda invalidate their point?

 

[-guerilla-]

Also, wouldn’t admitting that one has left out relevant evidence for an agenda invalidate their point?

My agenda is to try to save the sport of wrestling from The Chopping Block that it's currently on

Most people think it has been permanently reinstated in the Olympics but it has NOT

wrestling is only in the Olympics for the next two cycles

I didn't omit any evidence in order to substantiate my agenda

That's because no evidence exists that folk style wrestling diluting our International practice is good for our eventual success in international wrestling

I can remember Jeff blatnick (RIP) saying
the fact that we practice folkstyle instead of international hurts us in the Olympics

Just because I'm the one that posted it on Sherdog doesn't mean I'm the one that came up with the theory

As a young man starting in the sport I would stay up till 4 in the morning to record USA versus Iran on ESPN2 on my old VCR

I just dusted off one of the tapes were Jeff blatnik said several times during the broadcast (as we were getting STOMPED by IRAN)

"the reason American wrestlers don't perform at their best in international competition is because we practice a unique style of wrestling called Folk Style and that handicaps are wrestlers in international competition"

So you can bitch moan and cry baby all you want about me but remember....
you're dissing Jeff blatnick also...

Listen to Jeff blatnick commentate those events

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Blatnick

 

[jack36767]

My agenda is to try to save the sport of wrestling from The Chopping Block that it's currently on

Most people think it has been permanently reinstated in the Olympics but it has NOT

wrestling is only in the Olympics for the next two cycles

I didn't omit any evidence in order to substantiate my agenda

That's because no evidence exists that folk style wrestling diluting our International practice is good for our eventual success in international wrestling

I can remember Jeff blatnick (RIP) saying
the fact that we practice folkstyle instead of international hurts us in the Olympics

Just because I'm the one that posted it on Sherdog doesn't mean I'm the one that came up with the theory

As a young man starting in the sport I would stay up till 4 in the morning to record USA versus Iran on ESPN2 on my old VCR

I just dusted off one of the tapes were Jeff blatnik said several times during the broadcast (as we were getting STOMPED by IRAN)

"the reason American wrestlers don't perform at their best in international competition is because we practice a unique style of wrestling called Folk Style and that handicaps are wrestlers in international competition"

So you can bitch moan and cry baby all you want about me but remember....
you're dissing Jeff blatnick also...

Listen to Jeff blatnick commentate those events

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Blatnick

Oh my god.. this really is about you wanting validation for your lack of success and wanting to prove your system was “superior”. Jesus.

 

[SandisLL]

NBA and NHL is different thing; their existence was known fact worldwide even 25 and more years ago. Even in countries, where almost none knew that MMA exists and where USA are located.
Thanks to great payments and lucrative prestige to play in NHL or NBA, US attracts best players from all the world. Level in NHL and NBA is the best in world and high media and betting, advertisemets industries attention will keep popularity in highest levels for at least next half of century, maybe 100 years or more.

Scholastic wrestling, i don't know american wrestling, but if it is usable in MMA, then never will die.

 

[Dirty Holt]

As you well know the biggest difference between International and folkstyle wrestling is the scoring and most of the scoring occurs in the groundwork section which is the most radically different of all

Of course you know all this already so I'm just explaining it to those reading the thread who might not understand like you do
Of course you ALREADY know all this so asking the question was just an attempt to mock my post

C'mon dirty...you can do better than that!!!

Scoring from neutral scored 1078 points in last years world championships. Groundwork scored 272. The same techniques that work in both styles scored nearly 4x more than the ones that are different. Even double leg takedowns, the very first move you learn in either style, just by themselves scored more than every groundwork point put up on the board.

https://therudis.com/rudis-wrestling-podcast-46-world-championships-scoring/

 

[-guerilla-]

Scoring from neutral scored 1078 points in last years world championships. Groundwork scored 272. The same techniques that work in both styles scored nearly 4x more than the ones that are different. Even double leg takedowns, the very first move you learn in either style, just by themselves scored more than every groundwork point put up on the board.

https://therudis.com/rudis-wrestling-podcast-46-world-championships-scoring/

Bro...that is a MICROSCOPE sample of top level international freestyle wrestling

This statistic is tru in the highest levels of international freestyle wrestling

Everyone knows most points are scored in offensive takedowns in freestyle...thats why is more exciting to watch than folk and Greco

This thread is about folkstyle and primarily about highschool wrestlers just starting in the sport

When you look at the compendium of American wrestling most of it is youth folkstyle and most of the scoring is done on the mat!

Heres the oridional question so eloquently put by the discount elvis himself...

"Isn’t the majority of scoring at the high school and above levels in freestyle and folk from single legs and short offense? Not may work or parr terre?"
(Hard to extrapolate from THAT abortion)
so im not 100% certain WTF the discount elvis was prattling about....

Remember the thread title??
American scolastic folkstyle wrestling = a dying sport

Every single one of us started in youth folkstyle and heard our coaches say over and over that most scoring is done on the mat

 

[-guerilla-]

NBA and NHL is different thing; their existence was known fact worldwide even 25 and more years ago. Even in countries, where almost none knew that MMA exists and where USA are located.
Thanks to great payments and lucrative prestige to play in NHL or NBA, US attracts best players from all the world. Level in NHL and NBA is the best in world and high media and betting, advertisemets industries attention will keep popularity in highest levels for at least next half of century, maybe 100 years or more.

Scholastic wrestling, i don't know american wrestling, but if it is usable in MMA, then never will die.

It will die...

Just like BJJ dominatance was booted out of MMA

so shall wrestlings current run come to an end

To be replaced by a hybred system that incorporates what is useful and removes what is detrimental from BOTH grappling SPORTS

https://philosiblog.com/2014/03/20/...rd-what-is-not-add-what-is-uniquely-your-own/

Wrestling will continue to exist but only as a martial art languishing away in the stripmalls of small town America...just like sport BJJ

I blame the commercialism of the Olympic games, American fear of LIABILITY/PC inclusion mania and the defunding of the public school system

That on top of the American predilection to invent our own unique VERSION of international sports instead of ADOPTING the established style
(Just like kickboxing)

 

[jack36767]

Wait, did a person just try to invalidate data from the actual senior world championships?

Isn’t his whole point about winning the senior level? Yet the person wants to ignore inconvenient data
Does that person realize those stats hold across the board the last 5 years at least?

One would expect that person to just admit they don’t want to help wrestling. They just want Folkstyle to die because if wrestling just gets incorporated like he hopes. He no longer is a mediocre Kentucky Folky coach

 

[Fluffernutter]

This, people don’t realize the effects of over specializing. And the after shocks

Plus, since the rise of over-specializing in sports at such an early age, I'm seeing injuries I have never seen before.

I'm seeing middle schoolers with torn ACLs. I'm seeing young teens with rotator cuff issues.

When wrestlers ask me what will make them better, I usually tell them to join the cross country team during the fall, rather than wrestle 12 months a year.

If you want to be better at hockey, play one season of soccer.
If you want to be better at baseball, play one season of lacrosse.

year round specializing is hurting developing bodies.

 

[-guerilla-]

Wait, did a person just try to invalidate data from the actual senior world championships?

Isn’t his whole point about winning the senior level? Yet the person wants to ignore inconvenient data
Does that person realize those stats hold across the board the last 5 years at least?

One would expect that person to just admit they don’t want to help wrestling. They just want Folkstyle to die because if wrestling just gets incorporated like he hopes. He no longer is a mediocre Kentucky Folky coach

Thought u were "done" with me...lol

Have ur mom read the title of the thread to you

American scolastic folkstyle wrestling = a dying sport

 

[-guerilla-]

Plus, since the rise of over-specializing in sports at such an early age, I'm seeing injuries I have never seen before.

I'm seeing middle schoolers with torn ACLs. I'm seeing young teens with rotator cuff issues.

When wrestlers ask me what will make them better, I usually tell them to join the cross country team during the fall, rather than wrestle 12 months a year.

If you want to be better at hockey, play one season of soccer.
If you want to be better at baseball, play one season of lacrosse.

year round specializing is hurting developing bodies.

I think you're largely correct when you consider sports like volleyball where someone is doing a repetitive motion over and over and over again

however wrestling spreads the damage out across your entire body and is thus one of the safest sports that a young person can engage in

you have a point I just think wrestling is exceptionally safe and has a much lower incidence of serious injury than most sports

Especially folkstyle wrestling as its been NERFED down to a pale anemic representation of the combat sport it once was

Any decent folkstyle coach knows that the vast majority of scoring occurs on the mat and thus the kids spend the vast majority of their time practicing mat wrestling which is the safest of all

 

[-guerilla-]

Wait, did a person just try to invalidate data from the actual senior world championships?

Isn’t his whole point about winning the senior level? Yet the person wants to ignore inconvenient data
Does that person realize those stats hold across the board the last 5 years at least?

One would expect that person to just admit they don’t want to help wrestling. They just want Folkstyle to die because if wrestling just gets incorporated like he hopes. He no longer is a mediocre Kentucky Folky coach

Its actually something im not 100% certain about but am comfortable enough to suggest that across the ENTIRE compendium of wrestling most scoring is done on the mat

In folkstyle its a landslide