American Sambo question - Amir

[FWTG]

Among the elite of each respective style, yes.

Sambo
1.) Fedor has only missed one sub and that was against a 7'2'' 360 pound Korean.
2.) Fujii hasn't missed any that I recall. She's also number 1 PFP and undefeated like Fedor. She won by submission 12 out of 15 fights.
3.) Amir didn't miss any in his short, but potentially promising career.

BJJ
1.) Jacare missed numerous sub attempts. In his fight with Mayhem alone he had numerous chances to sub him. There is even a picture of Mayhem laughing at his leg lock attempt.

2.) Arona has missed numerous sub attempts as well. The fight against Rampage comes to mind or even his LnP against Fedor. In fact, Fedor reversed Arona from mount many a time. Arona's also lucky RINGS didn't allow GnP.

3.) Pe de Pano couldn't even sub Arlovski on the ground. Arlovski had no problem defending on the ground and as soon as Herb-A-Dean stepped away he GnPed PDP to hell.

Atr you fucking kidding me? So Amir and Fedor only went for 1 sub once in all their fights they wpn bysub? Get real. Your an idiot.

 

[UrbanSavage**]

Among the elite of each respective style, yes.

Sambo
1.) Fedor has only missed one sub and that was against a 7'2'' 360 pound Korean.
2.) Fujii hasn't missed any that I recall. She's also number 1 PFP and undefeated like Fedor. She won by submission 12 out of 15 fights.
3.) Amir didn't miss any in his short, but potentially promising career.

BJJ
1.) Jacare missed numerous sub attempts. In his fight with Mayhem alone he had numerous chances to sub him. There is even a picture of Mayhem laughing at his leg lock attempt.

2.) Arona has missed numerous sub attempts as well. The fight against Rampage comes to mind or even his LnP against Fedor. In fact, Fedor reversed Arona from mount many a time. Arona's also lucky RINGS didn't allow GnP.

3.) Pe de Pano couldn't even sub Arlovski on the ground. Arlovski had no problem defending on the ground and as soon as Herb-A-Dean stepped away he GnPed PDP to hell.

Completely awful posting or elaborate trolling. Either way, I've never read a post from you that wasn't completely worthless.

 

[dickcheney]

wow, this thread kinda was derailed...

so basically what i'm getting from you guys is that most Sambo Institutes do not use belts...and most people here do not have a measuring stick for where amir's sambo rates?

thanks for the input where it exists, this was never meant to be a bjj/sambo argument

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

wow, this thread kinda was derailed...

so basically what i'm getting from you guys is that most Sambo Institutes do not use belts...and most people here do not have a measuring stick for where amir's sambo rates?

thanks for the input where it exists, this was never meant to be a bjj/sambo argument

AFAIK, there is no official Sambo belt system. Some places instituted a belt system, but it was not accepted by a large part (majority?) of the Sambo community. Here's what SamboSteve said in another forum:

Worldwide Grappling Forums - Promotions in Sambo

Sorry if I don't seem all that excited to discuss this one again, so here is my nutshell answer:

There are no formally accepted ranks in sambo in the way most martial arts practitioners think of ranks. Historically in sambo ratings were based on competitive wins only.

Many schools have formed their own in-house systems for measurment. Currently, RMAX offers ranks, USA Storm offers ranks, and FIAS has tried to establish a color belt system (not very successfully). The old American Sambo Academy had ranks as did the old WSF. None of these are ubiquitous or formally accepted as standard. The American Sambo Association does not support any particular ranking system.

In my club, we have a "test" every couple of years or so. Nothing formal, but a means of measurement for long time students who are interested in becoming instructors. It is not a requirement, only an option for people who wish to go that route. The test means nothing outside our club.

For those who think..."How can you not have ranks?"...I ask you to consider how any sport with no ranks measures progress and skill...like wrestling for example. In my club everyone knows who is more or less advanced, who has been there longest, who warks hard and who slacks off, who is a beginner. No need for ranks. There are other ways to motivate and measure improvement in students. We train for skill, not for colors. This is the historical approach in sambo.

IMO, ranks are a distraction in training and there is no need to try and make sambo fit into a traditionally Asian way of doing things.

 

[Fedor#1]

enough said

 

[Deloitte]

All right, this calls for a ban for the good of the grappling community. Is there anyway to to just restrict this guy from clicking and replying in the grappling forum? A green belt posting such ignorant nonsense is ridiculous! Comparing Fedor's armbar on someone who no submission skills to Jacare who fights a great submission specialist like Miller is just flat out absurd. I hope you are just trolling and don't actually believe what you are posting.

 

[Silverblur]

Sambo doesn't usually give out belts. Though some organizations inside the US do.

Looking at his fights though, the little Sambo trips and subs off his back remind me of Fedor. They are so clean when they go for a sub, I rarely see either fail to get it, unlike most BJJ guys. You can throw in other Sambo practitioners like Fujii and Arlovski. Arlovski rarely goes to the ground, but when he wants a sub he gets it. See his achilles lock on Sylvia or his fight against Aaron Brink.

Amir missed subs on TUF, Fedor missed a couple subs on Arona, and AA tried and failed to get a heel hook on Pe De Pano. I'm realy not sure what you're talking about.

 

[kenban judan]

is there a source on Amir's background in the first place?

 

[YeahBee]

not to feed the troll but, I could see the top 10 judo/sambo guys have a better hit ratio with their subs then the top 10BJJ guys in MMA. mainly because the judo/sambo guys goes for fewer different subs or somthing, you don't see fedor going for gogos, omaplatas etc etc, kimuras and amrbars while Big Nog has a little of everything, chokes, triangles, armbars kimuras

Big Nog probably has a more diverse sub record but Fedor has nailed more of his subs

 

[Tony Manifold]

not to feed the troll but, I could see the top 10 judo/sambo guys have a better hit ratio with their subs then the top 10BJJ guys in MMA. mainly because the judo/sambo guys goes for fewer different subs or somthing, you don't see fedor going for gogos, omaplatas etc etc, kimuras and amrbars while Big Nog has a little of everything, chokes, triangles, armbars kimuras

Big Nog probably has a more diverse sub record but Fedor has nailed more of his subs

I was thinking along similar lines. Judo guys that have good subs tend to have a couple of subs that they are very good at and can lock on very fast. Judo in general seems to follow the idea of have one or two major techniques and a couple of minor ones that you do extremely well.

 

[Mohawk79]

Is it even fucking possible to start a thread on Judo/SAMBO/wrestling here without someone trying turn it into a "BJJ is better than everything" thread? God damn...

I have to completely agree with you on that point, I've grown quite tired of hearing that on the forum as well with other people I know in the grappling community. The horse has been beaten to death so many times, I think all threads that start heading in that direction should be sent to the wasteland.

 

[makoa26]

Sambo (martial art - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

You can find sambo ranks here. There is no belt system, and you earn rank by winning championships.

 

[CosmicOsmo]

Among the elite of each respective style, yes.

Sambo
1.) Fedor has only missed one sub and that was against a 7'2'' 360 pound Korean.

Ok, this is just getting absurd. Just off the top of my head, Fedor lost the armbar on Hunt, missed a leglock on Lindland, and threw more guillotines at Arona than I can count. I think he also tried an armbar on Schilt, but I haven't seen that fight in a while so I'm not 100% sure on that.

Fedor is one of my favorite fighters, but lets get real here. He does seem to have excellent sense of when to go for the sub, but one thing about fedor is that he's a GnP fighter first and foremost, which means he's content to sit there and pound on you until the perfect sub opportunity arises...he doesn't have to actively hunt for the sub like someone like Nogueira does.

 

[MIDMOBOX]

What I find more intresting than this debate on missed submissions, is how Amir's grappling background was portrayed on TUF.

During the series you heard about many of the fighters BJJ backgrounds, belt rank trainers ect, but Amir they would just mention he had good submission skills.

Does anyone here think that this is because the majority of TUF fans equate BJJ with submissions but don't recongize the other grappling arts such as sambo and judo.

 

[YeahBee]

^^^hyping him as the underdog probably

 

[Gabicho]

^^^hyping him as the underdog probably

This seems to be the case. By the way he was portrayed in TUF - and not just by DW, Griffin and Rampage, but by all of the other fighters - was like he was a kickboxer with no ground game whatsoever.

It seems even CB bought into it. I mean, it's almost as if they knew nothing about Sambo having a ground game...?

 

[anaconda]

This seems to be the case. By the way he was portrayed in TUF - and not just by DW, Griffin and Rampage, but by all of the other fighters - was like he was a kickboxer with no ground game whatsoever.

It seems even CB bought into it. I mean, it's almost as if they knew nothing about Sambo having a ground game...?

Thats what I thought - that he was a straight kickboxer with virtually no ground game.

After his third submission we obviously found out thats not true haha. I cant understand why they wouldnt discuss his grappling background.

 

[TacWar]

Thats what I thought - that he was a straight kickboxer with virtually no ground game.

After his third submission we obviously found out thats not true haha. I cant understand why they wouldnt discuss his grappling background.

could be tactical on amir's part...I know if I had good standup skills and good ground skills I'd act like I had nothing off my back. That way people wouldn't expect any submissions...sneaky.. yes, tactical... very.

 

[stlnl2]

The funny thing is Amir has trained ALOT of BJJ too. Sheesh people, Rick McCoy is his trainer in VA, a very good all around grappler with competition success in Sambo, BJJ, and no gi grappling. Rick is a BJJ BB as well.

Amir was a long ways from "inexperienced" too, the rules for MMA amatuer in Va allow all the way up to full blown unified MMA rules (3x5 mn rounds with elbows to the head) he most likely is a good purple in BJJ to go along with his other skills. The guy is well rounded, flat out.

These days folks act like if you are not a very good wrestler you have no ground game. I guess CB got a reality check on that one.

 

[sambosteve]

OK, I watch about zero of this season of TUF, but here is a thread in our forum about Amir:
Worldwide Grappling Forums - T.U.F. winner Amir Sadollah a Sambo "blackbelt"?

In a nutshell to my knowledge, Amir trained under Dave Womack at team combat, who is a well known coach/athlete in US Sambo from way back in the early days of Sambo in this country. I believe Womack used the old ranking system that was devised years back. It is not universally accepted now, but many old school guys from that generation still use it in house. Amir's lineage is legit....regardless of his "black Belt" is widely accepted or not.

Regarding the downplaying of sambo in the show, I did not watch it so I can't say. But it seems to me that was all marketing.

FYI, I know several sambo guys who went to the TUF try outs and left becasue they were told straight out that they could not use leg locks in the grappling try outs. So, my guess is that sambo is not PC as far as TUF is concerned.