Alternative Pyramid Theories

[These Two Hands]

Older societies had a larger level of skill and knowledge when it came to artisan/craftsmen sort of stuff though. So it's possible they had ways and means of engineering these things that we simply haven't knowledge of. A more recent example, albeit on a much smaller scale, is the staircase of Loreto. It simply shouldn't have been possible, but a man came, worked with hand tools only, and produced it in a matter of days.
It becomes increasingly difficult to relate to or understand much of these old ways in our modern society, as a lot of the inherent and innate knowledge particular to working wood, stone etc. that past generations had has died off or is in the process of dying off as it yields to modern technologies and methodologies.

Truth is, we'll likely never know exactly what went on there.

 

[Kick Strickland]

Great, now we know that on some level the Egyptians could move a large rock across sand. Pyramid building problem solved.

That idea speaks in no way to how they would have cut, quarried, moved and placed 2.3 million blocks of stone weighing 6 million tons over a 14 acre footprint all the while aligning it to within 3/60ths of a degree true north...with intricate chambers and shafts that deviate less than an inch over hundreds of feet.

True. But how many people alive today knew about that trick with moving blocks across semi-wet sand? Not many. But it's really freaking simple, and super effective. It even cuts the required push/pull force by like half. But that one trick is unknown by the majority of people today. So what other similarly brilliant/simple tricks did the Egyptians know, that was not passed down through the ages?

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I remember reading about this. It's ingenious.

Iirc it also cut the required push/pull force by half to slide a block across wet, semi-compact sand. And there are reliefs somewhere that clearly show people pouring water in front of one of those sleds while they were pushing a statue across the sand.

And if they brought sand into the pyramid they could use this technique all the way to the top. I'm curious how they transported water. Large tanks or thousands of tiny pottery containers?

 

[TheComebackKid]

Tell us what you know that would make so many people uncomfortable? Not a conspiracy theorist my ass.

If you define conspiracy theorists as anyone who doesn't believe the official or most widely accepted story or theory well then fuck...you just made the term meaningless.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I wonder how many people today, in our age of enlightenment, higher education, engineers, etc. could produce a pyramid of similar quality using modern tools. I'm guessing very few and it's mainly because we just do not use those materials any more. Like future generations trying to create a daguerreotype or a mimeograph. We have the knowledge, but not the ability to handle those resources.

The fact that a few beacons of intellect could shine that brightly in the complete absence of scientific teachings almost five thousand years ago is what's truly astounding to me. More so than the physical demands that had to be met to create the pyramids. They had the ability to handle the resources, but shouldn't have had the knowledge. They were amazing people.

 

[Phanuel]

History Channels Ancient Aliens ...."What if? Perhaps? Could?"

 

[andnowweknow]

History Channels Ancient Aliens ...."What if? Perhaps? Could?"

I love that show...high comedy and the conclusions are nonsense, but still, great footage of cool sites and it's a fun show all around. I wonder how many people out there actually think the show is legitimate in it's truth?

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Vellikovsky got some things correct...and a lot of things wrong. His treatment by the scientific community was pretty uncalled for though considering some of his ideas turned out to be correct.

It sounds like they did react quite harshly. I'm not sure I blame them, though, given the modern world where one in five Americans doesn't know the Earth moves around the sun, but the number of people knowledgable in aliens, bigfoot, ghosts and psychics are sky high.

 

[JonesBones]

True. But how many people alive today knew about that trick with moving blocks across semi-wet sand? Not many. But it's really freaking simple, and super effective. It even cuts the required push/pull force by like half. But that one trick is unknown by the majority of people today. So what other similarly brilliant/simple tricks did the Egyptians know, that was not passed down through the ages?

Exactly. He has no sense of context. People were very observant about their environment in ancient times. They noticed things. They weren't morons. They had to tough it out. Even the "savages" that guys like Magellan and Columbus encountered had Astronomical knowledge that rivaled Europe. Even though they didn't have the technology.

 

[andnowweknow]

True. But how many people alive today knew about that trick with moving blocks across semi-wet sand? Not many. But it's really freaking simple, and super effective. It even cuts the required push/pull force by like half. But that one trick is unknown by the majority of people today. So what other similarly brilliant/simple tricks did the Egyptians know, that was not passed down through the ages?

that is a totally rational point of view and I'm totally open to it. I was just pointing out that the method for moving blocks across sand speaks nothing to the most difficult aspects of building the pyramids.

 

[Kirin]

Many scientists were rejected as cranks. Many actually were. Even those that were later accepted, does not mean jack shit to this particular case. That doesn't prove your argument. It is a wash at best. Your reasoning is poor, and you are projecting motives on people. You seem quite emotionally invested in it for some reason too.

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

-Carl Sagan

LOL at your speculative and outlandish assertions. Almost as comical as that inane dutch publication, which does little to actually create a convincing argument for the methods by which the pyramids were created.

If my example is tangential, than yours is absolutely irrelevant and useless. The gentleman I was responding to asked why more academics, researchers, etc. aren't more vocal about disagreeing with the establishment and I gave an example of what happened just a half century ago when someone was brave enough to do so.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I wonder how many people today, in our age of enlightenment, higher education, engineers, etc. could produce a pyramid of similar quality using modern tools.

The fact that a few beacons of intellect could shine that brightly in the complete absence of scientific teachings almost five thousand years ago is what's truly astounding to me. More so than the physical demands that had to be met to create the pyramids.

Exactly. Now when you combine the intellectual demands and the physical demands...holy shit what a feat...

 

[JonesBones]

that is a totally rational point of view and I'm totally open to it. I was just pointing out that the method for moving blocks across sand speaks nothing to the most difficult aspects of building the pyramids.

But it was shown how they could move those blocks, which you were talking about... yet there is no reevaluation of your position. You don't give a fuck.

 

[andnowweknow]

Exactly. He has no sense of context. People were very observant about their environment in ancient times. They noticed things. They weren't morons. They had to tough it out. Even the "savages" that guys like Magellan and Columbus encountered had Astronomical knowledge that rivaled Europe. Even though they didn't have the technology.

The Maya had astronomical knowledge that surpassed Europe in certain ways and they had seemingly had it for a very very long time. I never said any ancient people were "morons" or weren't observant, I said the conventional story on how certain large ancient structures were created is laughable. That's all. And it is laughable.

 

[JonesBones]

The Maya had astronomical knowledge that surpassed Europe in certain ways. I never said any ancient people were "morons" or weren't observant, I said the conventional story on how certain large ancient structures were created is laughable. That's all. And it is laughable.

Yes, but individual points you make have large cracks in them. There is a way those blocks can be moved, which we didn't know about. Now compound that reasoning of other stuff we don't about it, and your shit unravels. You can always just appeal to another gap in the story. Of course. I know you can do that all day.

 

[andnowweknow]

But it was shown how they could move those blocks, which you were talking about... yet there is no reevaluation of your position. You don't give a fuck.

so now you've shifted the goal posts? Why would I re-evaluate the building of the pyramids if someone proved you could drag blocks across sand clumsily?

Btw, that link you provided wasn't news to me, I was well aware of the imagery and the experiments.

 

[Kirin]

Vellikovsky got some things correct...and a lot of things wrong. His treatment by the scientific community was pretty uncalled for though considering some of his ideas turned out to be correct.

Exactly my point. When are scientists ever 100% correct about anything? Most of the time the scientific community looks the other way though as long as it conforms to the orthodoxy they've established. If it falls outside of the rejected norms, the assailant becomes ostracized and turned into a pariah.

The late Dr Velikovsky was not an astronomer, astrophysicist, or geologist though, he was actually a psychoanalyst, but because he was willing to step outside the boundaries put in place by the academics of his time he was able to uncover some very compelling evidence for things that have happened here on earth which are quite anomalous.

 

[JonesBones]

so now you've shifted the goal posts? Why would I re-evaluate the building of the pyramids if someone proved you could drag blocks across sand clumsily?

Btw, that link you provided wasn't news to me, I was well aware of the imagery and the experiments.

I don't have goal posts. You were the one acting like those blocks being moved was so impossible and ridiculous, and how all the experts are on your side.

 

[andnowweknow]

Yes, but individual points you make have large cracks in them. There is a way those blocks can be moved, which we didn't know about. Now compound that reasoning of other stuff we don't about it, and your shit unravels. You can always just appeal to another gap in the story. Of course. I know you can do that all day.

I have no idea where to go from here with you. You're not making any sense. My ENTIRE issue with the orthodox historical accounting for the building of the pyramids (when, how, by whom, etc...) is EXACTLY based on the massive flawed logic used to come to those conclusions.

I'll be a little clearer so you don't find so much joy in catching me in some sort of silly childish gotcha game...

I'm with you, the great pyramid is there...it's not a figment of imagination, it's real. But saying that some clumsy way of dragging blocks across sand somehow, or actually in any way, relates to building a gigantic pyramid of stunning accuracy is either you being disingenuous or you simply not understanding the difference between the difficulty of dragging blocks over sand and placing 2.3 million of them accurately around inner structures that contain blocks around 80 tons that have been lifted to a height of over 100 feet multiple times.

Let me ask you a quick question, because I question how much you really know about this topic...I honestly think you're just parroting the mainstream view because you think you're a really rational person and that's what you should do.

Do you by in large accept the orthodox theory...that the great pyramid at Giza is Khufu's tomb, was built in 20 years, and was done using stone hammers, copper chisels and lots of hard labor?

 

[andnowweknow]

I don't have goal posts. You were the one acting like those blocks being moved was so impossible and ridiculous, and how all the experts are on your side.

No, I'm saying Egyptologists are wrong, and clearly wrong. I'm not saying I know the answer to anything.