Alternative Pyramid Theories

[andnowweknow]

I watched 1.5 of those videos while I worked out. I love learning about this stuff, but I have zero tolerance for filler and contrived drama these days. Modern television is the wrong medium for spreading knowledge, imo.

The bit about the heterogenous blocks being stronger than homogenous blocks was something I never heard before. I wonder if it's at all possible that thousands of years ago someone yelled, "We're on a deadline! If that's all we have then get that shit up there, we'll make it fit!"

And that's how the pyramids were built.

#teamsters

Imagine how much more difficult it makes it to create a basically perfect geometric structure of that scope with blocks of different sizes. That's crazy.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I wonder how many ropes, chisels, and workers it would take to cut and then move something like this:

 

[Kirin]

What I'm curious about is why the cover-up?

I'd venture to say that the establishment, particularly on the historical/scientific side, is way too married and dead set on maintaining the status quo of the dictatorship they hold on what's accepted as conventional "truth/knowledge". There's simply no way they'd want to admit there were technologies and methodologies used by ancient civilizations which they themselves can't find an explanation for.
It's the absolute height of hubris because rather than humbly accept that they're truly baffled, they propagate myths and lies in order to cover up their ignorance and inadequacies, whilst simultaneously polluting the minds of the public at large by feeding them all that horseshit.

It's not just the pyramids either, although they're some of the more blatant examples, but there's the trilothon in Lebanon or the edifices in Bolivia, pumapunku.

All in all, I'm not sure what's worse, the disingenuous assholes who spew that rubbish, or the dim witted people that lap it all up without second guessing it for a single moment.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

What I'm curious about is why the cover-up?

I'd venture to say that the establishment, particularly on the historical/scientific side, is way too married and dead set on maintaining the status quo of the dictatorship they hold on what's accepted as conventional "truth/knowledge". There's simply no way they'd want to admit there were technologies and methodologies used by ancient civilizations which they themselves can't find an explanation for.
It's the absolute height of hubris because rather than humbly accept that they're truly baffled, they propagate myths and lies in order to cover up their ignorance and inadequacies, whilst simultaneously polluting the minds of the public at large by feeding them all that horseshit.

It's not just the pyramids either, although they're some of the more blatant examples, but there's the trilothon in Lebanon or the edifices in Bolivia, pumapunku.

All in all, I'm not sure what's worse, the disingenuous assholes who spew that rubbish, or the dim witted people that lap it all up without second guessing it for a single moment.

Im not necessarily disagreeing, but I would like to ask you a simple question: why?

I would think that running to the press with information about new developments regarding pyramids would be a great way of bringing a ton of attention to, as you say, the establishment.

 

[andnowweknow]

I wonder how many ropes, chisels, and workers it would take to cut and then move something like this:

4, 4 each And 200,000 yoked slaves. They had a lot of time on their hands.

The size of the blocks at baalbek defy logic. We don't have riggs today that could move a block like that, we would have to use our strongest cranes with completely custom riggs to move that. The real crazy thing is, there are LARGER blocks still in the quarry there. Hard to wrap your head around really.

 

[TheComebackKid]

4, 4 each And 200,000 yoked slaves. They had a lot of time on their hands.

The size of the blocks at baalbek defy logic. We don't have riggs today that could move a block like that, we would have to use our strongest cranes with completely custom riggs to move that. The real crazy thing is, there are LARGER blocks still in the quarry there. Hard to wrap your head around really.

There is really no way around the old megalithic structures. They would be impossible to produce with hammers and chisels and primitive workers but yet there they are. Surely humanity can't ignore this forever.

 

[Kirin]

Im not necessarily disagreeing, but I would like to ask you a simple question: why?

I would think that running to the press with information about new developments regarding pyramids would be a great way of bringing a ton of attention to, as you say, the establishment.

Tell that to someone like Immanuel velikovsky. He wrote a treatise on what he believed happened about 2500 years ago in our solar system, with tons of evidence, and with some speculation in which he later turned out to be vindicated, and he was blacklisted by the academic establishment to the point where they were threatening his publisher with boycotting them. It was an absolute disgrace.

 

[andnowweknow]

What I'm curious about is why the cover-up?

I'd venture to say that the establishment, particularly on the historical/scientific side, is way too married and dead set on maintaining the status quo of the dictatorship they hold on what's accepted as conventional "truth/knowledge". There's simply no way they'd want to admit there were technologies and methodologies used by ancient civilizations which they themselves can't find an explanation for.
It's the absolute height of hubris because rather than humbly accept that they're truly baffled, they propagate myths and lies in order to cover up their ignorance and inadequacies, whilst simultaneously polluting the minds of the public at large by feeding them all that horseshit.

It's not just the pyramids either, although they're some of the more blatant examples, but there's the trilothon in Lebanon or the edifices in Bolivia, pumapunku.

All in all, I'm not sure what's worse, the disingenuous assholes who spew that rubbish, or the dim witted people that lap it all up without second guessing it for a single moment.

You can never be really sure about "cover ups" but in this case, I think it's safe to say that this isn't an issue of a cover up...certain ideas get ingrained in academia, and only time and new finds changes that.

For me, there are two scenarios, both equally likely but I have my opinion about what is moreso.

1.) Known Egyptian civilization in the earliest old kingdom era somehow had knowledge FAR beyond anything in existence up until basically the last century...the tools and record of which simply has disappeared through time or somehow got lost...

OR

2.) an unknown civilization of human beings in remote, deep history figured some really crazy shit out and were really advanced (probably not the way we are advanced, but maybe moreso in certain areas) and probably got royally fucked sideways (like every other large animal on earth essentially) because of the events that terminated the last ice age.

There are 125ish mega mammals on planet earth today...at the end of the last ice age, over 100 mega mammals, which are animals over 100lbs in body weight, went extinct...to be more precise, it would be like if every animal on earth today over 100lbs went extinct within a few thousand years. And mind you, those large mammals that went extinct were around for MILLIONS of years prior to the mass extinction event.

Imagine now what would have happened to human beings if that many animals went extinct?

 

[JonesBones]

4, 4 each And 200,000 yoked slaves. They had a lot of time on their hands.

The size of the blocks at baalbek defy logic. We don't have riggs today that could move a block like that, we would have to use our strongest cranes with completely custom riggs to move that. The real crazy thing is, there are LARGER blocks still in the quarry there. Hard to wrap your head around really.

What about this?


The truth, researchers at the University of Amsterdam announced this week in a study published in the journal Physical Review Letters, may actually be quite simple. It has long been believed that Egyptians used wooden sleds to haul the stone, but until now it hasn

 

[JonesBones]

Tell that to someone like Immanuel velikovsky. He wrote a treatise on what he believed happened about 2500 years ago in our solar system, with tons of evidence, and with some speculation in which he later turned out to be vindicated, and he was blacklisted by the academic establishment to the point where they were threatening his publisher with boycotting them. It was an absolute disgrace.

Many scientists were rejected as cranks. Many actually were. Even those that were later accepted, does not mean jack shit to this particular case. That doesn't prove your argument. It is a wash at best. Your reasoning is poor, and you are projecting motives on people. You seem quite emotionally invested in it for some reason too.

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

-Carl Sagan

 

[andnowweknow]

There is really no way around the old megalithic structures. They would be impossible to produce with hammers and chisels and primitive workers but yet there they are. Surely humanity can't ignore this forever.

I get why the orthodox view is to say it had to have been the Romans who moved those blocks at Baalbek, because they were the most advanced people we know were in that area...what I don't get is that we also know the Romans have zero known ways to deal with blocks that size.

What you are left with is very puzzling, and the answer that is most likely is probably really uncomfortable for people to come to grips with.

 

[Kick Strickland]

What about this?


The truth, researchers at the University of Amsterdam announced this week in a study published in the journal Physical Review Letters, may actually be quite simple. It has long been believed that Egyptians used wooden sleds to haul the stone, but until now it hasn

 

[JonesBones]

I get why the orthodox view is to say it had to have been the Romans who moved those blocks at Baalbek, because they were the most advanced people we know were in that area...what I don't get is that we also know the Romans have zero known ways to deal with blocks that size.

What you are left with is very puzzling, and the answer that is most likely is probably really uncomfortable for people to come to grips with.

Tell us what you know that would make so many people uncomfortable? Not a conspiracy theorist my ass.

 

[These Two Hands]

Brown people were too stupid to do it so Aliens.

I read somewhere once that nobody really knows what the ancient Egyptians looked like, or what their ethnic heritage was. The area they were in means they could very well have roots in any of a number of directions.

Contemporary Egyptians are descendants of the people who conquered and overran the ancient Egyptians or so I've heard.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

You can never be really sure about "cover ups" but in this case, I think it's safe to say that this isn't an issue of a cover up...certain ideas get ingrained in academia, and only time and new finds changes that.

For me, there are two scenarios, both equally likely but I have my opinion about what is moreso.

1.) Known Egyptian civilization in the earliest old kingdom era somehow had knowledge FAR beyond anything in existence up until basically the last century...the tools and record of which simply has disappeared through time or somehow got lost...

OR

2.) an unknown civilization of human beings in remote, deep history figured some really crazy shit out and were really advanced (probably not the way we are advanced, but maybe moreso in certain areas) and probably got royally fucked sideways (like every other large animal on earth essentially) because of the events that terminated the last ice age.

There are 125ish mega mammals on planet earth today...at the end of the last ice age, over 100 mega mammals, which are animals over 100lbs in body weight, went extinct...to be more precise, it would be like if every animal on earth today over 100lbs went extinct within a few thousand years. And mind you, those large mammals that went extinct were around for MILLIONS of years prior to the mass extinction event.

Imagine now what would have happened to human beings if that many animals went extinct?

There are only 125-ish mammals that are over 100lbs? That took me a moment to digest, but I guess I could see that being true. That's disappointing.

 

[andnowweknow]

What about this?


The truth, researchers at the University of Amsterdam announced this week in a study published in the journal Physical Review Letters, may actually be quite simple. It has long been believed that Egyptians used wooden sleds to haul the stone, but until now it hasn’t been entirely understood how they overcame the problem of friction. It amounts to nothing more, scientists say, than a “clever trick.”

They likely wet the sand. “For the construction of the pyramids, the ancient Egyptians had to transport heavy blocks of stone and large statues across the desert,” the university said. “The Egyptians therefore placed the heavy objects on a sledge that workers pulled over the sand. Research … revealed that the Egyptians probably made the desert sand in front of the sledge wet.”

It has to do with physics. The sort of sledges the Egyptians used to transport the two-ton loads of stone were pretty rudimentary. They were wooden planks with upturned edges. Dragging something that heavy through hot sand would — unsurprisingly — dig into the grains, creating a sand berm that would make progress nearly impossible. It “was perhaps observed by the Egyptians that in [a] dry case, a heap of sand forms in front of the sled before it can really start to move,” says the study, authored by a team of eight researchers led by Daniel Bonn.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ive-pyramid-stones-without-modern-technology/

Great, now we know that on some level the Dynastic Egyptians could move a large rock across sand. Pyramid building problem solved.

That idea speaks in no way to how they would have cut, quarried, moved and placed 2.3 million blocks of stone weighing 6 million tons over a 14 acre footprint all the while aligning it to within 3/60ths of a degree true north...with intricate chambers and shafts that deviate less than an inch over hundreds of feet.

You should also be clear on the fact that not all the pyramids are built the same...most of them are basically rubble piles at this point. If I had to take a wild guess, those are probably copies by people who found the stuff at Giza, tried to copy it and had none of the skills to properly do it.

 

[andnowweknow]

There are only 125-ish mammals that are over 100lbs? That took me a moment to digest, but I guess I could see that being true. That's disappointing.

I think that number is just land mammals over 100lbs in body weight. Pretty interesting number...and scary to think that whatever happened around 12k years ago killed off just as many as are alive today.

We could be hunting giant beavers and ground sloths...but NOOOOOO...

 

[andnowweknow]

Tell us what you know that would make so many people uncomfortable? Not a conspiracy theorist my ass.

I don't KNOW anything. If you want my honest opinion that has nothing to do with any conspiracy, it's that certain structures which are incredibly poorly referenced to known cultures who we KNOW had no way of producing them are actually from a much earlier time.

Think about it like this dude, cause I'm sure you're a fan of logic...Human beings are 150 to 200k years old...our records of what people have been doing culturally are about 5k years old...think about that, that means for over 90% of our history we've either been sitting on our asses not advancing...OR, we have perhaps advanced at least one time prior to this. From what you know about human beings, do you think that it's totally crazy to imagine civilizations in pre history might just have gotten to a high point at some time?

I've already explained in this thread that 12k years ago, this planet got royally beat up by what science is not confirming as a large extraterrestrial event...and it had nothing to do with aliens or conspiracies.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Tell that to someone like Immanuel velikovsky. He wrote a treatise on what he believed happened about 2500 years ago in our solar system, with tons of evidence, and with some speculation in which he later turned out to be vindicated, and he was blacklisted by the academic establishment to the point where they were threatening his publisher with boycotting them. It was an absolute disgrace.

He's far from being vindicated. He sounds like the Scooby Doo of scientists, stumbling into an occasional truth in between crazy antics.

From everything I just looked up online, it sounds like he was a bad scientist who's bad ideas were gaining traction with the public and overshadowed any good ideas he had. Wiki's criticism (link):

Velikovsky's ideas have been almost entirely rejected by mainstream academia (often vociferously so) and his work is generally regarded as erroneous in all its detailed conclusions. Moreover, scholars view his unorthodox methodology (for example, using comparative mythology to derive scenarios in celestial mechanics) as an unacceptable way to arrive at conclusions. Stephen Jay Gould[33] offered a synopsis of the mainstream response to Velikovsky, writing, "Velikovsky is neither crank nor charlatan—although, to state my opinion and to quote one of my colleagues, he is at least gloriously wrong... Velikovsky would rebuild the science of celestial mechanics to save the literal accuracy of ancient legends."

...

The fundamental criticism against this book from the astronomy community was that its celestial mechanics were physically impossible, requiring planetary orbits that do not conform with the laws of conservation of energy and conservation of angular momentum.

...

Earlier in 1974, James Fitton published a brief critique of Velikovsky's interpretation of myth (ignored by Velikovsky and his defenders) whose indictment began: "In at least three important ways Velikovsky's use of mythology is unsound. The first of these is his proclivity to treat all myths as having independent value; the second is the tendency to treat only such material as is consistent with his thesis; and the third is his very unsystematic method."

...

More recently, the absence of supporting material in ice-core studies (such as the Greenland Dye-3 and Vostok cores) has removed any basis for the proposition of a global catastrophe of the proposed dimension within the later Holocene period. However, tree-ring expert Mike Baillie would give credit to Velikovsky after disallowing the impossible aspects of Worlds in Collision: "However, I would not disagree with all aspects of Velikovsky's work. Velikovsky was almost certainly correct in his assertion that ancient texts hold clues to catastrophic events in the relatively recent past, within the span of human civilization, which involve the effects of comets, meteorites and cometary dust.... But fundamentally, Velikovsky did not understand anything about comets.... He did not know about the hazard posed by relatively small objects.... This failure to recognize the power of comets and asteroids means that it is reasonable to go back to Velikovsky and delete all the physically impossible text about Venus and Mars passing close to the earth.... In other words, we can get down to his main thesis, which is that the Earth experienced dramatic events from heavenly bodies particularly in the second millennium BC

...

While James credits Velikovsky with "point[ing] the way to a solution by challenging Egyptian chronology", he severely criticised the contents of Velikovsky's chronology as "disastrously extreme", producing "a rash of new problems far more severe than those it hoped to solve" and claiming that "Velikovsky understood little of archaeology and nothing of stratigraphy."

 

[andnowweknow]

He's far from being vindicated.

Vellikovsky got some things correct...and a lot of things wrong. His treatment by the scientific community was pretty uncalled for though considering some of his ideas turned out to be correct.