All Time GOAT poll

[pankrat]

"How do fighters from another division do while moving up or down: the better they do the worse that division is" is a really weird stat to analysis the strength of a division IMO. Fighters fighting outside their class are more indicative of how that individual does fighting outside his weight class, rather than revealing any universal truth about the division they moved over to.
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So what you suggest mate? Try to bring me something from your part because Im not the one saying there was a big gap in the caliber of the tittle contenders in two divisions separated by 15lbs under the same banner during equal lenghy time frame.

We are talking about two divisions that shared plenty of contenders, even in direct match ups where odds and outcomes didnt refflect what you suggest; plenty of them trained toguether too (like GSP regularly training with Marquardt for example). They were prize fighters that got the same money/exposure for making a run to the tittle shot in either division.

I also brought you the official p4p rankings in this very same site which, again, doesnt refflect what you say about caliber of competition

You are the one saying these were "strong" while those were "weak". So you made a pretty far-fetched assumption...yet I still didnt read you anything that even remotely tries back it up.

 

[Bojka]

It's a weighed formula of:

1. Sustained dominance in their own division against a variety of styles in multiple eras
2. Success against larger opponents
3. No history of cheating

Method of victory doesn't factor in. Only level of dominance.

I think only GSP satisfies all 3, but it's still weird to call him the GOAT since Jones and Khabib were more dominant. I don't think there is a clean MMA GOAT.

 

[Gamer2k4]

My number one criteria is title victories, especially consecutive title victories. (Randy Couture, for example has nine title wins but six title losses, while Jones has fifteen consecutive title wins and no title losses.) Title victories are most significant because they proved you were able to stay successful while fighting only the best the division had to offer, not to mention withstanding the pressure of being champion for so long.

Number two for me is probably overall talent. Perhaps you could argue that Ronda and Mighty Mouse were both dominant because they fought nobodies, but you can't argue that MM is miles ahead of RR in terms of sheer talent and fighting ability. Level of competition means less to me because the fighter can't control that, and a division that looks like a high-level shark tank when there's no dominant champion can also look like a massive pool of scrubs when no one can beat the champ, even if it's the same fighters.

One thing I don't take into account at all is the decline of a once-dominant fighter. Sure, Fedor finished with six losses on his record and several uninspired performances, but he was past his prime and should have retired. It certainly doesn't detract from his decade-long undefeated streak as a smaller heavyweight when the division was packed with absolute monsters.

I also don't consider "champ-champ" designations, at least not as a virtue by themselves. When you show dominance across multiple divisions, like Cormier was able to, then yeah, champ-champ means something. When you go up long enough to take the belt and promptly sputter out afterward, forget it.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

For me, I feel the main aspects would be influence (i.e. Royce bringing BJJ to the forefront), skill (regardless of accolades and their W/L record, how good were they?), length of career (how long did they fight and have success for?), nature of wins (did any of their wins have controversy?), strength of opponents, dominance (margin of victories), outstanding achievements (i.e. having success in multiple weightclasses or organizations).

 

[humdizzle]

if you got finished or dominated in a fight you're out. jones and khabib at the top for me

then since everyone else has lost in their prime its probably silva, then gsp, fedor, DJ

 

[Sweater of AV]

At the end of the day, just check whether you’re one of the GOATs.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Title defenses and not pissing hot.

 

[Dr. Rose]

That will change in a few weeks - Trip C fought nearly on the cut off for this and will be one of the fighters who could be on the list for either era.

Fair enough, Cheers!

 

[AmbassadorFright]

Most defenses

Best resumé

Longest win streak

Champ-Champ status

Dominance

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Thanks for asking this question @Dionysian. It's not asked enough. Most GOAT debates, fans argue over the answer without ever agreeing on the criteria. They're talking past each other - legit "the answer is 42" sorta shit - and don't even fucking know it.

For me it's:

• Dominance in the era is #1.
• Longevity is #2.

So IMO Benson Henderson (not picking on him, just using an example) cannot be a GOAT candidate because he lacked dominance in his era. He was a) not better than Pettis, and b) barely beat Gil and Edgar. A GOAT cannot be oh-so-marginally better than multiple other opponents in his era, according to my criteria.

And yes, longevity counts for something. Someone who bounces around like Conor or CCC lacks in this criteria.

So the fun begins when two fighters in the same division wrecked the division for a long period of time. Izzy is coming closer to making that happen at 185. At 170 and 205, the #2 is debatable.

 

[Mike]

Strength of schedule and length of reign. Basically if you're fighting in a deep division and you're on top for a long time, you jump to the front of the line for me. I hate when people want to introduce all sorts of silly stats that they think favor their fighter.

Never being dropped doesn't make you the best. Neither does winning the most rounds or having the most finishes. To me, it's how many ranked wins and title defenses you have. Serious bonus points for getting a belt in a second division.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

It's a weighed formula of:

1. Sustained dominance in their own division against a variety of styles in multiple eras
2. Success against larger opponents
3. No history of cheating

Method of victory doesn't factor in. Only level of dominance.

I think only GSP satisfies all 3, but it's still weird to call him the GOAT since Jones and Khabib were more dominant. I don't think there is a clean MMA GOAT.

DJ satisfies all 3 and has the most fights above his weight. Especially the second criteria.

 

[Bojka]

DJ satisfies all 3 and has the most fights above his weight. Especially the second criteria.

He got dominated by Cruz as far as I recall. Refused to fight TJ even though he had no interesting opponents at 125. It doesn't look like he beat any elite 135ers. Torres had a padded record.

I think DJ is underrated, but it's easier to dominate 125 because the division is both shallower and the fighters have no KO power.

In the heavier divisions it's shallower, but make one mistake and you will get knocked out.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

He got dominated by Cruz as far as I recall. Refused to fight TJ even though he had no interesting opponents.

I think DJ is underrated, but it's easier to dominate 125 because the division is both shallower and fighters have no KO power.

In the heavier divisions it's shallower, but make one mistake you will get knocked out.

DJ outstruck Cruz and lost because Cruz spammed TDs nonstop. And that was BEFORE DJ was even a full time fighter. He worked his way up to a title shot while working a full time construction job.

Many of DJs opponents were ranked 135s at multiple points in their careers. Cejudo and Kyoji even got 135 belts and KOd BWs. Dodson was a FLW with more KO power than many BWs. Benavidez had competitive bouts with Cruz. The narrative that FLW was a weak division is easily disproven by simply looking at the success these guys had at 135.

DJ has more wins at 135 than he does at 125 and has been spectacularly finishing bigger opponents recently

 

[Bojka]

DJ outstruck Cruz and lost because Cruz spammed TDs nonstop. And that was BEFORE DJ was even a full time fighter. He worked his way up to a title shot while working a full time construction job.

Many of DJs opponents were ranked 135s at multiple points in their careers. Cejudo and Kyoji even got 135 belts and KOd BWs. Dodson was a FLW with more KO power than many BWs. Benavidez had competitive bouts with Cruz. The narrative that FLW was a weak division is easily disproven by simply looking at the success these guys had at 135.

DJ has more wins at 135 than he does at 125 and has been spectacularly finishing bigger opponents recently

He doesn't have more wins at 135. He fought there before the UFC opened the flyweight division. He only has 2 UFC wins at bantamweight. Cejudo was a 125er when DJ fought him. Cejudo won his Olympic gold medal at 121 lbs.

 

[acannxr]

Keep in mind I think @acannxr is an excellent and intelligent poster so I don't want to put words in his mouth.

But in that thread he is clearly talking about the MW division GLOBALLY rather than solely in the UFC.

That thread series is confined to Pride/UFC/WEC champions (depending on the division) based on global rankings.

I did a "Golden Era" thread series based on three metrics (average age of top ten, number of fighters in division, and number of turnovers in the top ten), which is probably a better (albeit imperfect) measure of a division's prime than my "Champions" thread series.

Timeframe with youngest average age: 2002-2011.

Timeframe with most total fighters: 2007-present.

Timeframe with most turnovers: 2003-2015.

When you look for the most overlap with the above three results, then the Golden Era of the Middleweight Division would be from 2007-2011.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/golden-era-of-the-middleweight-division-stats.4201527/

Of course this is a global assessment and not confined purely to the UFC.

For example, when you read this in that thread...

That post of mine was slightly off topic from the thread itself.

 

[SenorFranko]

4 legs
Eats grass
Fur
Couple of horns

Bobs your uncle

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

He doesn't have more wins at 135. He fought there before the UFC opened the flyweight division. He only has 2 UFC wins at bantamweight. Cejudo was a 125er when DJ fought him. Cejudo won his Olympic gold medal at 121 lbs.

Correction: DJ the same amount of fights in 135 and 125. Its about to be more at 135. He is 12-3 at 135 and 13-1-1. He was at BW for 9 amateur fights and 15 pro fights. He was at 135 in WEC, UFC, and ONE.

Henry was a BW when he debuted on the UFC has missed the 125 before. He openly had issues with the weight cut.

The majority of DJs opponents were formerly ranked BWs or individuals who'd go on to have great success at BW. Half of his career has been spent with a size disadvantage. He helped 125 and 135 titles in 2 major organizations. Seems like he checks all your boxes

 

[Bojka]

Correction: DJ the same amount of fights in 135 and 125. Its about to be more at 135. He is 12-3 at 135 and 13-1-1. He was at BW for 9 amateur fights and 15 pro fights. He was at 135 in WEC, UFC, and ONE.

Henry was a BW when he debuted on the UFC has missed the 125 before. He openly had issues with the weight cut.

The majority of DJs opponents were formerly ranked BWs or individuals who'd go on to have great success at BW. Half of his career has been spent with a size disadvantage. He helped 125 and 135 titles in 2 major organizations. Seems like he checks all your boxes

Well they don't. Because I don't consider Rizin titles where you're allowed to juice to be equivalent to UFC titles like you apparently do. None of DJ's WEC 135 opponents had winning records in the UFC.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Well they don't. Because I don't consider Rizin titles where you're allowed to juice to be equivalent to UFC titles like you apparently do. None of DJ's WEC 135 opponents had winning records in the UFC.

DJ never fought in Rizen lol. And DJs 125 opponents has winning BW records