Aldo vs Holloway better striker

[pankrat]

God damn it.. i'm not saying aldo is a big fw by todays standards and where did i say he isn't smaller than max?

I'm saying consensus WAS aldo was a big fw with notoriusly hard cuts, something that gets mentioned a lot in his earlier fights.. also the swole aldo was probably as heavy as most modern fws.. he wasn't the smaller man until he met conor..

I used frankie as an example of why people AT THE TIME would think aldo was a big fw..

Ok but what's the point, then? When we are comparing him with Max.

Pat Mletich was once considered a big WW, or even Matt Hughes. When you have WWs stepping in the cage over 200lbs as Till or Hendricks...they aren't that big.

Max steps into the cage at 178lbs....being as slim as he can get.
Now that Aldo has taken care of nutrition and slimmed down a bit he steps in at below 160lbs.
That's a BIG difference.


Besides, what you call "consensus" is basically sherbros parroting their uneducated eye tests. They also swallowed the myth of "Okami huge MW" while he wasnt big MW, not even by the standards of a decade ago.

For the most part, sherbros are fatties easily impressionable by muscles. They see a guy with big muscles and if in top of that has a disproportionately big head -a trait that both Okami and Aldo have in common btw - you will get shertards shouting "woooow he is huuuuge" but it is what is, the uneducated eye test of a sherbro and nothing else.

 

[Iron Nick]

Dude, Max is clearly the larger man than Aldo. Period.

Bringing Frankie, probably the most notiorious case in modern MMA for not cutting weight, doesnt change these facts:

Do you have a source for the 176 pound figure?
I just find it hard to believe that a 45er is able to cut 31 pounds of water weight, that seems impossible to be..

 

[Substance Abuse]

terrible take. The talent at FW has never been as deep as it is now. When Aldo was holding the belt the majority of his career, a majority of the guys he fought in championship fights would barely make the top 10 now. And I am both an Aldo and Max fan. It’s just the truth.

And that's irrelevant due to context if you believe that. A fact in this equation is Aldo was eleven years deep into his career with a lot of mileage and injuries. He was on the down swing when he fought Max.

 

[mikesparrow]

That's only true for their first fight, and that 2nd round was a 1 strike difference. Max outstruck him every round they fought after that, including the entire 2nd fight.

Well, watch the fight again.. The number of the strikes are cool for people who have no understanding of combat sports. Aldo was rolling and blocking most of Max's strikes. Also had much more effective strikes. I encourage you to watch the second fight and especially their first round. If you can't see the difference in yhe striking skills, well you might want to consider switching hobbies...

 

[pankrat]

Do you have a source for the 176 pound figure?
I just find it hard to believe that a 45er is able to cut 31 pounds of water weight, that seems impossible to be..

I found it hard to believe as well, to be honest:



We are talking about a Max Holloway who is as slim as he can get. There is no bulk for him to cut.
When Aldo slimmed down his body to the same extent, he is stepping in the cage below 160lbs.

Obiously if Max starts to put bulk on his frame and eat ice creams as Aldo used to do at FW, then who knows how much he would weight. He most certainly could not make FW.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Many people consider 2014 ish to be the golden era of the FW division. Guys like Aldo, Frankie, Conor, Mendes, KZ, Cub, Poirier, Oliveira, and Lamas were all in the FW rankings around the same time.

All of these guys in their prime would almost certainly be able to make the rankings today. Hell, past prime KZ is still there. The sport doesn't evolve as fast as people think. The new generation of fighers tend to feast on old past prime generation, giving the illusion that the new generation is more evolved than it really is.

This pretty much sums of my thoughts on context. Mendes after two years off almost knocked out Volk, yet Aldo's FW peers wouldn't do well today? Please. Aldo beat Frankie when he was the number two lightweight and Florian was the seventh. Aldo beat the number one featherweight in 2008 yet people nowadays don't even know who Alexandre is. Everyone wants to shit on Aldo's resume after the fact when it's bulletproof in my eyes.

By the time Aldo lost to Conor he was over a decade deep into his career and had been fighting the best fighters in the world for about seven, eight years. KZ is still ranked and has ranked wins at 145. Aldo beat him years ago.

 

[pankrat]

This pretty much sums of my thoughts on context. Mendes after two years off almost knocked out Volk, yet Aldo's FW peers wouldn't do well today? Please. Aldo beat Frankie when he was the number two lightweight and Florian was the seventh. Aldo beat the number one featherweight in 2008 yet people nowadays don't even know who Alexandre is. Everyone wants to shit on Aldo's resume after the fact when it's bulletproof in my eyes.

I agree but to be fair, Pequeno Nogueira wasnt considered the #1 guy anymore...since some time ago. He had already lost to several up and comers in Japan.

Nogueira earned his reputation as best FW in Shooto back in the 90s - mainly with two wins over Shooto legend Noboru Asahi - in which was basically a regional, rather semi-professional circuit.

I do think Aldo vs Nogueira is a prime example of modern fighter vs old-school in lighter weightclasses.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

Ok but what's the point, then? When we are comparing him with Max.

Pat Mletich was once considered a big WW, or even Matt Hughes. When you have WWs stepping in the cage over 200lbs as Till or Hendricks...they aren't that big.

Max steps into the cage at 178lbs....being as slim as he can get.
Now that Aldo has taken care of nutrition and slimmed down a bit he steps in at below 160lbs.
That's a BIG difference.


Besides, what you call "consensus" is basically shertards parroting their uneducated eye tests. They also swallowed the myth of "Okami huge MW" while he wasnt big MW, not even by the standards of a decade ago.

For the most part, sherbros are fatties easily impressionable by muscles. They see a guy with big muscles and if in top of that he has a disproportionately big head -a trait that both Okami and Aldo have in common btw - you will get shertards shouting "woooow he is huuuuge" but it is what is, the uneducated eye test of a sherbro and nothing else.

I never compared him to max..

I just responded to someone who said aldo was never considered big, never had trouble cutting weight and is a small fw..

I just said he was the bigger/more physical guy in almost all of his fights up until conor.. historically he was known for hard cuts and carrying a lot of muscle..

Sure, the new era of fws carry more muscle than your average 200lbs/5'9 guy who ironically thinks the fw's are "manlets"..

 

[Substance Abuse]

I agree but to be fair, Pequeno Nogueira wasnt considered the #1 guy anymore...since some time ago. He had already lost to several up and comers in Japan.

Nogueira earned his reputation as best FW in Shooto back in the 90s - mainly with two wins over Shooto legend Noboru Asahi - in which was basically a regional, rather semi-professional circuit.

I do think Aldo vs Nogueira is a prime example of modern fighter vs old-school in lighter weightclasses.

My timeline may be off, but he was a ranked win and a good win, and it speaks to how long Aldo was fighting top guys. It's been a long time.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

The number of the strikes are cool for people who have no understanding of combat sports.

You're the one who made an argument for the number of strikes, dude. You said Aldo outlanded him.

You can go back and do a Weasle-esque breakdown of the fights yourself, watching at half speed and pausing after every strike, and you'll see that Aldo never outlanded Max after Round 2 of the first fight and never in the second fight.

You can try and say that you feel Aldo "rolled" with the blows more than Max, and that may have helped, but the fact is that they landed hard enough to wear Aldo out (Aldo was not throwing more than he ever did by volume, so he didn't gas out just based on activity--he was getting tired because he was absorbing more blows than he uaually does).

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

I found it hard to believe as well, to be honest:

You found it hard to believe because it's basically impossible.

Max cutting from 178 lbs would make him the biggest weight cutter of all time in FW, 8 pounds over the heaviest FW ever recorded in the history of the CSAC's log of cage weights (remember, CA was recording the fight night weights of every fighter on a card there).

It would also make Max the biggest weight cutter in all weight classes in terms of body weight %, also going by the CSAC's list of biggest weight cutters (where the record was 17.7%, and 178 would put Max at 18.6%).

Using fighter/coach interviews or CSAC records is one thing, but Big John is not a direct source and he's clearly wrong.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he might be misremembering Max's LW fight.

 

[Daniel_LaRusso]

Aldo better for as long as he has lead in his pencil.

 

[pankrat]

You found it hard to believe because it's basically impossible.

Max cutting from 178 lbs would make him the biggest weight cutter of all time in FW, 8 pounds over the heaviest FW ever recorded in the history of the CSAC's log of cage weights (remember, CA was recording the fight night weights of every fighter on a card there).

It would also make Max the biggest weight cutter in all weight classes in terms of body weight %, also going by the CSAC's list of biggest weight cutters (where the record was 17.7%, and 178 would put Max at 18.6%).

Using fighter/coach interviews or CSAC records is one thing, but Big John is not a direct source and he's clearly wrong.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he might be misremembering Max's LW fight.

Holly shit, this obsessive kiddo replying me another day. Sick dude.

Another article refering Max's weight:


Please stfu. You are an uneducated textbook sherbro delivering simpleton takes. Go get new friends.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Another article refering Max's weight:

Are you claiming that article says Max weighs 178 lbs in the cage (as opposed to out of camp walk around weight) from a source other than Big John? It's mostly about Max's walk around weight being 180, which is what makes sense.

Again, do you understand that Max weighing 178 on fight night would make him literally the biggest weight cutter in the UFC in terms of recorded FW (by almost 8 pounds!) and even the entire promotion (in terms of %)--evem more than Paulo Costa.

Come on.

I like how you're calling me the simpleton for using actual facts like the entire CSAC database, but you feel you're smart for relying on a clearly outlandish, off the cuff remark from Big John (not a direct source) on fucking Weighing In.

 

[pankrat]

Interesting that you posted a pic of a headline and not the content.

Are you claiming that article says Max weighs 178 lbs in the cage (as opposed to out of camp walk around weight) from a source other than Big John?

Again, do you understand that Max weighing 178 would make him literally the biggest weight cutter in the UFC in terms of recorded FW (by almost 8 pounds!) and even the entire promotion (in terms of %)--evem more than Paulo Costa.

Come on.

I like how you're calling me the simpleton for using actual facts like the entire CSAC database, but you feel you're smart for relying on a clearly outlandish, off the cuff remark from Big John (not a direct source) on fucking Weighing In.

Muy bien niño. Now go make new friends

 

[Masturbin]

Holly shit, this obsessive kiddo replying me another day. Sick dude.

Another article refering Max's weight:


Please stfu. You are an uneducated textbook sherbro delivering simpleton takes. Go get new friends.

The guy could not even make 155 safely on short notice. That's how much of a weight cutter he is.

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Muy bien niño. Now go make new friends

You're on a public message board, dude.

The lengths you go to stan for Aldo and excuse all his losses are kind of crazy, man. You don't have to pretend Max Holloway is the biggest weight cutter in UFC history.

You know before Max and Conor, Aldo usually outweighed most of his best opponents by a significant margin, right?

 

[Deleted member 585708]

It's not his fault he had to destroy a whose who list of incredible strong grapplers in his career at the top. It's actually more impressive that he fought every contender in his division regardless of the 'bad matchup' or what have you and was dominant for so long. It's not like cub, faber, hominick, florian, frankie, korean zombie, etc etc were all slouches in the striking department either. I don't think Holloway is anywhere near the level of Yan or Volk, either...not sure why you are throwing those two in there, nobody said aldo is a better technical striker than them lol. Max is tall as fuck and more durable than Aldo, but I wouldnt say hes in a completely different league in the striking department than him lmao.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, but especially in the here and now Aldo and Holloway are some way apart.

Aldo is the Renaissance man at the minute, and his current run is nothing to be sniffed at, but I do think he's presently a little overrated as a result.

Career wise, nobody can fault the guy without looking a total idiot lol

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

The guy could not even make 155 safely on short notice.

Fighters who get out of shape when not in camp are going to find it almost impossible to cut 25 - 30 pounds in less than a week. Some fighters gain 10 to 20 pounds of fat between camps eating too much (Poirier, Max, Masvidal, et al).

Out of camp weights aren't the same as cage fight weights.

 

[pankrat]

The guy could not even make 155 safely on short notice. That's how much of a weight cutter he is.

He is cutting massive amounts of weight even though he is as slim as he can get. Certainly shows huge discipline to get there.

Some simpletons on here that pretend he is not notably bigger than Aldo have no clue about nutrition and weight cutting.

If Max had bulk on his frame and ate ice creams as Aldo used to do before slimming down to BW, Max would have problems to even compete at LW, let alone FW which would be impossible for him.

Now that Aldo has slimmed down and has proper nutrition (as Max always did), Max and him step into the cage about 20lbs apart.