Aldo vs Holloway better striker

[linvillegorge]

Realistically speaking, Max weights 10-15lbs heavier than Aldo and weightclasses exist in combat sports for a reason. In boxing, these two would very easily be competing two weightclasses apart.

Also was a long time FW champ. You're acting like Max dwarfed him and that's just not true. Yes, Max is a bit bigger. Max Aldo the same size and I still think Max beats him down. Aldo flights much better as the leader of the dance but Max is really good at using his pressure and pace to force himself into being the leader of the dance.

 

[pankrat]

Also was a long time FW champ. You're acting like Max dwarfed him and that's just not true. Yes, Max is a bit bigger. Max Aldo the same size and I still think Max beats him down. Aldo flights much better as the leader of the dance but Max is really good at using his pressure and pace to force himself into being the leader of the dance.

Not saying you are wrong regarding the stylistic match up. But...Max certainly dwarfed Aldo.

You say that technically Aldo is the better striker. And then say, "realistically speaking", Max beat him twice.

Well, I think in the "realistic speaking", its fair to add two factors: Aldo's mileage and Max's size advantage.

You act like the size dissadvantage was anecdotic.

Max outweights/outsizes Aldo by a larger margin than Poirier does to Max. And you could see in that fight how the weight/size makes a difference, how the effectivenes of Max's striking is not the same when facing a heavier/bigger guy.

Max and Aldo are currently stepping in the cage 15-20lbs apart. And not because Max has lot of bulk on his frame, not at all, the guy is as slim as he can get, and still, 15-20lbs apart. I think its "realistic" to say that Max is naturally a clearly larger man.

 

[IDGETKTFO]

just going by both there fights alone, i thought they were pretty much even in the striking and it would all come down to who's chin would hold up. Turns out it was Max.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Aldo is the better striker, Max has way better cardio and an insane chin which allows him to gas Aldo then take over.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Aldos striking is more technical and dynamic, but Max has a great chin and is able to sustain very high volume.

 

[mikesparrow]

You're the one who made an argument for the number of strikes, dude. You said Aldo outlanded him.

You can go back and do a Weasle-esque breakdown of the fights yourself, watching at half speed and pausing after every strike, and you'll see that Aldo never outlanded Max after Round 2 of the first fight and never in the second fight.

You can try and say that you feel Aldo "rolled" with the blows more than Max, and that may have helped, but the fact is that they landed hard enough to wear Aldo out (Aldo was not throwing more than he ever did by volume, so he didn't gas out just based on activity--he was getting tired because he was absorbing more blows than he uaually does).

If you have no understanding of striking, there is no point of having the conversation with you..

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

If you have no understanding of striking, there is no point of having the conversation with you..

This is such an empty post.

I'd love to see you make an actual argument for Aldo outstriking Max for the first two rounds of their second fight. I'm sure it'd be very entertaining.

 

[pankrat]

It would be like judging Khabib's wrestling vs Usman.

If Khabib bulked jup just as Aldo did at FW - instead of slimming down as much as he could, as he made for LW or Aldo does for BW - he would be similarly undersized vs Usman at WW as Aldo was vs Max at FW.

Khabib is certainly the most technical MMA wrestler, by a larger margin than Aldo is a better striker than Max imo, but who knows if Usman physicality would not eventually bring trouble for Khabib.
We just didn't watch such a tough matchup for Nurgamomedov - the closer would be Tibau imo - as Holloway was for Aldo.
Physicality/size played an important role on Max overwhelming Aldo.

 

[pankrat]

If you have no understanding of striking, there is no point of having the conversation with you..

Aldo definitely looked more skilled in exchanges while he was fresh in early rounds.
Max eventually walked him down, and his reach, chin and output didnt allow Aldo to slow down the pace as he needs to fight comfortably for extent periods of time.
Besides, by the time Aldo faced Max he was already slowing down and wasnt able to use kicks as he used to.

When Max faces a guy who outsizes/outweights him as much as he did to Aldo...then pays a higher price and size is not such an advantage so its not so overwhelming. The guy still has an extraordinary chin, heart and boxing skill himself so he can get it done. Great fights with Aldo anyways, still his best career performances imo and a joy to watch while Aldo had gas

 

[Local Plata]

God damn it.. i'm not saying aldo is a big fw by todays standards and where did i say he isn't smaller than max?

I'm saying consensus WAS aldo was a big fw with notoriusly hard cuts, something that gets mentioned a lot in his earlier fights.. also the swole aldo was probably as heavy as most modern fws.. he wasn't the smaller man until he met conor..

I used frankie as an example of why people AT THE TIME would think aldo was a big fw..

Oh, so your point was that MMA fans were fucking retarded at the time?

 

[DrTrouble]

Depends how you want to define "better".

The question is who is the better striker. So when two guys fight and it's all striking. Then the guy that dominated both times is the better striker.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Max was able to use his style in a more effective manner vs Aldo when they fought, but Aldo probably has the cleaner technique.

I would say FOR SURE (not maybe) has the cleaner technique, speed and power.

Swap their chin and Cardio ... Aldo wins super easily.

 

[OmegaRugal]

The thing is max attacks you everywhere. He doesn’t just head hunt he doesn’t just target the body or the legs. He goes for it all. And he does it with combos. So if you ar egos opponent he attacks all areas in bunches and it doesn’t stop because of his elite cardio. On top of it his fight iq is easily top 5 in mma and understands how to read the opponents, adjust and then adjust again if the opponent adjusts. He has done this to everyone outside of volk who has just as well for a fight iq. Jose from a technical kickboxing standpoint is probably prettier as far as striking goes and a little more technical, but when you start throwing in the combos, cardio, and fight iq it makes max striking a mother fucker to defend against. So I would say max overall.

If Max didnt have a chin or gas tank ... his style wouldnt work.

Holloway is more effective striker thanks to a big asisst to his cardio/chin/recovery.

Aldo is more skillful but he doesnt have Holloways cardio and chin/recovery so if cant finish you in telwo rounds ... he needs to hope you are too hurt to not take advantage of his cardio.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

Oh, so your point was that MMA fans were fucking retarded at the time?

I'm saying it never stopped..

 

[Jojomojo]

The question is who is the better striker. So when two guys fight and it's all striking. Then the guy that dominated both times is the better striker.

Well thats one way of defining it, even tho an MMA match is never a pure striking match. However style matchup are a thing for a reason and no sane human being would say that Weidman is the better striker than Silva.

When someone says "better" they also imply a difference in technique. Throughout the history of MMA there are countless examples were the technically worse striker beat the better one.

Not saying this is the case for Aldo/Holloway, but tradtionally speaking Aldo has the cleaner overall MT/kickboxing technique for whatever thats worth.

 

[pankrat]

The question is who is the better striker. So when two guys fight and it's all striking. Then the guy that dominated both times is the better striker.

When one guy is notable larger than the other, that's not always the case. Especially when the bigger man is getting outstriked until the undersized opponent starts to fade, which is what happened here.

Aldo and Max are currently 20lbs apart. If these two competed in boxing, they would be two weight classes apart.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Not saying you are wrong regarding the stylistic match up. But...Max certainly dwarfed Aldo.

You say that technically Aldo is the better striker. And then say, "realistically speaking", Max beat him twice.

Well, I think in the "realistic speaking", its fair to add two factors: Aldo's mileage and Max's size advantage.

You act like the size dissadvantage was anecdotic.

Max outweights/outsizes Aldo by a larger margin than Poirier does to Max. And you could see in that fight how the weight/size makes a difference, how the effectivenes of Max's striking is not the same when facing a heavier/bigger guy.

Max and Aldo are currently stepping in the cage 15-20lbs apart. And not because Max has lot of bulk on his frame, not at all, the guy is as slim as he can get, and still, 15-20lbs apart. I think its "realistic" to say that Max is naturally a clearly larger man.

As you say I do think Max is a perfect example of someone using a size advantage very well, he depends very heavily on his chin and limiting the power he's facing via making a big cut has I think been a massive part of his sucess.

Really though it depends what you mean by "striker" doesnt it? purely in terms of striking sucess Max did beat Aldo twice so really the only arguement against that is that Aldo was post prime, if your talking about striking technique on the other hand I do think a good case that Aldo's is superior.

 

[mikesparrow]

This is such an empty post.

I'd love to see you make an actual argument for Aldo outstriking Max for the first two rounds of their second fight. I'm sure it'd be very entertaining.

Again.. outstriking isn't only about number of strikes. Watch the fight again, and if you can't see it in the first two rounds, then I really don't know what to tell you...

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Again.. outstriking isn't only about number of strikes. Watch the fight again, and if you can't see it in the first two rounds, then I really don't know what to tell you...

You continue being vague because you don't have an argument, but I'll still bite. Please, educate me.

In the 2nd fight, Max outlanded Aldo by sizeable margins in all rounds, hitting him with a variety of beautiful combinations to the head and body, countering Aldo multiple times, etc. Aldo only showed an advantage in power and explosive speed, but those are athletic attributes.

Tell me, how do you feel Aldo outstruck Max in the second fight?

 

[mikesparrow]

You continue being vague because you don't have an argument, but I'll still bite. Please, educate me.

In the 2nd fight, Max outlanded Aldo by sizeable margins in all rounds, hitting him with a variety of beautiful combinations to the head and body, countering Aldo multiple times, etc. Aldo only showed an advantage in power and explosive speed, but those are athletic attributes.

Tell me, how do you feel Aldo outstruck Max in the second fight?

I wish i could do that for you. Again, see the fight again... You do not need to see it in a slow motion. If you can't see who is a better striker, i can't help you. If the question was who is the better fighter, the answer would be Max. Max drowned Aldo with volume and cardio. Aldo was clearly a better striker in the first two rounds. If you still can't see it, then you really need to see it in a slow motion..