Aging bodybuilders

[dfoster]

It would be really hard to do a solid study on this as there are so many factors. I will say that the bodybuilders of the late 50's to early 70's era, ( ie, the ones who are not 60") and who are doing the best in terms of health/longevitiy had some things in common.

1. They pursued Physical Culture with bodybuilding being an important part of it, as opposed
to purusing just the "look" of bodybuilder

2. They continued to set goals, but they changed their goals to what would allow them
to train for the long term

3. They pursued athletic endeavors other than iron/workout stuff

4. They took their competitve energies and turned them into successful business ventures
etc.

5. They ate less and ate good food

6. They continued to train legs and back just about as hard as before


Older Bodybuilders who have "aged well"

Reg Park
John Grimek ( maybe the best example of all)
Bill Pearl
Larry Scott
Frank Zane
Clarence Ross
Tommy Kono
Boyer Coe

Good stuff. I think the philosophy of "Physical Culture" is the main factor responsible for other things you mentioned.

 

[B3rserk3R]

EDIT sorry, read that wrong.

 

[Donut62]

Didn't know that about Arnold's father. I know the Mentzer brothers' fatal heart condition was also said to be genetic, and the bunch of wrestlers who died of heart related matters... that was the reason for my doubts but it could be genetic in Arnold's case...

People die from Tylenol, so I'm sure people have died from steroids. Mike Mentzer and the wrestlers who died were on a whole slew of drugs, I believe Mike was a meth user and the wrestlers almost across the board were heavy opiate addicts because of pain killers. I don't know that there is anything conclusive done on the effects of AAS on the heart, it is a muscle after all, but there certainly isn't anything that can be drawn from most of these cases because of a whole scope of circumstances.

 

[Keith Wassung]

Another reason that you hear about so many deaths among pro wrestlers is that those guys have to travel--all the time, compete or perform-all the time and present a certain look-all the time, this naturally leads to year around drug use--both steroid type drugs as well as uppers, downers, etc. They dont have an off-season. Football, Bodybuilding, track, etc. have an off season and some downtime so that the guys can rest, recover, etc. They only have to be at their best part of the year, not year round


Famous Wrestlers That Have Died Since 1985 Before the Age of 65 (please read this FAQ before making any assumptions or writing me any emails about this list)
Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Owen Hart - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Emory Hale - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
John Kronus - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Biff Wellington - 42
Brian Adams (Crush) - 43
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49
Moondog Spot - 51
Ken Timbs - 53
Uncle Elmer - 54
Pez Whatley - 54
The Angel of Death - 54
Eddie Graham - 55
Tarzan Tyler - 55
Haystacks Calhoun- 55
Giant Haystacks - 55
The Spoiler - 56
Kurt Von Hess - 56
Moondog King - 56
Gene Anderson - 58
Dr. Jerry Graham - 58
Bulldog Brown - 58
Tony Parisi - 58
Rufus R. Jones - 60
Ray Stevens - 60
Stan Stasiak - 60
Terry Garvin - 60
Boris Malenko - 61
Little Beaver - 61
Sapphire - 61
Shohei Baba - 61
Dick the Bruiser - 62
Wilbur Snyder - 62
George Cannon - 62
Karl Krupp - 62
Dale Lewis - 62
Gorilla Monsoon - 62
Hiro Matsuda - 62
Bad News Brown - 63
Bulldog Brower - 63
Wahoo McDaniel - 63

 

[Krossinc]

Lou Ferrigno is an excellent example. He's in his mid 50's and looks like he's in his 30s. Hell, he was even rumored to be doing dancing with the stars a while back.

 

[dfoster]

Lou Ferrigno is an excellent example. He's in his mid 50's and looks like he's in his 30s. Hell, he was even rumored to be doing dancing with the stars a while back.

yeah, he looked just like a modern day bodybuilder when I last saw him.

...on Physical Culture... Every time I hear the term, I think of black and white pictures of people jumping on trampolines in Venice Beach, guys with girls on their shoulders, Jack Lalane doing 1 arm pushups, very bodyweight oriented stuff. It's a far cry from today's bodybuilding. Any comment on the "fitness culture" of the 80's when everybody was into aerobic classes, spandex, ect.. Could that be what Physical Culture evolved into?

 

[B3rserk3R]

Another reason that you hear about so many deaths among pro wrestlers is that those guys have to travel--all the time, compete or perform-all the time and present a certain look-all the time, this naturally leads to year around drug use--both steroid type drugs as well as uppers, downers, etc. They dont have an off-season. Football, Bodybuilding, track, etc. have an off season and some downtime so that the guys can rest, recover, etc. They only have to be at their best part of the year, not year round


Famous Wrestlers That Have Died Since 1985 Before the Age of 65 (please read this FAQ before making any assumptions or writing me any emails about this list)
Chris Von Erich - 21
Mike Von Erich - 23
Louie Spiccoli - 27
Art Barr - 28
Gino Hernandez - 29
Jay Youngblood - 30
Rick McGraw - 30
Joey Marella - 30
Ed Gatner - 31
Buzz Sawyer - 32
Crash Holly - 32
Kerry Von Erich - 33
D.J. Peterson - 33
Eddie Gilbert - 33
The Renegade - 33
Chris Candido - 33
Adrian Adonis - 34
Gary Albright - 34
Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34
Owen Hart - 34
Yokozuna - 34
Big Dick Dudley - 34
Brian Pillman - 35
Marianna Komlos - 35
Pitbull #2 - 36
The Wall/Malice - 36
Emory Hale - 36
Leroy Brown - 38
Mark Curtis - 38
Eddie Guerrero - 38
John Kronus - 38
Davey Boy Smith - 39
Johnny Grunge - 39
Vivian Vachon - 40
Jeep Swenson - 40
Brady Boone - 40
Terry Gordy - 40
Bertha Faye - 40
Billy Joe Travis - 40
Chris Benoit - 40
Larry Cameron - 41
Rick Rude - 41
Randy Anderson - 41
Bruiser Brody - 42
Miss Elizabeth - 42
Big Boss Man - 42
Earthquake - 42
Mike Awesome - 42
Biff Wellington - 42
Brian Adams (Crush) - 43
Ray Candy - 43
Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43
Dino Bravo - 44
Curt Hennig - 44
Bam Bam Bigelow - 45
Jerry Blackwell - 45
Junkyard Dog - 45
Hercules - 45
Andre the Giant - 46
Big John Studd - 46
Chris Adams - 46
Mike Davis - 46
Hawk - 46
Dick Murdoch - 49
Jumbo Tsuruta - 49
Rocco Rock - 49
Sherri Martel - 49
Moondog Spot - 51
Ken Timbs - 53
Uncle Elmer - 54
Pez Whatley - 54
The Angel of Death - 54
Eddie Graham - 55
Tarzan Tyler - 55
Haystacks Calhoun- 55
Giant Haystacks - 55
The Spoiler - 56
Kurt Von Hess - 56
Moondog King - 56
Gene Anderson - 58
Dr. Jerry Graham - 58
Bulldog Brown - 58
Tony Parisi - 58
Rufus R. Jones - 60
Ray Stevens - 60
Stan Stasiak - 60
Terry Garvin - 60
Boris Malenko - 61
Little Beaver - 61
Sapphire - 61
Shohei Baba - 61
Dick the Bruiser - 62
Wilbur Snyder - 62
George Cannon - 62
Karl Krupp - 62
Dale Lewis - 62
Gorilla Monsoon - 62
Hiro Matsuda - 62
Bad News Brown - 63
Bulldog Brower - 63
Wahoo McDaniel - 63

That is entirely f*cked up

 

[dfoster]

They dont have an off-season. Football, Bodybuilding, track, etc. have an off season and some downtime so that the guys can rest, recover, etc. They only have to be at their best part of the year, not year round

A good argument for the importance of rest in working out :icon_chee

 

[oxcart]

The Von Erich's have had it rough. I have old videos of Kerry somewhere.

 

[Sieger]

Anybody with first hand knowledge of what kind of health a former bodybuilder has in his 50's and 60's? I know Arnold had his heart operations but I guess it was mostly due to steroids.
I'm looking for some info on the effects of carrying around too much muscles for one's frame. I always thought it's a little too much if you were 160lbs in high school but now walk around at 260lbs. Lean or not, your heart, lungs and joints were not designed for that weight. Granted the older generations were not as big but they're now in their 60's so we can get some rough ideas. I know Arnold was not the first generation because he had "idols" - any info on how those guys are living?

Plain and simple: it's impossible to put on 100 lbs. of lean tissue, starting at 160, without the aid of steroids, a lot of them, huge quantities. So it is difficult to assess the effect of added muscle alone on the health of pro bodybuilders, apart from the damage done by steroids.
Pro bodybuilders juice beyond reason. There was a german bodybuilder called Andreas M

 

[Keith Wassung]

The Muscle Beach era was Physical Culture-Inner, meaning you strived to attain a physical ideal that resulted in an improved inner physical (and mental/spiritual) presence. The additional result was a pleasing outward physical appearance ( call it beauty, etc) The 80's and on was all about Physical Culture-Outer meaning the only obective was an external look-
-whenever you talked with all of the 80's aerobics types, did they ever talk about getting faster, fitter, etc. NO, it was ALL about the look and this still exists today in the mainsteam fitness industry.

 

[B3rserk3R]

^^ Now it's all about getting thinner using a pill. Trim Spa Baby!

 

[Sieger]

It depends on where you start and what your age is. 100lbs over a ten-fifteen year period is certainly doable if you start as a teen

Starting at 160 lbs, it is not feasible without drugs. If you're a big guy (e.g. Tim Sylvia, Semmy Schilt or HMC) with a natural weight of 220-230 it is feasible, if coupled with awesome genetics.

 

[bacon]

Starting at 160 lbs, it is not feasible without drugs. If you're a big guy (e.g. Tim Sylvia, Semmy Schilt or HMC) with a natural weight of 220-230 it is feasible, if coupled with awesome genetics.

From what authority, knowledge base or experience are you speaking?

 

[Sieger]

From what authority, knowledge base or experience are you speaking?

That's an opinion. A 160 lbs man with 10% bodyfat has a lean mass of 144 lbs. The whole skeleton weighs approx. 26 lbs for the average man. If you subtract the lean weight of the internal organs, skin and brain, you have left less than 100 lbs. of muscle tissue. Adding 100 lbs. of muscle would mean doubling (at least) the quantity of muscular tissue. Do you think it's possible? I have some experience with biology (I'm a medical student) and with lifting: in my opinion doubling the quantity of muscular tissue of an adult individual is no small task.
A bigger individual has more muscle to begin with (just do the same math for a 230 lbs. man), so that adding 100 lbs. wouldn't mean doubling the muscular tissue. A smaller task (but nonetheless enormous).
There aren't papers (I don

 

[stylesbjj**]

That's an opinion. A 160 lbs man with 10% bodyfat has a lean mass of 144 lbs. The whole skeleton weighs approx. 26 lbs for the average man. If you subtract the lean weight of the internal organs, skin and brain, you have left less than 100 lbs. of muscle tissue. Adding 100 lbs. of muscle would mean doubling (at least) the quantity of muscular tissue. Do you think it's possible? I have some experience with biology (I'm a medical student) and with lifting: in my opinion doubling the quantity of muscular tissue of an adult individual is no small task.
A bigger individual has more muscle to begin with (just do the same math for a 230 lbs. man), so that adding 100 lbs. wouldn't mean doubling the muscular tissue. A smaller task (but nonetheless enormous).
There aren't papers (I don

 

[Sieger]

You seem pretty knowledgeable on this subject. Unfortunately your info is too much for me so I'll just add you to my ignore list.

????

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Seiger sounds like you're making too many assumptions. I will use myself as a primare example. I started at 140 lb with 15-18% bf at 16 ...10 years later I am now 215-220 at 6-7% bf.....having never done steroids/prohormones/hgh......with only about 5 years of serious lifting. granted some weight was gained through some maturation process but I was still pretty pudgy......by your statements this is not possible...my genetics are far from great.......I am also not remotely trying to gain weight...ie stuffing myself with protein shakes 2-3 times a day and taking in a lot of high calorie meals....if I tried to do that and had a bigger supplement budget I could probably gain another 10-15 lb without too many problems as can most other who increase their caloric intake...

have you ever done some low rep lifting for prolonged periods(ie 95-101 of 1rm)?...

 

[joshetc]

I think you are confusing side effects of taking way too many steroids and being strong as the same thing. Being athletic and strong naturally or on somewhat controlled drug use is completely different than roiding until your heart explodes.

 

[dfoster]

I think you are confusing side effects of taking way too many steroids and being strong as the same thing. Being athletic and strong naturally or on somewhat controlled drug use is completely different than roiding until your heart explodes.

Check my first post again, It's not about the side effects of steroids or being strong. It's about carrying around to much weight as a result of having too much muscle mass. I mentioned steroids to eliminate the steroid-related symptoms from the overall symptoms to hopefully isolate the ones caused by carrying around too much mass. But as you see some posters point out, it's very hard to isolate them because huge mass gain and steroids go hand in hand with today's bodybuilders.