adcc changes rules-same day weigh ins

[Gidselgrisen]

If weight cutting is "a part of the sport and we should just accept it" like I've heard so many times, I suggest we start filling the highlights and countdown shows with footage of fighters sweating on an exercise bike in a plastic suit, going to the can, and heroically gulping down post weigh-in carb drinks.
Weight cutting is only a part of the sport because the rules currently make room for it, not because it has any intrinsic relationship with the sport whatsoever.

We should have same day weigh ins in MMA too.

 

[Drew Foster]

i don't know that it's "cheating" necessarily, since weight cutting isn't against the rules. but i think you should be competing at (or close to) a weight you walk around at day-to-day. the whole point of cutting weight is to try and be in the lowest weight class possible, while being the heaviest within that weight class. that's always struck me as shifty. i mean, if the cut off is 150 and you walk around at 153, fine. but if you walk around 160-165, and cut weight just long enough to weigh in but are fighting closer to 160, i think it's unfair.

if you can't compete at your weigh-in weight, you shouldn't be competing in that division in the first place.

i'm in the process of preparing to start competing this fall. i'm shooting to get down to 150 (just under a 10lb cut), but not by cutting. i actually want to feel strong and comfortable at that weight. and that means losing the weight naturally and sustainably, not starving/dehydrating myself for a week before the tournament.

I'm with you when it comes to civillians. But when it comes to MMA fighters or pro grapplers at events like ADCC I can understand the other side too. They look at things like who is in the division, where their traits stack up best at, etc. I can totally see both sides of the argument in this one, and I don't really have a side. I can just say that for me, unless it's a BIG deal, I would like to not have to do much, if any, cutting in the days before the weigh in. I would rather be strong and feel good naturally at 187-189 if I'm in 180-189 or 177-179 if I'm in 170-179.

 

[Drew Foster]

IBJJF events make you weigh in right before you step on the mat for your match, so you can't really cut at all because you don't have a chance to rehydrate or eat. I think it's a good thing that they're doing this for ADCC too.

And of course Marcelo is happy--he doesn't have to fight Pablo anymore!

I'm obviously a Marcelo fanboy, but when you've faced a guy 4 times (once before ADCC I think), 3 of those times in a row, and you've tapped him out 2/3 times in the Abu Dhabi Finals, I don't think Marcelo Garcia is scared of Pablo Popovitch. I really do wanna see em go at it again though. It seems like a tradition at 77kg.

 

[Drew Foster]

Haa haaa. Pablo likes to grab on to shorts so much that I am offering him my jockstrap to chew on...

Marcelo beat him EVERY EACH FIGHT... excluding the the one where Paplo went in to check in Marcelos junk..

PS: Hey Pablo, my offer still stands, come and grab my shorts. If you cant rip them of I will give them to you after rolling so you can chew on them.

Unless this is a joke, you might wanna edit it or be careful in the future because of fighter bashing policies here. Pablo was not stopped by the ref, and did not have any points deducted, and in all fairness he was eye poked too. It was a rough match, and a lotta crazy shit happened. When Pablo got that pass, he wasn't using any illegal grips, and I think he should still be commended for fighting a tough match and winning with a beautiful pass in the final seconds. I never saw him use any cloth grabbing to defend a sweep or pass or to aid in any sweep or pass.

 

[flipspeed]

If weight cutting is "a part of the sport and we should just accept it" like I've heard so many times, I suggest we start filling the highlights and countdown shows with footage of fighters sweating on an exercise bike in a plastic suit, going to the can, and heroically gulping down post weigh-in carb drinks.
Weight cutting is only a part of the sport because the rules currently make room for it, not because it has any intrinsic relationship with the sport whatsoever.

We should have same day weigh ins in MMA too.

This. I'm not against weight cutting, but i just don't get why some people are totally against same day weigh-ins. I have someone in the gym that told me he would never compete if its same day weigh-ins. Is it such a travesty that you're going against guys in the same weight range? my .02

on a sidenote, wish they would implement same day weigh-ins for tournaments having a novice or beginner levels.

 

[Ninjamurf]

It wouldn't solve the problem, plus then fighters won't have time to rehydrate. Brain trauma while dehydrated is significantly worse than brain trauma while hydrated.

It WOULD solve the problem and fighters wouldn't NEED to rehydrate. Why? Because they wouldn't cut in the first place! They would already be hydrated come fight time. Body trauma due to huge weight cuts is significantly worse then NOT cutting weight if everyone is guaranteed to be on a level playing field anyway. Anyone who chooses to cut big weight for an event with same day weigh ins would immediately be put into the idiot category.

 

[Ninjamurf]

Bollocks. Same day weigh-ins don't lead to less dangerous weight cuts, they lead to dehydrated competitors.

Bollocks. Why would anyone cut weight for an event that weighs you in right before you step on the mat?

What it leads to is NO cutting and perfectly hydrated competitors. And for the most part (MMA speaking) the same people competing against the same competitors...just up a weight class (or 2!) But it would be inherently safer.

People, people, people, boxing had "day of" weigh ins for a hundred freaking years. No one bitched. No one complained. Everyone fought at their natural weight. No one was "dehydrated." No one struggled to cut another 10 pounds. You got in shape, weighed yourself, and that was your weight class. Period. People of similar weight fought each other and you never had to worry about someone coming into the ring 20 pounds heavier than you.

Weight "cutting" is a relatively new phenomenon that CAN (and should) be eliminated by simply telling the fighters that they will be weighed in right before their match. People will whine. People will bitch. An occasional fight will be canceled due to someone not making weight at fight time. And then everyone will learn and we'll finally get to see a couple of 170 pounders compete for the 170 pound title. Wouldn't that be an eye opener?

 

[Ninjamurf]

This. I'm not against weight cutting, but i just don't get why some people are totally against same day weigh-ins. I have someone in the gym that told me he would never compete if its same day weigh-ins. Is it such a travesty that you're going against guys in the same weight range? my .02

on a sidenote, wish they would implement same day weigh-ins for tournaments having a novice or beginner levels.

I hear ya. I'd love to hear some of the COUNTER arguments. Most say, "oh, you end up with hopelessly dehydrated fighters." Bullshit. Boxers did it for a hundred years and were never dehydrated. Anyone who dehydrates themselves to that level before a fight? ON PURPOSE? Would have to be a moron. Most fighters aren't morons. So most fighters wouldn't do it. End of argument. You end up with healthy, hydrated fighters who compete against other healthy, hydrated fighters, who all actually belong in that weight class.

 

[Bruce Calavera]

It's pretty obvious that ADCC just wants their athletes to be able to compete in top condition instead of a dehydrated mess. This forces people to compete at their natural weight. Granted Pablo Papovitch probably isn't going to run out of energy in 5 minutes, I would like to see him fighting peiople his actual size.

 

[Drew Foster]

Bollocks. Why would anyone cut weight for an event that weighs you in right before you step on the mat?

What it leads to is NO cutting and perfectly hydrated competitors. And for the most part (MMA speaking) the same people competing against the same competitors...just up a weight class (or 2!) But it would be inherently safer.

People, people, people, boxing had "day of" weigh ins for a hundred freaking years. No one bitched. No one complained. Everyone fought at their natural weight. No one was "dehydrated." No one struggled to cut another 10 pounds. You got in shape, weighed yourself, and that was your weight class. Period. People of similar weight fought each other and you never had to worry about someone coming into the ring 20 pounds heavier than you.

Weight "cutting" is a relatively new phenomenon that CAN (and should) be eliminated by simply telling the fighters that they will be weighed in right before their match. People will whine. People will bitch. An occasional fight will be canceled due to someone not making weight at fight time. And then everyone will learn and we'll finally get to see a couple of 170 pounders compete for the 170 pound title. Wouldn't that be an eye opener?

Damn the way you wrote that made a whole lot of sense....

 

[KJGould]

For same day weigh ins in MMA to be safe there'd have to me an immediate hydration test (if such a thing exists) where a fighter must be a minimum % hydrated to be allowed to compete.

 

[georgejjr]

For same day weigh ins in MMA to be safe there'd have to me an immediate hydration test (if such a thing exists) where a fighter must be a minimum % hydrated to be allowed to compete.

Its not a safety issue. Olympic judo has same day weigh in, and wrestling and boxing have had them in the past. The reason for sports to change to day before has to do with time constraints, not safety (or promotion in professional fighting). Athletes and their trainers in high level competitions know how much they can safely cut for a tournament or fight, and take the weigh in time into consideration.

No one intentionally cuts weight to the point that they're too weak to compete, let alone get to safety issues. And anyone stupid enough to do that is likely to be wrecking their health in a number of other ways ... sport isn't about baby sitting athletes to make sure they don't harm themselves. If someone is crazy enough to try to compete so dehydrated that their health is in danger, then they're going to have to learn the hard way ... though in practice they're going to be so weak they'll lose long before the dehydration has much of an effect.

Basically, same day weigh ins just means you cut less, since the purpose of cutting is to get the maximum strength to weight ratio. Cutting too much weakens you, and so elite fighters don't cut past a certain point. Its why Franklin (for instance) doesn't cut weight to fight at 155 ... he could probably do it (people lost more than that in concentration camps), but he'd be so weak that he'd lose quick.

And as far as that goes, you can be just as dehydrated with a day before weigh in, if you don't know how to rehydrate properly. There's a science behind cutting, its been studied in depth in sports physiology and articled in peer reviewed journals. Those who follow the science are fine whether day before or same day weighins are used, those who ignore (or are ignorant of) the science can screw themselves up either way.

 

[knoxpk]

I am not opposed to same day weigh ins, it is not an issue. Doing a 5 second before you figt or even (in grappling for instance) random weigh ins throughout the day is not cool.

Oh and fighting 20 lbs bigger would happen ANYWAY in MMA.
A 188lb guy could easily face a 205lb guy but the 188lb guy cant cut the 3lbs to drop to the 185lb category.

It changes nothing except mixes up the weight class, you STILL will have guys 20lbs apart because many of the classes have 20lb spreads.

Light to weleterweight in MMA has a 15lb spread, welter to light heavy a 20lb spread, light heavy to heavy a 60 lb spread. So a guy walking around at 209 that CAN cut same day (an hour or 2 before the fight) cannot anymore and has to potentially fight a guy nearly 60lbs heavier.

in adcc 77kg to 88kg is what? 24, 25lbs? 170lb guy versus a 193lb guy STILL='s a 20+ lb spread.

Just saying.

 

[yrjan]

Well, most professional athletes would prolly manage to walk around a bit under the limit of a weight class anyway though. Wouldn't they? Maybe not in the heavyweight division, but the rest should be possible I'd think ..?

 

[amhlilhaus]

good, weight cutting is the biggest problem in lighter weight combat sports.

 

[gkoprulu]

Unless this is a joke, you might wanna edit it or be careful in the future because of fighter bashing policies here. Pablo was not stopped by the ref, and did not have any points deducted, and in all fairness he was eye poked too. It was a rough match, and a lotta crazy shit happened. When Pablo got that pass, he wasn't using any illegal grips, and I think he should still be commended for fighting a tough match and winning with a beautiful pass in the final seconds. I never saw him use any cloth grabbing to defend a sweep or pass or to aid in any sweep or pass.

From what you wrote it seems like you have watch the match.. YES Pablo may have poked in the eye but it was an unintentional move, it was not done with ill intend. I dont think you can say the same about his short grabbing. He did it over and over again, intentionally, to gain unfair advantage on his opponent who beat him every time they faced before. So you can not say he was poked in the eye and the last pass was without a short grab. Intentional vs a simple accident. On top of that who cares is the ref, did not see it. When a perfect pitch ruined by a ref. or when Englands goal that passed the line was not seen my the ref what happens? Again I believe it is irrelevant if the ref saw it or not. TRUTH DOES NOT NEED A FAN BASE. When Marcelo submitted Rolles Gracie Jr. in the previous ADCC nobody saw what happened but Renzo came in and asked and then it was told to the ref that there is a submission here not a freak injury.

So I humbly disagree with you. Pablo intentionally cheated (he is a cheater) and I am ready to present my shorts to him at his request.

 

[Haven]

C'mon down to Florida and show Popovitch how good you are. Irregardless of your views of the match, you couldn't hold Popovitch's jock.

 

[knoxpk]

C'mon down to Florida and show Popovitch how good you are. Irregardless of your views of the match, you couldn't hold Popovitch's jock.

PP is a beast and NO ONE should be talkinh shit about the guy!

 

[gkoprulu]

C'mon down to Florida and show Popovitch how good you are. Irregardless of your views of the match, you couldn't hold Popovitch's jock.

I never claimed that I am this good or that good. I am a blue belt. "Irregardless" I can still spot a cheat and see what is right or wrong. You dont have to be a chicken to know how to make an omlet.

 

[Haven]

I respect your views but your shit talking about the man isn't needed. You know nothing of him other than what you see on youtube. Nobody in this thread disrespected him because he has earned respect of fellow grapplers. I just wish you would do the same.