Social Abraham Lincoln R* the 1st homosexual President of America ...?

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

"Abe was gay" wasn't her conclusion.

Its the conclusion you want us to have after only focusing on one sentence, rather than the entire page of her reminiscing of her loved step-son growing from a boy into being a man.

And apparently he got over his lack of fondness of girls, because Abe got married and had four children. Now if they had no kids perhaps your side may have a point of the possibility of their marrage being a fraud, but the biological children... and your side not bothering to refute they are his biological children speaks volumes.

One would never make such a bold statement in any context. Sorry. She meant what she said and that's it. No need to try and squirm your way out of this. You're just wasting your energy and my time.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

One would never make such a bold statement in any context. Sorry. She meant what she said and that's it. No need to try and squirm your way out of this. You're just wasting your energy and my time.

Yes, she meant everything in the entire quote, not just that one sentence.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yes, she meant everything in the entire quote, not just that one sentence.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

She clearly outed him but did so in a polite and respectful manner. Notice that she waited until after he was deceased. What a coincidence.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Don't know. I never lived in mid-America in the early-to-mid 1800s. Back then there was no paranoia of homosexuals, and it was common for adult men to sleep in the same bed as child brothers would.

Very sure our modern methods and traditions would be very bizarre to them too, about as bizarre as how we view their methods and traditions.

Intimacy with another man is not being paranoid about homosexuality. Its recognizing it for what it is.

However, dismissing clearly intimate acts or repeating a false equivalency is being paranoid about homosexuality

It was so common place for that era can you show us any other married man from that era that had multiple male bedtime companions????????????????

If its so common it should be an easy request. Again using your own criteria of historians cant be trusted.... Im not asking for a historians take here. I'm asking for documented examples of other married "straight" men spooning eachother.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Intimacy with another man is not being paranoid about homosexuality. Its recognizing it for what it is.

However, dismissing clearly intimate acts or repeating a false equivalency is being paranoid about homosexuality

Don't think anyone disputes that sleeping with another man is a form of intimacy. The issue is that intimacy doesn't equal sexual activity.

The definition of 'intimacy' :
"close familiarity or friendship; closeness"

And by recognizing it was the early-to-mid 1800s, we actually are 'recognizing it for what it was.'

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Don't think anyone disputes that sleeping with another man is a form of intimacy. The issue is that intimacy doesn't equal sexual activity.

The definition of 'intimacy' :
"close familiarity or friendship; closeness"

And by recognizing it was the early-to-mid 1800s, we actually are 'recognizing it for what it was.'

So you expect everyone in this thread to believe that Abe slept with Joshua Speed for 4 years and NEVER did ANYTHING sexual with him? Haha!

 

[GearSolidMetal]

It was so common place for that era can you show us any other married man from that era that had multiple male bedtime companions????????????????

If its so common it should be an easy request. Again using your own criteria of historians cant be trusted.... Im not asking for a historians take here. I'm asking for documented examples of other married "straight" men spooning eachother.

Oh you just added these paragraphs to your post.

Don't think anyone is arguing that sleeping with another man wasn't odd, but saying it automatically makes it sexual it a bit of a stretch.

Don't know of any historic American figure's sleeping habits have been analyzed more than Abe Lincoln, so I doubt there's many other examples of historic men spooning with ither men.

Abe was an odd guy, and that's a fact no one disputes.
But saying those odd traits together is 'proof' he was gay, that's a bit of jumping to a conclusion you're looking for any justification to jump to anyway.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

So you expect everyone in this thread to believe that Abe slept with Joshua Speed for 4 years and NEVER did ANYTHING sexual with him? Haha!

You can believe whatever you want that is constructed within your mind's eye, Man Bag.

But your arguments that Abe Lincoln was gay, in comparison to the counter-argument that he was 100% heterosexual, is very lacking.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

She clearly outed him but did so in a polite and respectful manner. Notice that she waited until after he was deceased. What a coincidence.

Um... yeah... she 'outed him.'
'Oopie, did mean to say that!'

And this is why everyone is doubting your perception of reality, for you to read her full quote and come away with it with that bizarre conclusion.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You can believe whatever you want that is constructed within your mind's eye, Man Bag.

But your arguments that Abe Lincoln was gay, in comparison to the counter-argument that he was 100% heterosexual, is very lacking.

I never argued that he was gay. See how dishonest this guy is? He misrepresents everything just to try and 'win' an internet argument. Sad. Oh, and let me help you out. Spooning quickly leads to fucking the fact is that we know with 100% certainty that they were doing the former. Get a clue.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

Say if he was gay or bisexual would it matter? Does it change people perspective of him as a leader and what he did back than?

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Oh you just added these paragraphs to your post.

Don't think anyone is arguing that sleeping with another man wasn't odd, but saying it automatically makes it sexual it a bit of a stretch.

Don't know of any historic American figure's sleeping habits have been analyzed more than Abe Lincoln, so I doubt there's many other examples of historic men spooning with ither men.

Abe was an odd guy, and that's a fact no one disputes.
But saying those odd traits together is 'proof' he was gay, that's a bit of jumping to a conclusion you're looking for any justification to jump to anyway.

Exactly. You keep parroting "it was common place to." Common place things would of been ingrained in the culture, in bios, & in the entertainment for that era. There would of been other countless clear examples of historic married men doing it too. Especially if it wasn't frowned upon.
Denial at all cost. Dudes getting intimate in 1 person bed with another married man is beyond platonic friendship or a family relationship.

Intimately kising or making out with a man is not sex. However, if a man wanted to do that with another man he would still be engaging in homosexual activity.

Heterosexual people are still heterosexual even if they are virgins & never have sex. It works the exact same way for bi & homosexual people. Same concept. Intimacy & attraction are 100% considered and an indicator.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Exactly. You keep parroting "it was common place to."

Don't think I've ever stated 'It was common place' in this thread.

Please quote the post that I said it. Otherwise, you're putting words in my mouth.

Intimately kising or making out with a man is not sex. However, if a man wanted to do that with another man he would still be engaging in homosexual activity.

Got any letters testifying that Abe kissed or made out with his friends?

Unless you can quote the letters, you're just making up this point because you're running out if relevant points to discuss.

Heterosexual people are still heterosexual even if they are virgins & never have sex. It works the exact same way for bi & homosexual people. Same concept. Intimacy & attraction are 100% considered and an indicator.

So now you're getting so desperate that you're speculating that Lincoln wanted to have homosexual sex, regardless if he ever actually did.

Have you ever bothered to analyze your own arguments before posting them?

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Don't think I've ever stated 'It was common place' in this thread.

Please quote the post that I said it. Otherwise, you're putting words in my mouth.


Got any letters testifying that Abe kissed or made out with his friends?

Unless you can quote the letters, you're just making up this point because you're running out if relevant points to discuss.


So now you're getting so desperate that you're speculating that Lincoln wanted to have homosexual sex, regardless if he ever actually did.

Have you ever bothered to analyze your own arguments before posting them?

If you can't address any of the valid points made in the conversation get out of the thread.
You're a full blown dishonest actor at this point.
Don't quote me with your feelings.

Wanting intimacy in bed with another grown man & doing so for years is an act of homosexuality.
Its not nonsense. Its not a stretch. Its a reasonable conclusion.

You missed the point completely & cant tell when somebody is providing a real world example to back up their claim. This conversation is way over your head. You presented a false claim. I provided a real world example that proved you wrong.

Your point of having to prove they 100% had sex was debunked. Homosexuals or bisexuals don't have to engage in sexual intercouce if they engage, seek, & practice other intimate acts with people they are attracted to.
-If you go on a date with a guy and hold hands. You're gay or bi.
-If you spoon or cuddle with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you make out with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you are physically attracted to other men & want intimacy and physical contact from them in bed, but never act on it, you are still a repressed homosexual or bisexual individual

None of these are outlandish or false claims. None of them involve sex. Its more about who you're attracted to. Your whole argument has been debunked. Go away.

 

[Vergilius]

His mother said that he wasn't very fond of girls after he passed. That's not normal whatsoever.

She was describing his childhood. It's totally normal for boys not to like girls (and vice versa) until they hit puberty or thereabouts. Using it as evidence he was gay is one of the hardest reaches I've seen in a while.

 

[PBAC]

Well yeah ... if you've ever seen a Republican convention.

Far right gang bang in a gay club during pandemic remember much?

 

[Vergilius]

If you can't address any of the valid points made in the conversation get out of the thread.
You're a full blown dishonest actor at this point.
Don't quote me with your feelings.

Wanting intimacy in bed with another grown man & doing so for years is an act of homosexuality.
Its not nonsense. Its not a stretch. Its a reasonable conclusion.

You missed the point completely & cant tell when somebody is providing a real world example to back up their claim. This conversation is way over your head. You presented a false claim. I provided a real world example that proved you wrong.

Your point of having to prove they 100% had sex was debunked. Homosexuals or bisexuals don't have to engage in sexual intercouce if they engage, seek, & practice other intimate acts with people they are attracted to.
-If you go on a date with a guy and hold hands. You're gay or bi.
-If you spoon or cuddle with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you make out with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you are physically attracted to other men & want intimacy and physical contact from them in bed, but never act on it, you are still a repressed homosexual or bisexual individual

None of these are outlandish or false claims. None of them involve sex. Its more about who you're attracted to. Your whole argument has been debunked. Go away.

Not sure about the US in the 1800s, but for much of European history, at least, it was fairly normal for men to share beds and didn't necessarily connotate anything sexual.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Not sure about the US in the 1800s, but for much of European history, at least, it was fairly normal for men to share beds and didn't necessarily connotate anything sexual.

Context. Its not normal for established married men with their own homes to spoon eachother just for the sake of intimacy anywhere.

Not talking limited space, not talking low income, not talking for warmth. We are talking for the sheer love of the game...

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Well yeah ... if you've ever seen a Republican convention.

Far right gang bang in a gay club during pandemic remember much?

Didn't it crash Grinder or one of the gay dating websites in the area or something????
I remember that hitting the news lmao

Next thing you know these guys will be saying, "In the 1800s it was perfectly normal & common place to go on a gay dating website to flirt and hookup with men. As long as no sex actually happened its silly to think they were gay for this."

Lmao

 

[GearSolidMetal]

If you can't address any of the valid points made in the conversation get out of the thread.
You're a full blown dishonest actor at this point.
Don't quote me with your feelings.

'Valid points?'
'My feelings?'
Fact - The entire case that Lincoln was gay is entirely circumstantial.
The entirety of your post history in this thread are points you feel are relevant.
You've posted that over a dozen historians are in the documentary stating their reasoning why they believe Lincoln was gay. You feel that's a relevant point.
I stated a dozen historians is a relatively few & fringe number compared to the 3500 total accredited historians in the United States. I feel that's a relevant counter-point.

'Dishonest actor?'
You do know that means you're accusing me of trolling you, right?
I assure you I haven't.
But based off that Stepmother quote you honestly believe she outed her Stepson as gay.... that's straight up dishonesty... or you're straight up delusional. So which one are you?

Wanting intimacy in bed with another grown man & doing so for years is an act of homosexuality.
Its not nonsense. Its not a stretch. Its a reasonable conclusion.

*Sigh*
Again I already posted the definition of 'intimacy' and apparently you're going by your own sexual definition of the word.

You missed the point completely & cant tell when somebody is providing a real world example to back up their claim. This conversation is way over your head. You presented a false claim. I provided a real world example that proved you wrong.

A real-world example from when?
And what false claim did I present?

Have you not traveled the world? Seen other cultures? Have you not seen how cultures evolve from decade to decade? The old traditions die while new traditions start?

Keep that in mind when that things were drastically different in every aspect two centuries ago. What is bizarre to us about their traditions and even the acts of a few, as well as the they would see our traditions as bizarre.

Under that context, you would see men with a very very close friendship and automatically conclude "oh they're fuckin." And I, who have had close friendships with men, don't automatically make that assumption.

Have I had a friend I'd sleep in the same bed with? Absolutely not. But I wouldn't automatically assume men that do are fucking.... in the 1800s.

Your point of having to prove they 100% had sex was debunked. Homosexuals or bisexuals don't have to engage in sexual intercouce if they engage, seek, & practice other intimate acts with people they are attracted to.

-If you go on a date with a guy and hold hands. You're gay or bi.
-If you spoon or cuddle with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you make out with a guy you're gay or bi
-If you are physically attracted to other men & want intimacy and physical contact from them in bed, but never act on it, you are still a repressed homosexual or bisexual individual

Moving the goalposts aside, what source do you have that Lincoln 'spooned' with his friends in bed?

*What if I'm hanging out with my friend, and he gets drunk, and I have to hold his hand to help him walk?
*What if he passes out and his heart stops, and I have to give him mouth-to-mouth?
*What if I watch a Hollywood movie and an actor takes his shirt off and I appreciate the dedication and discipline to get in such good shape?

What if all these 'If you do _____ you're gay' is just trying to qualify far more men that aren't gay, as gay, in your own eyes?

As far as I'm concerned there's only two qualifiers for homosexuals.
*If you're a guy, and you're in a romantic relationship with a guy, you're gay.
*If you're a guy, and you've had sexual acts with a guy, you're gay.

None of these are outlandish or false claims. None of them involve sex. Its more about who you're attracted to. Your whole argument has been debunked. Go away.

No, its more like you're qualifying everyone that's been tempted into being gay is actually gay.

Teenage years is always a bizarre time in every boy's life, and they may have some homosexual thoughts or fantasies. And by your standards, like 70% of the entire male population of the planet is forever gay til the day they die based off thoughts and feelings from their teenage years.

Don't think most would agree with those standards of gayness.